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C. Deuel vs. E. Reyes 2005 D.C.C.

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  • #16
    ^play it short then. I personally would try to make this, and if it fell id cut the 2.
    That is my "answer"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
      ^play it short then. I personally would try to make this, and if it fell id cut the 2.
      That is my "answer"
      Tyler, from this position your objective should be to move balls out of play, as opposed to putting balls in play. You may say that by banking the 12ball your opponent will be preoccupied with moving the 12ball after you shoot. If you play it short, like you mentioned you then will leave one of two shots that will possibly lose the game for you or put you in more trouble. Banking it long will obviously leave a return bank, with the 7ball as a helping ball to pocket the bank. Agree? Banking it short will leave Reyes two options, and their both good options. Option one, if the 12ball rest on the bottom rail Reyes can kick into the side rail then toward the 12ball with the chance of pocketing the 12ball either straight in or off the 7ball. Also by banking it short Reyes will not only have the kick option but will also have the ability to put the stripe that's positioned cross table into play. This option offers the ability to position the cue ball at the top of the table behind the string of balls positioned on Reyes side of the table. You will then be up table alone, without an escape ball and be forced to take a scratch, or very possibly lose the game with any other shot. Banking the 12ball does look tempting but a shot that should be avoided at just about any expense. If I were your opponent I would be thrilled to see you bank the 12ball for the reasons I explained.

      Shooting toward the 1ball or 7ball insures you that whatever happens there will still be balls on the table that will be difficult for Reyes to run, especially if you move another ball some what out of play. And who knows...you just might get away clean.

      Dr. Bill

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      • #18
        Originally posted by wincardona View Post
        Tyler, from this position your objective should be to move balls out of play, as opposed to putting balls in play. You may say that by banking the 12ball your opponent will be preoccupied with moving the 12ball after you shoot. If you play it short, like you mentioned you then will leave one of two shots that will possibly lose the game for you or put you in more trouble. Banking it long will obviously leave a return bank, with the 7ball as a helping ball to pocket the bank. Agree? Banking it short will leave Reyes two options, and their both good options. Option one, if the 12ball rest on the bottom rail Reyes can kick into the side rail then toward the 12ball with the chance of pocketing the 12ball either straight in or off the 7ball. Also by banking it short Reyes will not only have the kick option but will also have the ability to put the stripe that's positioned cross table into play. This option offers the ability to position the cue ball at the top of the table behind the string of balls positioned on Reyes side of the table. You will then be up table alone, without an escape ball and be forced to take a scratch, or very possibly lose the game with any other shot. Banking the 12ball does look tempting but a shot that should be avoided at just about any expense. If I were your opponent I would be thrilled to see you bank the 12ball for the reasons I explained.

        Shooting toward the 1ball or 7ball insures you that whatever happens there will still be balls on the table that will be difficult for Reyes to run, especially if you move another ball some what out of play. And who knows...you just might get away clean.

        Dr. Bill
        This position serves as a perfect example of the reasoning Jersey Red used to play a shot that required moving balls without a certain outcome.....when he said....I don't know where their going, but their not staying there.

        Dr. Bill

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        • #19
          Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
          What in the world is wrong with banking the 12 pocket speed and just sticking him?
          Two of the overhead shots seem to indicate the 2 ball will be straight in.
          Rod.
          Rod.

          Rodney Stephens.
          (e-mail) rod.stephens0105@att.net(e-mail) #713-973-0503 is now working

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          • #20
            Corey did bank the 12 ball and he put the cueball behind the 2 ball.

            P.S. It was the opinion of both commentators that the 2 ball passed the 11 ball.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
              Corey did bank the 12 ball and he put the cueball behind the 2 ball.

              P.S. It was the opinion of both commentators that the 2 ball passed the 11 ball.

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              Perfect control with the cue ball was needed for that shot, plus positioning the 12ball was also ..very crucial. I actually like the shot but in this particular lay out with the score the way it is...not my choice.

              Dr. Bill

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                Corey did bank the 12 ball and he put the cueball behind the 2 ball.

                P.S. It was the opinion of both commentators that the 2 ball passed the 11 ball.

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                Please note how much stronger this shot is with the 12 hanging close to Corey's pocket, as opposed to if he had made the 12 -- unless of course he is straight in on the 2 (doesn't look it).
                "One Pocket, it's an epidemic and there ain't no cure."
                -- Strawberry Brooks

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by wincardona View Post
                  Tyler, from this position your objective should be to move balls out of play, as opposed to putting balls in play. You may say that by banking the 12ball your opponent will be preoccupied with moving the 12ball after you shoot. If you play it short, like you mentioned you then will leave one of two shots that will possibly lose the game for you or put you in more trouble. Banking it long will obviously leave a return bank, with the 7ball as a helping ball to pocket the bank. Agree? Banking it short will leave Reyes two options, and their both good options. Option one, if the 12ball rest on the bottom rail Reyes can kick into the side rail then toward the 12ball with the chance of pocketing the 12ball either straight in or off the 7ball. Also by banking it short Reyes will not only have the kick option but will also have the ability to put the stripe that's positioned cross table into play. This option offers the ability to position the cue ball at the top of the table behind the string of balls positioned on Reyes side of the table. You will then be up table alone, without an escape ball and be forced to take a scratch, or very possibly lose the game with any other shot. Banking the 12ball does look tempting but a shot that should be avoided at just about any expense. If I were your opponent I would be thrilled to see you bank the 12ball for the reasons I explained.

                  Shooting toward the 1ball or 7ball insures you that whatever happens there will still be balls on the table that will be difficult for Reyes to run, especially if you move another ball some what out of play. And who knows...you just might get away clean.

                  Dr. Bill
                  Thanks for your reply

                  Here is how i'd be planning my shot to come out, assuming the 2 doesn't pass. Of course, the 12 may not end up right there, I myself am sure to get that on the end rail though.... just something I never have a problem with. But yes, the kicks are a big problem with this shot. The only thing I want to politely mention in this conversation is that I feel the shots on the 1 and 7 may lay a little more awkward than we think, especially from the rail. I do agree though my thinking there was not good.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by tylerdurden; 04-03-2013, 08:33 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                    Cory is up 6-2 this game and it's his shot. What would you do?
                    I would probably try something like - play the 1 off the left side of the 7. Send the 1 toward my pocket. Shooting with a little draw and the cue ball most likely hits the 7 as their both coming off their rails. A small chance of kicking the 7 toward my pocket also. I'm not playing Reyes in a tounament, I'm just playing a friend for fun and want to see what would happen.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
                      Thanks for your reply

                      Here is how i'd be planning my shot to come out, assuming the 2 doesn't pass. Of course, the 12 may not end up right there, I myself am sure to get that on the end rail though.... just something I never have a problem with. But yes, the kicks are a big problem with this shot. The only thing I want to politely mention in this conversation is that I feel the shots on the 1 and 7 may lay a little more awkward than we think, especially from the rail. I do agree though my thinking there was not good.
                      Lets go back to the original position before Cory shot. In order for Cory to even begin thinking about playing the shot that he opted to shoot the angle of the shot had to be perfectly in line to get the results he got. That's for openers, then he had to be able to execute the shot perfectly...just the way he did....Keep in mind had he made the bank he would of still been in trouble, any other result other than the one we're looking at would not of been good. The key to the shot that Cory opted to shoot was in the speed of the 12ball (which needed to end up by the pocket, makeable from anywhere on the table and the cue ball must be in back of the 2ball.)

                      Your shot doesn't do what the requirements are to choose the shot as a good option. My contention with the shot choice is two fold. The position of the balls on the table and the score of the game. Secondly, the likelihood of achieving the desired result needed to make this option viable.

                      Your option Imo is challenging the sound principles that we need to employ in situations like this one and in one's similar to this one. Sorry Tyler for being so direct but solid play will get you the results needed more often than spectacular play will. Cory is a spectacular player that challenges sound principles more than he should, Imo. Which has been evidenced with his soft break playing 9ball and his wide open break playing one pocket However, there will be times when his occasional unorthodox style of play will benefit him. Not to say that this was unorthodox ...just a little bit of a stretch.

                      Dr. Bill

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                      • #26
                        There's a clear path to a rail-first kick on the 1B (between the 2B & 11B). Any opinions on kicking the 1B to the end rail & dropping in behind the 7B? Pace of the CB is critical of course, but even I should pull that one off.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by WhatWouldWojoDo View Post
                          I would probably try something like - play the 1 off the left side of the 7. Send the 1 toward my pocket. Shooting with a little draw and the cue ball most likely hits the 7 as their both coming off their rails. A small chance of kicking the 7 toward my pocket also. I'm not playing Reyes in a tounament, I'm just playing a friend for fun and want to see what would happen.
                          Not a bad thought..playing a friend. Actually I like your shot but shooting the 1ball into the left side of the 7ball is a little more risky and difficult than shooting it into the right side of the 7ball. Allow me to explain my thinking on your choice as opposed to my suggestion. Considering the position of the cue ball (2" from rail) and the distance needed to travel before contacting the 1ball (8 feet) you should be concerned with maintaining some control with all balls, especially the cue ball. By hitting more of the 1ball with a slight elevation you will then be able to control the cue ball much better. Plus it's an easier hit when aiming at a full ball as opposed to aiming for a cut with a ball. Especially from the distance referenced As far as you trying to get the 1ball going toward your pocket off the carom would be Imo ..over kill.. you don't need that with the score the way it is, and also with the degree of difficulty that hit carries.

                          I hope that I helped you and maybe next time you play your friend you'll do better. Just in case you need it.

                          Dr. Bill

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mosconiac View Post
                            There's a clear path to a rail-first kick on the 1B (between the 2B & 11B). Any opinions on kicking the 1B to the end rail & dropping in behind the 7B? Pace of the CB is critical of course, but even I should pull that one off.
                            I don't know what picture you're looking at but from the picture i'm looking at your shot is not available. Granted your option (if available) is a good one especially considering the availability of other options and the degree of the difficulty they carry. To execute your option Cory would have to hit some where close to the center diamond on the side rail and it doesn't look to me that he can hit close to where he needs to hit to make that a good option. As far as the playability of the shot is concerned providing it's available is inviting. Also the results needed to make the option a good one...in terms of creating congestion with the balls is Imo, also there. Your option would be my first choice if it was available, just the score of the game itself would dictate that, not to mention the degree of difficulty with the remaining options.

                            Dr. Bill

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cowboy Dennis View Post
                              P.S. It was the opinion of both commentators that the 2 ball passed the 11 ball.
                              Originally posted by tylerdurden View Post
                              Here is how i'd be planning my shot to come out, assuming the 2 doesn't pass.
                              The 2 pretty much passed the 11, at least in the opinions of the commentators.

                              Dennis

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                              • #30

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