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WWYD from match last night

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  • WWYD from match last night

    Score is 7-6 you. The 6 is by your pocket. Cue-ball is t-hooked in the corner.

    WWYD??

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    Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

  • #2
    WWYD from match last night

    To be clear... You cannot see the 6 OR the 14.
    Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mkbtank View Post
      Score is 7-6 you. The 6 is by your pocket. Cue-ball is t-hooked in the corner.

      WWYD??

      [ATTACH]9743[/ATTACH]
      Assuming the 6 ball is adjacent your pocketing hole, and not your kitchen hole: (table markings imply kitchen hole).

      I think you have to accept that you are in a tough spot and need to minimize the damage while still putting yourself in an advantageous spot.

      As such.....I would take a foul, rolling the cue ball to my opponent's long rail just before the center pocket.

      My spotted (foul) ball appears to allow at least one ball on/close to the spot, to go in my pocket, but not my opponent's, while still providing blocking cover on the 6 ball.

      Rolling the cue ball to this location forces my opponent to kick at the 6, thereby only playing a defensive passive shot, leaving me still in control.

      Given the subsequent 6-6 ball count I am happy to give up a foul ball here.

      Bernie.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by bernie p View Post
        Assuming the 6 ball is adjacent your pocketing hole, and not your kitchen hole: (table markings imply kitchen hole).

        I think you have to accept that you are in a tough spot and need to minimize the damage while still putting yourself in an advantageous spot.

        As such.....I would take a foul, rolling the cue ball to my opponent's long rail just before the center pocket.

        My spotted (foul) ball appears to allow at least one ball on/close to the spot, to go in my pocket, but not my opponent's, while still providing blocking cover on the 6 ball.

        Rolling the cue ball to this location forces my opponent to kick at the 6, thereby only playing a defensive passive shot, leaving me still in control.

        Given the subsequent 6-6 ball count I am happy to give up a foul ball here.

        Bernie.
        bernie if i understood your post hear is how you left it
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        • #5
          I got nothin' after reading Bernie's post. Seems about the best you can do.

          Kicks are out of the question, taking a foul where the ball lies doesn't help...good call from BP

          Comment


          • #6
            Bernies shot is the first shot most people will see and is a good option. However if you take an intentional and touch the cue ball, what is your opponent going to do? If he takes one back now there are 3 balls on the spot and you are both on 1 foul. I take another foul and now there are 4 balls on the spot. your opponent takes another foull. Now there are 5 balls spotted and you are both on 2 fouls.... NOW I kick 2 rails at the row of spotted balls, at least 2 or 3 balls are going to my side and Im possibly going to make something because of the position of the 6 ball. The cue ball goes off the spotted balls and goes up table on my opponents side putting him in deep trouble. PLUS Im still ahead 5 to 4 in ball count... By taking the foul like this Im going to end up with a 5 to 4 lead instead of being tied 6 to 6 and I will have a much stronger table position this way

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by lll View Post
              bernie if i understood your post hear is how you left it
              [ATTACH]9744[/ATTACH]
              Larry
              My next shot. Most every body's next shot.

              Rod.
              Attached Files
              Rod.

              Rodney Stephens.
              (e-mail) rod.stephens0105@att.net(e-mail) #713-973-0503 is now working

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by onepockethacker View Post
                Bernies shot is the first shot most people will see and is a good option. However if you take an intentional and touch the cue ball, what is your opponent going to do? If he takes one back now there are 3 balls on the spot and you are both on 1 foul. I take another foul and now there are 4 balls on the spot. your opponent takes another foull. Now there are 5 balls spotted and you are both on 2 fouls.... NOW I kick 2 rails at the row of spotted balls, at least 2 or 3 balls are going to my side and Im possibly going to make something because of the position of the 6 ball. The cue ball goes off the spotted balls and goes up table on my opponents side putting him in deep trouble. PLUS Im still ahead 5 to 4 in ball count... By taking the foul like this Im going to end up with a 5 to 4 lead instead of being tied 6 to 6 and I will have a much stronger table position this way
                Rob,

                Good call....I like your thinking.

                Fwiw, the worst case corner hook (frozen deep to the rubber on a diamond table) will barely allow you to hit just above your opponent's side pocket (approx 4" above).

                To execute the shot as you described, the optimum cue ball path angle to go into the row of 5 ball is approx 3/4 to 1/2 diamond short of your opponent's pocket......so depending on how deep you are hooked, might eliminate that option.

                I set this shot up as you described and hit it a few times. The odds are in your favor to shoot this shot well.....but there is a low % possibility of scratching in the lower kitchen pocket after making contact with the stack, dependent on which of the 5 balls you hit. Quite often you a glancing off of more than 1 ball, so the cue ball path is somewhat unpredictable.

                Given the option of either taking the intentional foul, or shooting your shot, I'm not sure that I would even want to tempt fate on losing the game on a 3 consecutive foul situation.

                What do you think?

                Bernie.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by androd View Post
                  Larry
                  My next shot. Most every body's next shot.

                  Rod.
                  Rod,

                  I would agree with you except Mitch's original position of the 6 ball on his table layout would allow most decent players to cut in the 6 after your reply. (Larry's location of the 6 ball on his table layout interpretation is in a slightly tougher location).

                  Bernie.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bernie p View Post
                    Rob,

                    Good call....I like your thinking.

                    Fwiw, the worst case corner hook (frozen deep to the rubber on a diamond table) will barely allow you to hit just above your opponent's side pocket (approx 4" above).

                    To execute the shot as you described, the optimum cue ball path angle to go into the row of 5 ball is approx 3/4 to 1/2 diamond short of your opponent's pocket......so depending on how deep you are hooked, might eliminate that option.

                    I set this shot up as you described and hit it a few times. The odds are in your favor to shoot this shot well.....but there is a low % possibility of scratching in the lower kitchen pocket after making contact with the stack, dependent on which of the 5 balls you hit. Quite often you a glancing off of more than 1 ball, so the cue ball path is somewhat unpredictable.

                    Given the option of either taking the intentional foul, or shooting your shot, I'm not sure that I would even want to tempt fate on losing the game on a 3 consecutive foul situation.

                    What do you think?

                    Bernie.
                    Bernie, You have stolen my thunder. I was just about to write a similar response. I like Rob's idea but it depends greatly on the depth of the corner hook and if your opponent can hook you even deeper taking the two rail shot completely away. If that can happen you can't play Rob's shot against a tough and thoughtful opponent.

                    Your shot looks best but you need to position the cue ball to guard against the bank by placing the cue ball for the double kiss on the second ball on the spot. That location is almost one half diamond below the side pocket and on the side rail. From there it is very difficult to get away from the double kiss and you still have the six ball covered.

                    Tom

                    "Controlled Aggression" trwirth369@gmail.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      WWYD from match last night

                      Ok. More info! You are hooked from seeing the 14 or the 6, but not deeper than that into the pocket......
                      Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bernie p View Post
                        Rob,

                        Good call....I like your thinking.

                        Fwiw, the worst case corner hook (frozen deep to the rubber on a diamond table) will barely allow you to hit just above your opponent's side pocket (approx 4" above).

                        To execute the shot as you described, the optimum cue ball path angle to go into the row of 5 ball is approx 3/4 to 1/2 diamond short of your opponent's pocket......so depending on how deep you are hooked, might eliminate that option.

                        I set this shot up as you described and hit it a few times. The odds are in your favor to shoot this shot well.....but there is a low % possibility of scratching in the lower kitchen pocket after making contact with the stack, dependent on which of the 5 balls you hit. Quite often you a glancing off of more than 1 ball, so the cue ball path is somewhat unpredictable.

                        Given the option of either taking the intentional foul, or shooting your shot, I'm not sure that I would even want to tempt fate on losing the game on a 3 consecutive foul situation.

                        What do you think?

                        Bernie.
                        I have probably shot this 2 rail kick into the row of spotted balls over 500 times in actual game play and have never fouled. Even If you are deeper hooked than the original layout shows all you have to do is a simple masse into a LARGE target area. If you take the foul as you suggest you are flipping a coin on who wins the game as you have no real advantage in score or position. My shot gives you a 5 to 4 lead and a huge table position and because of where the 6 ball is I might run out on the shot.... The goal is to win the game. By taking the foul like you and Tom suggest you are at best 50/50. You are saying you dont want to risk losing on a 3 foul. Whats the difference how you lose, a loss is a loss. You are making it sound like you have a huge score or position advantage and you dont want to lose the game on a risky shot. You are in a tough spot but with a little advanced thinking and imagination you can turn the bad spot into a situation you will probably win 80% of the time.
                        Last edited by onepockethacker; 04-10-2014, 01:02 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think the shot you choose depends on how deep you are in the pocket.
                          Can you see the left side or both sides of the 14 ball?

                          A very thin cut on the 14 toward your pocket is not out of the question. We have all shot this shot many times. If you miss the ball entirely you are not really giving up much. If you hit it well you are golden.

                          A two rail on the 14 is possible with 3 rails on the cue ball.

                          If you have to take a foul Hackers' approach is the way to go.

                          Bill S.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            WWYD from match last night

                            Ok, so indeed it looks like Rob gets the cookie, although I only took one foul, and not two. I tapped the ball where it was, and my opponent did the same. That brought us to 6-5 with 3 balls on the spot. (I hated coming off the hill based on wwyd's earlier this month but felt I had to from there). I then shot the two railer into the spotted balls with right hand English. (I have always liked this shot). Knocked 2 balls to my side and left the cue uptable by the short rail on his side and left him in a very tough spot IMO. He then tried to cut the head ball (which had stayed in the center) and missed the shot and sold out.
                            Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              WWYD from match last night

                              From memory this is what I left him after the kick. He tried to cut the 3 and sold out a bank on the 3 after missing. I banked the 3 and got out.

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                              Mitch needs to remember to play the score and that it's better to win than to look like a hero.

                              Comment

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