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  • Complimentary Angles and Complimentary Englis

    Maybe Patrick, and I'm NOT trying to start an ELABORATE debate on this topic!

    What do you and the group you represent feel the "complimentary angle" for a cue ball to contact a cushion is, and, what would be the best "complimentary English" to give the CB the best, "natural" forward roll?

    P.S. if you can, if you decide to reply. Can we keep the "ultra" science lingo to a minimum, since there's some that feel I'm a slow learner!
    Last edited by mr3cushion; 08-24-2014, 08:32 PM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by mr3cushion View Post
    Maybe Patrick, and I'm NOT trying to start an ELABORATE debate on this topic!

    What do you and the group you represent feel the "complimentary angle" for a cue ball to contact a cushion is, and, what would be the best "complimentary English" to give the CB the best, "natural" forward roll?

    P.S. if you can, if you decide to reply. Can we keep the "ultra" science lingo to a minimum, since there's some that feel I'm a slow learner!
    The group I represent? I wouldn't belong to a group that would have me.

    Dr. Dave explains how to get "natural running English" in this video.

    I explain the same thing below (posted long ago on AzB).

    pj
    chgo

    Gears have teeth, so they don't rub against each other. That's why the "gearing english" metaphor is used - it describes exactly enough outside english so the CB's surface rolls across the OB's surface like a ball rolling across the table with no slipping, sliding or rubbing (like two gears meshing).

    There's a simple way to judge the amount of outside spin that will be gearing english for any cut angle (or perfect running english on a rail): visualize the point on the CB that's opposite the CB/OB (or CB/rail) contact point, then offset the tip a little less than halfway (about 40%) to that point. Here's a drawing llustrating the method for running english on an object ball and on a rail:


    [ATTACH]23883[/ATTACH]
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Patrick Johnson; 08-24-2014, 08:45 PM.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
      The group I represent? I wouldn't belong to a group that would have me.

      Dr. Dave explains how to get "natural running English" in this video.

      I explain the same thing below (posted long ago on AzB).

      pj
      chgo

      Gears have teeth, so they don't rub against each other. That's why the "gearing english" metaphor is used - it describes exactly enough outside english so the CB's surface rolls across the OB's surface like a ball rolling across the table with no slipping, sliding or rubbing (like two gears meshing).

      There's a simple way to judge the amount of outside spin that will be gearing english for any cut angle (or perfect running english on a rail): visualize the point on the CB that's opposite the CB/OB (or CB/rail) contact point, then offset the tip a little less than halfway (about 40%) to that CB point. Here's a drawing llustrating the method for running english on a rail:


      [ATTACH]20573[/ATTACH]
      Patrick; I guess you started your post before my, P.S.

      Just, explain, in PLAIN English! What's is the most "natural" angle, (in degrees) to attack the cushion and with exactly, what English, SIMPLY PUT!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by mr3cushion View Post
        Patrick; I guess you started your post before my, P.S.

        Just, explain, in PLAIN English! What's is the most "natural" angle, (in degrees) to attack the cushion and with exactly, what English, SIMPLY PUT!
        I don't know what "the most natural angle of attack" is - or even what that means.

        But it's well known that "natural running English" is created by adding outside spin with the tip contacting the CB at 2/5 the distance to the CB's "opposite contact point" (see my previous answer and Dr. Dave's video).

        Nobody said there would be pop quizzes...

        pj
        chgo

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
          I don't know what "the most natural angle of attack" is - or even what that means.

          But it's well known that "natural running English" is created by adding outside spin with the tip contacting the CB at 2/5 the distance to the CB's "opposite contact point" (see my previous answer and Dr. Dave's video).

          Nobody said there would be pop quizzes...

          pj
          chgo
          Maybe someone else will chime in, to enlighten both of us.

          Comment


          • #6
            Patrick; Here's an example of my question in this thread!



            You have 3 CB positions on the tables, what is the MOST "complimentary angle" in to the cushion. And, what "complimentary English" would you use?

            While I was at it, I decided to include the, CORRECT numbers for playing a simple, "5" corner system. I left the CB and 3rd cushion numbering in a decimal point fashion, but, as we do in 3C, you can divide each diamond into, tenths, 10, 20, 30, 40....

            I hope the diagram clears up some of the confusion for both of us.
            Last edited by mr3cushion; 09-27-2014, 07:31 PM.

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            • #7
              Apparently, there is some gravity you are applying to the word "complimentary" that is not intuitive. Please define.

              [Edit: Are you asking which one of the CB positions can yield an angle-in, angle-out (i.e., complimentary angles) without applying any English?]

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              • #8
                Originally posted by straightback View Post
                Apparently, there is some gravity you are applying to the word "complimentary" that is not intuitive. Please define.

                [Edit: Are you asking which one of the CB positions can yield an angle-in, angle-out (i.e., complimentary angles) without applying any English?]
                NO, WITH English!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by mr3cushion View Post
                  ...what is the MOST "complimentary angle" in to the cushion. And, what "complimentary English" would you use?
                  I don't understand those terms, Bill, so I can't answer.

                  pj
                  chgo

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Patrick Johnson View Post
                    I don't understand those terms, Bill, so I can't answer.

                    pj
                    chgo
                    Patrick, it's too bad you never had the opportunity to have any conversations with Freddy! He would of brought up this, (semi) scientific theory eventually, relating to playing position in banks! You won't find it his books or DVD's, something we learned over 50 years ago.

                    I WON"T go into GREAT detail, but simply put, EVERY angle a CB travels into a cushion has a CORRECT English that should be applied to the CB.
                    Last edited by mr3cushion; 08-25-2014, 12:29 AM.

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                    • #11
                      You dodged my question. However, by and large, most every kick requires some form of running English to obtain angle-in, angle-out. The exceptions are shallow angles, such as your CB position "A."
                      Last edited by straightback; 08-25-2014, 01:00 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by straightback View Post
                        You dodged my question. However, by and large, most every kick requires some form of running English to obtain angle-in, angle-out. The exceptions are shallow angles, such as your CB position "A."

                        What question do YOU feel I dodged? Example "A" is an "acute" angle into the cushion, do YOU feel this "angle" doesn't need to have, "complimentary" English?

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                        • #13
                          Kindly define "complimentary angle" and "complimentary English." Damn, I meant angle "B" when I responded a minute ago - those type of shallow angles do not require much if any English for AIAO.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by straightback View Post
                            Kindly define "complimentary angle" and "complimentary English." Damn, I meant angle "B" when I responded a minute ago - those type of shallow angles do not require much if any English for AIAO.
                            The MOST "complimentary" angle to contact a cushion is at a 45 degree angle, some what the same as a, "half-ball" hit is the "purest" form of a "carom," equal parts of the ball... I believe the SAME effect happens at the 45 degree angle, not too much and not too little of the "face" of the CB is making contact with the "edge" of the cushion. And this angle IMO, requires maximum, 3 or 9 O'clock English to make the CB take the correct angle according to, "diamond systems!" The MORE, "acute" or "obtuse" the angle into the 1st cushion, the LESS you apply English towards the 12 O'clock position on the CB. This is why I decided to ADD the, "diamond system" numbers to the diagram!

                            Now, like I said, in the FIRST sentence of this thread, "I'm NOT looking for a, ELABORATE debate on the, "scientific" aspect of this theory!

                            You can prove or disprove my theory by testing it yourself at the table, or NOT.
                            Last edited by mr3cushion; 08-26-2014, 11:24 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mr3cushion View Post
                              The MOST "complimentary" angle to contact a cushion is at a 45 degree angle, some what the same as a, "half-ball" hit is the "purest" form of a "carom," equal parts of the ball... I believe the SAME effect happens at the 45 degree angle, not too much and not too little of the "face" of the CB is making contact with the "edge" of the cushion. And this angle IMO, requires maximum, 3 or 9 O'clock English to make the CB take the correct angle according to, "diamond systems!" The MORE, "acute" or "obtuse" the angle into the 1st cushion, the LESS you apply English towards the 12 O'clock position on the CB.

                              Now, like I said, in the FIRST sentence of this thread, "I'm NOT looking for a, ELABORATE debate on the, "scientific" aspect of this theory!

                              You can prove or disprove my theory by testing it yourself at the table, or NOT.
                              I'm not trying to disprove anything, just trying to understand your question. On a pool table, no one-rail kick requires 3 or 9 o'clock English to create AIAO, unless it is struck extremely hard.

                              Are you talking about multiple-rail kicks and keeping them on-system, perhaps?

                              BTW, thank you for imparting your billiard knowledge - it comes in handy for 1p. In fact, while I love Reyes, some of his magic is demystified once you understand a bit of 3C! I'm sure you probably feel the same way when you see pool players ogle over some his CB control.

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