pool an offensive game

[wincardona]

Pool is an offensive game, plain and simple. Your best players are offensive players regardless of the game you're playing..8ball..9ball.. rotation..bank pool..straight pool..one pocket.. and even "PILL POOL"

Defense in pool is clearly a factor in rounding out our game, more so in one pocket than in all the other games, however, defense can only aid you so much. The parity in today's one pocket is more today than in any time before, simply because the players are more informed and the decision making process is easier because of the information readily available to all players through tapes, commentary, and the many more one pocket tournaments that are played compared to years past.

For those who are looking for a secret recipe to improve their game will take a while finding it.:sorry The information available through tapes, tournaments, instructors, and on this site is the best available. As an aspiring player you should take advantage of it and develop an understanding of your own game and use whatever information that you have acquired in an intelligent way, if you can do that then imo you're off and running.

Artie was the best thinking player of his time, make no mistake about that, however, like I mentioned above, defense can only take you so far because of all the unmanageable situations that constantly appear through un-foreseen things that happen during a game. The solutions to most situations are lucid, for the most part, attributable to information that has been passed through the years. If I were to choose a coach for assistance with a complex situation I would choose Artie, however, the information acquired would only aid me in my pursuit and in no way would it guarantee me the win because I would be playing against another well informed player who just might strike balls better than me.

Dr. Bill

 

[NH Steve]

I agree 100%. I "move well" but am "weak to the pocket". What that translates to when I play a player that shoots straighter than me is that I have to "beat them to the shot" two or three times, meanwhile not letting them run out on me. That's very, very tough and I cannot do it every game. Yes, I have an edge in moving, but what it is, a 20-30-40 percent edge? It is certainly not a 200-300% edge in this age with so much information about One Pocket being available, and the game being as popular as it is.

But it's still fun trying

 

[keoneyo]

About your theme of defensive play. I heard that Frank McGown had played an exceptional game of defense in 14.1. He would run some balls and put you in incredible safe positions. He also had perfected the slow game where he put guys like Wimpy in dire straits according to author R.A. Dyer.
Even though he did run 150 on Balsis he was known for his defensive game so I hear. This seems counter to the game of 14.1.
I know Lou had a match with him. Maybe he can elaborate.

I know in my personal experience the aggressive player is much more admired and the mover is considered "sneaky". I guess when it comes down to it the W/L rate is the best determining factor.
For my cup of tea I prefer a Nick Varner (the wedge master) to someone like Scott Frost.

 

[jrhendy]

Pool is an offensive game, plain and simple. Your best players are offensive players regardless of the game you're playing..8ball..9ball.. rotation..bank pool..straight pool..one pocket.. and even "PILL POOL"

Defense in pool is clearly a factor in rounding out our game, more so in one pocket than in all the other games, however, defense can only aid you so much. The parity in today's one pocket is more today than in any time before, simply because the players are more informed and the decision making process is easier because of the information readily available to all players through tapes, commentary, and the many more one pocket tournaments that are played compared to years past.

For those who are looking for a secret recipe to improve their game will take a while finding it.:sorry The information available through tapes, tournaments, instructors, and on this site is the best available. As an aspiring player you should take advantage of it and develop an understanding of your own game and use whatever information that you have acquired in an intelligent way, if you can do that then imo you're off and running.

Artie was the best thinking player of his time, make no mistake about that, however, like I mentioned above, defense can only take you so far because of all the unmanageable situations that constantly appear through un-foreseen things that happen during a game. The solutions to most situations are lucid, for the most part, attributable to information that has been passed through the years. If I were to choose a coach for assistance with a complex situation I would choose Artie, however, the information acquired would only aid me in my pursuit and in no way would it guarantee me the win because I would be playing against another well informed player who just might strike balls better than me.

Dr. Bill

I have to agree with pretty much everything here. The bottom line is you have to get to eight before the other guy and that is offense.

Good defense, more often than not, is what gets you a chance to take that offensive shot.

What experience gets you is shot selection, meaning when and where to take that offensive shot at the most optimum time. This should also take into consideration your own confidence level on the offensive shot you are choosing and even knowing your opponents game for the shot you might leave if you miss your shot.

Shot selection, when and where, would be a whole different thread. It could include skill and confidence level, opponent, ball count and many other factors.

 

[tylerdurden]

That was very well put bill, and I agree with pretty much everything you said.

To take it a step further, I think getting too defensive is like a disease. I have been on both ends with my game. When you get into a defensive head space, it permeates through your entire body, and when you do finally get a shot, you are stuck in that head space and paralyzed. The opposite is true when you are thinking aggressively.

I also think there is a very important distinction between an offensive player who is playing defense, and a defensive one who is playing defense. The offensive player can still effectively play defense and keep in that good aggressive head space, just in a more coiled way, like a snake ready to strike. This is in contrast to a defensive head space where you are shriveled up, for lack of a better term.

 

[beatle]

all sports and games are won by offense. but defense is there to limit the effectiveness of ones offense. so the best defensive players who can also run balls wins.

in olden days when we played on 5 by 10 tens then it was balanced out except for against world beaters. and basing your game by what they do is a sure way to lose.

overall when the champs play, offense wins, when just good players play the better defense wins as long as the other players offense isnt ridiculously stronger. if it is then you get weight. if you dont then you are a donator/ sucker.

 

[Scrzbill]

Pool is an offensive game, plain and simple. Your best players are offensive players regardless of the game you're playing..8ball..9ball.. rotation..bank pool..straight pool..one pocket.. and even "PILL POOL"

Artie was the best thinking player of his time, make no mistake about that,
Dr. Bill

The only time I saw Artie play was when he played John. Did he always take two or three minutes to decide what to shoot?

 

[Tom Wirth]

Dr. Bill, Of course you are correct. One Pocket has evolved into a very aggressive game. In great part to the knowledge that has been past on by the greats of the past few decades and in no small part to the videos which are available which weren't during the time we were developing our games. Your insightful commentary within these videos has been a significant part of the education of the young guns of One Pocket. More solid players are playing the game than ever before and part of the reason for that is found in the current rules of 9 Ball.

The rules of nine ball have forced players to learn to kick accurately and do it with touch and an understanding of the percentages associated with that kick shot. Kick shots, which are the prerequisite to the learning of multi rail banks have taught players a new dimension to playing pool in general. This is most evidenced by the magical play of Efren Reyes. Nine ball has also pushed many players to One Pocket because of the inherent volatility of the game. Players who understand this are gravitating to One Pocket where the outcome relies more on the quality of the play as apposed to the possible lucky roll.

I wish to add one more thing to the astute comments you have made. Aggressive play does not refer only to the ability to run balls and make great shots. Aggressive play is also a strategic approach to the game. Finding inspiring ways to reposition the balls and turn defense into offensive is a large part of this aggressiveness. This strategy need not require great shot making skills but it helps. What is most important to this ability come with the recognition of what each situation makes available. This takes imagination, and imagination must be nurtured through practice. So practice expanding your imagination.

Some players when confronting a defensive situation search for the easiest, or maybe the most one dimensional answer to the problem, where there may be a far more effective shot which completely turns the tables on your opponent. This too is aggressive One Pocket. These shots may carry a bit more risk or strong cueing skills, but not always.

I've been quiet about my current endeavors but I'm very close to the completion of a book on this very subject. As you already know, the title of this work is "One Pocket, a game of controlled aggression". I started this work more or less for my own amusement but as it has progressed over the months this work has grown into something more. I have no house hold name like Artie, or Scott but those who do know me know that I have a firm understanding of this game which has been developed over a period spanning over four decades. For those interested it will soon be available in spiral form.

Tom

 

[petie]

I have known a few offensive pool players.

 

[gulfportdoc]

Dr. Bill, Of course you are correct. One Pocket has evolved into a very aggressive game. ...

... I started this work more or less for my own amusement but as it has progressed over the months this work has grown into something more. I have no house hold name like Artie, or Scott but those who do know me know that I have a firm understanding of this game which has been developed over a period spanning over four decades. For those interested it will soon be available in spiral form. Tom

Real solid follow-up to Cardone's post. I'll be anxious to read your book.

But Artie is not a "household name". Scott is a household name, but only in pooldom. You're not likely to make a profit on your endeavor, but I understand why you're doing it, and kudos to you!!

Best~
Doc

 

[mr3cushion]

Doc; I want to pose, just one question to everyone.

How did all the great "straight" shooters over the years, (I'm not going to mention all their names) lose playing Artie, if "offence" is the way to go?

They all couldn't have been helpless, playing, "defense!"

He played more than anyone with the, #1,2 ("Bugs") player in the world in their prime, and won 90% of the time. Only RA at that time had as much fire power playing one pocket as Bugs!

 

[lll]

Dr. Bill, Of course you are correct. One Pocket has evolved into a very aggressive game. In great part to the knowledge that has been past on by the greats of the past few decades and in no small part to the videos which are available which weren't during the time we were developing our games. Your insightful commentary within these videos has been a significant part of the education of the young guns of One Pocket. More solid players are playing the game than ever before and part of the reason for that is found in the current rules of 9 Ball.

The rules of nine ball have forced players to learn to kick accurately and do it with touch and an understanding of the percentages associated with that kick shot. Kick shots, which are the prerequisite to the learning of multi rail banks have taught players a new dimension to playing pool in general. This is most evidenced by the magical play of Efren Reyes. Nine ball has also pushed many players to One Pocket because of the inherent volatility of the game. Players who understand this are gravitating to One Pocket where the outcome relies more on the quality of the play as apposed to the possible lucky roll.

I wish to add one more thing to the astute comments you have made. Aggressive play does not refer only to the ability to run balls and make great shots. Aggressive play is also a strategic approach to the game. Finding inspiring ways to reposition the balls and turn defense into offensive is a large part of this aggressiveness. This strategy need not require great shot making skills but it helps. What is most important to this ability come with the recognition of what each situation makes available. This takes imagination, and imagination must be nurtured through practice. So practice expanding your imagination.

Some players when confronting a defensive situation search for the easiest, or maybe the most one dimensional answer to the problem, where there may be a far more effective shot which completely turns the tables on your opponent. This too is aggressive One Pocket. These shots may carry a bit more risk or strong cueing skills, but not always.

I've been quiet about my current endeavors but I'm very close to the completion of a book on this very subject. As you already know, the title of this work is "One Pocket, a game of controlled aggression". I started this work more or less for my own amusement but as it has progressed over the months this work has grown into something more. I have no house hold name like Artie, or Scott but those who do know me know that I have a firm understanding of this game which has been developed over a period spanning over four decades. For those interested it will soon be available in spiral form.

Tom

tom
your points above are worth emphasizing(not just what i bolded)
but as i watch players or play against a stranger i look for what i call primary/secondary/tertiary level shots
what i mean is as an example
move a ball to your side hide behind the stack
move ball to your side freeze on the rail or a ball or in the side of the stack
combo bank or carom into balls to move several balls to your side AND freeze to the rail and a ball
depending what they choose lets me know how many barrels i should shoot.....

 

[lfigueroa]

About your theme of defensive play. I heard that Frank McGown had played an exceptional game of defense in 14.1. He would run some balls and put you in incredible safe positions. He also had perfected the slow game where he put guys like Wimpy in dire straits according to author R.A. Dyer.
Even though he did run 150 on Balsis he was known for his defensive game so I hear. This seems counter to the game of 14.1.
I know Lou had a match with him. Maybe he can elaborate.

I know in my personal experience the aggressive player is much more admired and the mover is considered "sneaky". I guess when it comes down to it the W/L rate is the best determining factor.
For my cup of tea I prefer a Nick Varner (the wedge master) to someone like Scott Frost.

Not much to say about McGowan's defense. My exhibition match with him was only a few inning. I ran a 48, he ran an 80-something, and then a 50-something for the match. He was very nice and invited me to play another exhibition match with him in another city later on.

Lou Figueroa

 

[bstroud]

Offense trumps defense. It always has.

Bill S.

 

[Fast Lenny]

This is a very good thread with many valid points. This game has really evolved and one pocket is more popular then it has ever been with many who are on this forum and some who have left us making that happen. Scott and I did Power One Pocket about 4 years ago, I remember telling him lets make a DVD instructional called Power One Pocket and he thought I was yanking his chain but I was dead serious. Glad we did and hopefully have brought some new blood into the best game there is.

 

[mr3cushion]

I guess, no one has an answer for post #11?

 

[Fast Lenny]

Doc; I want to pose, just one question to everyone.

How did all the great "straight" shooters over the years, (I'm not going to mention all their names) lose playing Artie, if "offence" is the way to go?

They all couldn't have been helpless, playing, "defense!"

He played more than anyone with the, #1,2 ("Bugs") player in the world in their prime, and won 90% of the time. Only RA at that time had as much fire power playing one pocket as Bugs!

First tell us all the great straight shooters he beat and here is an interesting quote from Artie if you can comprehend it.

IF ANYONE WANTS TO BEAT SCOTT FROST YOU HAVE TO KEEP HIM ON DEFFENSE IF YOU CANT DO THAT YOU CANT WIN. YOU HAVE TO STAY ON OFFENCE BECAUSE HE IS IN HIS PRIME AND HE HAS WAY TO MUCH FIRE POWER. AND IF YOU DONT KEEP HIM ON DEFFENSE ON YOU STAY ON OFFFENSE HE WILL EAT YOU ALIVE. AND HE PLAYES OFFENSE REAL GOOD HE MIGHT BE THE BEST OUT THEIR. AND HE SHOOTS GOOD PERCENTAGE SHOTS ON OFFENSE. BUT IF YOU WANT TO WIN YOU MUST STAY ON OFFENSE. BECAUSE THE SHOTS HE SHOOTS HE KEEPS HIS OPPONENTS ON DEFFENSE. AND YOU HAVE TO TURN THAT AROUND. JUST IN CASE YOU WANT TO GIVE YOURSELF A CHANCE.

 

[Tom Wirth]

There you go. Even Mr. Defense agrees. Strong offense wins over strong defense. Defense only gets you the shots. Offense gets you the win.

Tom

 

[Fast Lenny]

Here is another Artie gem.

Scott plays a ver strong agressinve game of one pocket. But to play his style you have to have his ability if you dont have his talant and Ability that style will not work. And thats a great tournament style too. Because its fast and all ofense And that is what aggressive offensive players like. BUt he takes a lot of chances and gambels. And a week player can upset him in a match better then a control player. Because of the mistakes it its all offense. Were the other style you can lock him up.

And you have to work on his patence. Because he is all geared up. And you have to brack him down and his accracey.And irratate and frustrate him if that can be done. Because he is very strong minded to. And he does not look like you can aggrevate him or eratate him because he loves to play. And he is a good player to bet on. But he has a good onepocket mind. And their are not to many players in his leauge and the ones that are age is catching up with them.

And he has a better one pocket mind for the game than Efren. I am going by the shoots the shoot. And Efren makes more mistakes. BUt ability wise I give Efren the edge. BUt right now Scott Frost has the one pocket ability now to. HE has what you call one pocket shooting ability. And he still looks like he can get better. And I would have had a hard time beatting him 6 games ahead because what I have seen he also is a great indurence player. I think he will stand up and play great for a long time. I dont kid myself I see what players have.

And Scott FRost would be harder for me to beat playing 6 games ahead then Ronnie and Efren. Because Scott has that extra in him that Ronnie and Efren doesnt show me in a long session. And I no Ronnie would have thrown the toil in. And I dont no why the keep saying that Ronnie is better then BUgs When Bugs beat Ronnie 2 out of 3 when the were both in their prime what else do you have to go by...

 

[Island Drive]

One great aspect of offense....it can improve dramatically over hours of play and you'll know it, but your opponent won't till after awhile. Don't think I've ever seen defense improve dramatically during play unless lemonade is being served.