2 balls on spot,aka as Sleeping in the park shot.

unoperro

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So after watching Tom's great vids I decided to try the make the back ball bank,both versions. As I only got decent results about every tenth time I decided I didn't like either option.
I do have pretty good sucess with the draw shot to make the headball and often pocket both.
So my question is how much do table conditions affect the shots? Dirty balls,new cloth/old cloth,etc. ? Is it likely dirty balls and older cloth caused me the problems with making the back ball?
 

frmn

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I first saw this shot when Fats played it in one of those Legends matches on ESPN in the early 80's. Being a fat guy myself I said " I am always going to shoot that shot when it comes up". At the 1987 winter Reno Tournament I saw Bob Jewett describe a method for aiming this shot. With Bob's method I make the ball quite regularly. When it's game ball and goes in I tell people" I don't know why you even make me shoot it. But recently after telling somebody I made it 50 percent of the time I couldn't even come close. The conditions were different cueball and cloth so there can be a lot of variation. Use draw and different placement of the cueball until you find it. Once you get it,you get it. Ask Bob for his aiming method.
 

mhilton777

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I used to shoot it all the time 20 years ago with pretty good success. I have not shot it at all the last 10 years as it usually ends up leaving a sell out shot.
 

unoperro

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As I posted shooting with draw works well,the other methods not so much.

Hope Tom, or Bob chime in.
 

cincy_kid

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I never shoot the shot (maybe I should) but its scares me so I just shot the standard safe from there, hitting through the head ball and rolling the CB down to the foot rail, both balls go to your side.
 

Tom Wirth

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Chiming in as requested Mike. I've never been a fan of primarily playing the two rail bank on the back ball in these situations. mostly because playing the head ball and forcing it towards my pocket is easier to control. This one shot also sends the back ball into my scoring zone, sometimes making both balls. In addition, the shot is far safer if struck reasonably well because the necessary draw on the cue ball assures the cue ball will be back up table.

The front ball will never be made on the shot where you send the cue ball three rails while playing the back ball. That shot has another problem. Double kiss potential. I stay away from this shot altogether. I also stay away from the force shot on the front ball if there are any possible obstructing balls the back ball can potentially glance off of and send something the wrong way. I must have a clear path for the back ball, otherwise I'd rather play the safety as Cincy mentioned.

As for table and pool ball conditions are concerned, they definitely play a role in the success or failure of any of these shots. Humidity is also part of the equation. Moisture reduces friction and it will result is less throw effect. Dirty balls increase the friction and cause the balls the throw more but that may not be so helpful either because there may be a higher likelihood of a double kiss occurring. Bottom line, you will want to know what to expect from table to table, hour to hour, day to day. These conditions continually change in the course of a few hours of continuous play. Chalk dust gets everywhere, slows the table and dirties the balls. The table may begin to play shorter and shorter. The player who recognizes these changes quickest has at least that much of an advantage over his opponent.

If you intend to play in the evening it may be a good idea to ask the houseman to give the balls and table the once over before play begins. The table and balls will likely be dirty by the time you arrive to play.

Tom
 

Bob Jewett

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As I posted shooting with draw works well,the other methods not so much.

Hope Tom, or Bob chime in.
Make absolutely certain that the two spotted balls are frozen and straight up and down the table.

Place the cue ball by the headstring about 6 inches from the head spot on your opponent's side. Draw the cue ball straight back from the head ball. If you can't draw it straight back within half a diamond, work on your draw/aiming. If you do draw it straight back and the head ball does not go, adjust the location of the cue ball farther/nearer from the head spot depending on which side the head ball misses on.

With practice you can leave the cue ball within half a diamond of the head rail.

It is possible to make the shot with just a little draw and leave the cue ball near your opponent's side pocket. You have to move the cue ball to about the center of the table and cut the head ball a little.

It is also possible to play the shot with follow but it is very, very unlikely to work. Wade Crane showed this in a column a long time ago.
 

unoperro

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Thanks Tom for posting the youtube videos and for your reply.
Bob thanks for your insight.
I am glad that my feeling that trying this with draw is easier. I had such a bad time with the other versions that I was wondering wth.
I have banked the back ball in as well as banked the front ball in , but the draw shot is easier/safer then any other way.
 

catkins

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I see this shot very well but primarily focus on drawing cue all to the back rail since that seems the best way to prevent a sell out
 

Bob Jewett

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Robert Byrne describes somewhere in his books a gaff told to him by Fred Whalen, the LA-area promoter. If two balls have been spotted and you have to spot a third ball, spot it frozen but slightly to your opponent's side of the table. If you hit the head ball the middle ball will be squeezed to your pocket. This same principle, which involves the 10-times-fuller rule for frozen balls, can also come up in a lot of cluster situations.

The amount of offset of the third ball is pretty obvious if you are looking for it.
 
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