2010 One Pocket HOF Official Discussion Thread

gulfportdoc

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beatle said:
he also dumped everyone that had anything to do with him. thats why he had to move to vegas in the late 60's as he would have been killed if he didnt leave new york. not even the stone cold creeps wanted anything to do with him. his only claim to fame is he played good.
I didn't know that. Come to think of it, I have heard that he was a pretty unsavory character. Still, there are few Eagle Scouts in the 1P HOF. Some of them would have done just about anything to come out on top.

Doc
 

wincardona

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Steve I dont no howe the players got picket to vote for. But I think you left out a real great player and he ar least desirved a mention. And I would say he was the best one pocket player that ever came out off Florida.And I watched him run balles playing one pocket. And I would put him in the top 3 running balls playing. One pocket. I guess not too meny players seen him play. And he had a lot off gamble and not too meny people wanted to play him. And if he keepte playing he might have been the best. But he could run a lot off balls from every were. And the people who new him Like Freddyand Billy I and some off the other people should stand up for him. Because he is desirving. And especialy Billy because he knowes the truth. I just thought about him and his name poped up in my head. And when he was shooting good he could have beat any top player. And I think he had the talent at one time too be the best. If he would have keepte playing and learning. He had some great players thier to learn from. Rodrigez Bannanas. Gene Skinner. Marcel Kamp And Danny delaberto. But he ran into bad luck and that was the end off Mike and nobody talked about him much any more. With time almost everything is forgotten. Emagine what will be rememberd 1000 years from now. It is hard to Emagine. Thats why the news comes out the next day. But we are her so we see today and maybe tommarow. Who knowes 1000 years from now nobory might be playing pool anymore. And the probablee will be playing new and different games. But its hard visulizewhat games they will be playing. Or what the world will be like. I know we will all be very old fashiond 1000 years from now. But I thought that I would but in a good word for Mike Carrilo and he was great.
I'm really embarressed to have forgotten about Mike Carella, Mike played all games at a very high level, and should be recognized as being one of the best all around players of his time. He played one pocket very similiar to the way Frost plays, very agressively, and he ran balls as good as anyone. Carella was one of the most feared one pocket players of his time and certainly should of been on the ballot, imo. But there always is next year, and he won't be forgotten. Thanks Artie, for remembering.

Billy I.
 

philip guagliardo

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Hi

Hi

Artie & Billy

I actually thought he was in the HOF already because he was great !

I don't know how he could be overlooked , I seen him play in Detroit and the guy ran balls in bunches over and over . I seen him playing a shortstop playing the guy 26 -6 He ran I think it was 18 and out !! I'm ashamed to say the guy he was playing I think could have beat me .

RTP

HE BELONGS !
 

fred bentivegna

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Back by popular demand....

Back by popular demand....

gulfportdoc said:
Well, it looks as though Dick will probably get the most votes. Steve has not yet revealed whether he will allow a deceased category this year. If he does, I'm partial to Ervolino. Worst was one of the most dynamic and feared players of all time. However his career was short, and he didn't really play much 1P. Ervolino's entire career was devoted to 1P. He won several major 1P events, and his "after hour" contests were semi-legendary.

Doc
...in my own mind, because I want to set some of the records straight before things veer too far off course. Firstly, Beatle was right about my pal Johnny Ervolino. He was guilty of every bad thing that has been said about him. However, he was charming and loyal to his friends, and we all loved him.

Secondly, Doc you are a little off base when you say Johnny's entire career was devoted to 1P. Johnny was a deadly, feared money player -- when he was actually trying to win -- but the majority of his classical matches were with him playing even straight pool, 9ball, or spotting a weaker player playing 1P. I personally don't know of any top 1p player that he has ever beaten even. If I am wrong, and someone can point to some match-ups that I am not aware of, please educate me. Johnny hung out in Race Track Phil's and my joint, North Shore Billiards for a month and played zero 1P while there.

The biggest 1P game that I know of with Johnny came in the 70s in Wash. DC. He got a ball from Bugs, 8 to 7, and got staked by Sugar Shack. He played great and won handily. Sugar Shack confided to me that Johnny didn't really know the game but that he ran a million sevens. Sugar Shack also said that even after winning he wasn't all that crazy about the game.

Marcel Camp. Camp IMO did leave a lifetime legacy of world class 1P. He played as good as anybody for many years. I have a very short list of players that I think really knew how to PLAY 1P. Camp is near the top of that list.

Harold Worst. Harold's career was short because he died at 37. At Johnston City he offered to play anybody anything even, for whatever they wanted to bet (except bank pool). Everybody he played 1P with, he spotted.
Even the world's champion at the time, Eddie Taylor ducked him. I was with CornBread Red when he asked Eddie Taylor, "When ya' gonna play Worst some One pocket, and shut that loudmouthed Dutchman up?" Taylor responded, "I'm gonna git to him, Red, I'm gonna git to him." But he never did.

Allen Hopkins. In that short period when Bugs and Ronnie went into decline and Efren hadn't hit his stride yet, Allen Hopkins was the best one pocket player in the world. ie., Allen was playing our own fair haired boy Wm Incardona 10 to 8 in those days. On the other side of that coin and to give further perspective, while he was hanging in North Shore Billiards, Allen asked Artie for 8 to 7. Our other nominee, Buddy Hall topped that and asked Artie for 10 to 8.

Mexican Johnny? He asked Jimmy Moore to play 1P on the 5x10's in Bensingers in the 60s. Jimmy did not play. He played Jersey Red on the 5 by's and Red quit even after about 4 games.

Mike Carella? IMHO The worst, cheapest pool puke I ever came across in my career. Fantastic player and ball runner. Did magical things at the Rack in Detroit. Unbelievably, after playing some of the most phenomenal 1P I have ever seen, spotting guys like Black Jones 30 to 8, and 50 to 12, he went to California and played Ronnie Allen. Mike got spotted 9 to 7, and lost! Confirming to me Mike's inner creep self.
At the Rack he once won about 25k. Bugs was the gamekeeper and the match lasted about 24 hours. After it was over and Bugs asked for his "consideration," Mike told him, "Romberg owes me $200, get it from him and you can keep it."

Beard

Beard
 
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Don Smith

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San Jose Dick

San Jose Dick

Who are some of the people that San Jose Dick beat? Did he have a tournament record? I asked this question in another thread and got no reply.
 

gulfportdoc

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fred bentivegna said:
...in my own mind, because I want to set some of the records straight before things veer too far off course. Firstly, Beatle was right about my pal Johnny Ervolino. He was guilty of every bad thing that has been said about him. However, he was charming and loyal to his friends, and we all loved him.

Secondly, Doc you are a little off base when you say Johnny's entire career was devoted to 1P. Johnny was a deadly, feared money player -- when he was actually trying to win -- but the majority of his classical matches were with him playing even straight pool, 9ball, or spotting a weaker player playing 1P. I personally don't know of any top 1p player that he has ever beaten even. If I am wrong, and someone can point to some match-ups that I am not aware of, please educate me. Johnny hung out in Race Track Phil's and my joint, North Shore Billiards for a month and played zero 1P while there.

The biggest 1P game that I know of with Johnny came in the 70s in Wash. DC. He got a ball from Bugs, 8 to 7, and got staked by Sugar Shack. He played great and won handily. Sugar Shack confided to me that Johnny didn't really know the game but that he ran a million sevens. Sugar Shack also said that even after winning he wasn't all that crazy about the game.
I thought Ervolino had concentrated on 1P much more than what you revealed. Still, he'd be a good pick in the deceased category due to his two Stardust wins. Sounds like Camp would be a good consideration under the "after hours" distinction. Ditto with Carella, although he didn't make the ballot.

Doc
 

fred bentivegna

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Last bit of trivia

Last bit of trivia

Just remembered that one of the most ironic things of the 20th century was the pairing of Johnny Ervolino and Brooklyn Pancho. They served together in the Army in the same outfit. I think it was Fort Dix, NJ. They were both MP's!


Beard
 

wincardona

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fred bentivegna said:
...in my own mind, because I want to set some of the records straight before things veer too far off course. Firstly, Beatle was right about my pal Johnny Ervolino. He was guilty of every bad thing that has been said about him. However, he was charming and loyal to his friends, and we all loved him.

Secondly, Doc you are a little off base when you say Johnny's entire career was devoted to 1P. Johnny was a deadly, feared money player -- when he was actually trying to win -- but the majority of his classical matches were with him playing even straight pool, 9ball, or spotting a weaker player playing 1P. I personally don't know of any top 1p player that he has ever beaten even. If I am wrong, and someone can point to some match-ups that I am not aware of, please educate me. Johnny hung out in Race Track Phil's and my joint, North Shore Billiards for a month and played zero 1P while there.

The biggest 1P game that I know of with Johnny came in the 70s in Wash. DC. He got a ball from Bugs, 8 to 7, and got staked by Sugar Shack. He played great and won handily. Sugar Shack confided to me that Johnny didn't really know the game but that he ran a million sevens. Sugar Shack also said that even after winning he wasn't all that crazy about the game.

Marcel Camp. Camp IMO did leave a lifetime legacy of world class 1P. He played as good as anybody for many years. I have a very short list of players that I think really knew how to PLAY 1P. Camp is near the top of that list.

Harold Worst. Harold's career was short because he died at 37. At Johnston City he offered to play anybody anything even, for whatever they wanted to bet (except bank pool). Everybody he played 1P with, he spotted.
Even the world's champion at the time, Eddie Taylor ducked him. I was with CornBread Red when he asked Eddie Taylor, "When ya' gonna play Worst some One pocket, and shut that loudmouthed Dutchman up?" Taylor responded, "I'm gonna git to him, Red, I'm gonna git to him." But he never did.

Allen Hopkins. In that short period when Bugs and Ronnie went into decline and Efren hadn't hit his stride yet, Allen Hopkins was the best one pocket player in the world. ie., Allen was playing our own fair haired boy Wm Incardona 10 to 8 in those days. On the other side of that coin and to give further perspective, while he was hanging in North Shore Billiards, Allen asked Artie for 8 to 7. Our other nominee, Buddy Hall topped that and asked Artie for 10 to 8.

Mexican Johnny? He asked Jimmy Moore to play 1P on the 5x10's in Bensingers in the 60s. Jimmy did not play. He played Jersey Red on the 5 by's and Red quit even after about 4 games.

Mike Carella? IMHO The worst, cheapest pool puke I ever came across in my career. Fantastic player and ball runner. Did magical things at the Rack in Detroit. Unbelievably, after playing some of the most phenomenal 1P I have ever seen, spotting guys like Black Jones 30 to 8, and 50 to 12, he went to California and played Ronnie Allen. Mike got spotted 9 to 7, and lost! Confirming to me Mike's inner creep self.
At the Rack he once won about 25k. Bugs was the gamekeeper and the match lasted about 24 hours. After it was over and Bugs asked for his "consideration," Mike told him, "Romberg owes me $200, get it from him and you can keep it."

Beard

Beard
Fred, you have a great memory, Mike did play Ronnie getteing 9/7 and lost, but that was much before his days in Det. I remember it clearly even with my spotted memory, I was there. After Mike beat everyone he played in Det he went to a tournament in I believe it was Mobile Al. where he played Ronnie getting 9/7, Ronnie beat him and Mike called me to ask me to stake him. I couldn't believe that Ronnie could beat him with that spot when I thought that it was a close game even. I flew down to Al. and asked Ronnie if he wanted to play Mike with no sharking 9/7 he said i'll play him 9/8 I said no sharking and Ronnie agreed. Well we know now how much the shark meant to Ronnie, he lost to Mike givig him 9/8, when only a few days earlier he beat him with the shark giving him 9/7.

I've watched a lot of great players play one pocket and have played all of them (just about) Mike Carella was clearly one of the greatest, even if he never did pick up a dinner tab.


Billy I.
 

Frank Almanza

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wincardona said:
Fred, you have a great memory, Mike did play Ronnie getteing 9/7 and lost, but that was much before his days in Det. I remember it clearly even with my spotted memory, I was there. After Mike beat everyone he played in Det he went to a tournament in I believe it was Mobile Al. where he played Ronnie getting 9/7, Ronnie beat him and Mike called me to ask me to stake him. I couldn't believe that Ronnie could beat him with that spot when I thought that it was a close game even. I flew down to Al. and asked Ronnie if he wanted to play Mike with no sharking 9/7 he said i'll play him 9/8 I said no sharking and Ronnie agreed. Well we know now how much the shark meant to Ronnie, he lost to Mike givig him 9/8, when only a few days earlier he beat him with the shark giving him 9/7.

I've watched a lot of great players play one pocket and have played all of them (just about) Mike Carella was clearly one of the greatest, even if he never did pick up a dinner tab.


Billy I.
Mr. Incardona, it's always good to hear the full story. And it's true that RA won many of his matches with words.
 

jrhendy

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gulfportdoc said:
I didn't know that. Come to think of it, I have heard that he was a pretty unsavory character. Still, there are few Eagle Scouts in the 1P HOF. Some of them would have done just about anything to come out on top.

Doc
Over the years I was only around Ervolino twice, and while he was one of pools great characters and a terrific one pocket player who has lots of fans, both times I was around him he pulled a couple fast ones that cost people $$.

He may belong in the hall of fame but I didn't vote for him.
 

wincardona

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wincardona said:
Fred, you have a great memory, Mike did play Ronnie getteing 9/7 and lost, but that was much before his days in Det. I remember it clearly even with my spotted memory, I was there. After Mike beat everyone he played in Det he went to a tournament in I believe it was Mobile Al. where he played Ronnie getting 9/7, Ronnie beat him and Mike called me to ask me to stake him. I couldn't believe that Ronnie could beat him with that spot when I thought that it was a close game even. I flew down to Al. and asked Ronnie if he wanted to play Mike with no sharking 9/7 he said i'll play him 9/8 I said no sharking and Ronnie agreed. Well we know now how much the shark meant to Ronnie, he lost to Mike givig him 9/8, when only a few days earlier he beat him with the shark giving him 9/7.

I've watched a lot of great players play one pocket and have played all of them (just about) Mike Carella was clearly one of the greatest, even if he never did pick up a dinner tab.


Billy I.
Allen Hopkins. In that short period when Bugs and Ronnie went into decline and Efren hadn't hit his stride yet, Allen Hopkins was the best one pocket player in the world. ie., Allen was playing our own fair haired boy Wm Incardona 10 to 8 in those days. On the other side of that coin and to give further perspective, while he was hanging in North Shore Billiards, Allen asked Artie for 8 to 7. Our other nominee, Buddy Hall topped that and asked Artie for 10 to 8.

Your almost right with the above post. I did get 10/8 from Hopkins, one time , in his pool room in Egg Harbor NJ. I beat him fairly easy and we never played again until I played him at a tournament in Roanoke Va. where I beat him again. But you're right he was playing the best one pocket in the country during that time, a very knowledgeable player.

Billy I.
 

SJDinPHX

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RA's antics have always been worth at least 2 balls !!!..

RA's antics have always been worth at least 2 balls !!!..

Frank Almanza said:
Mr. Incardona, it's always good to hear the full story. And it's true that RA won many of his matches with words.
I doubt that anybody was the recipient of more of those "words" than yours truely...It took me quite a while to learn, the only way to shut him up, was to beat him..(no easy task, for sure..:cool:)

Wearing blinders and ear plugs didn't work. (I tried them)...I eventually learned how to push a few of his buttons too..Some of our more recent matches, were actually "one liner" contests, and a few of them wound up in actual fisticuffs...(or, two old men rolling around on the floor)...:eek:

However, we have since mellowed out toward each other, and I am now just thrilled to be on his speed dial. (AKA,bite list)...life is good..:rolleyes:
 

Terry Ardeno

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Background check???

Background check???

fred bentivegna said:
Just remembered that one of the most ironic things of the 20th century.....Johnny Ervolino...... served in the Army..... They were both MP's!


Beard
Fred,
Saying that was "one of the most ironic things of the 20th century" is a funny enough line. To finish that off with the "Velvet Foghorn" being a MP(!)
was really something!

Who would have thunk it.....Johnny Ervolino, a cop!

In Johnny's inimitable raspy voice..."Hey dirtball, open the friggin door! It's the police and I got a warrant for you for writing a bad check at the PX last month!"

The joke was on the U.S. Army I guess! :D

Great story, as per usual Beard.
 

mr3cushion

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Don Smith said:
Who are some of the people that San Jose Dick beat? Did he have a tournament record? I asked this question in another thread and got no reply.
Don; Hmmm....., let me think! Nope!:confused:

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
 

SJDinPHX

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=Don Smith..Who are some of the people that San Jose Dick beat? Did he have a tournament record? I asked this question in another thread and got no reply.
mr3cushion said:
Don; Hmmm....., let me think! Nope!:confused:

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Let me help you out...Mr. Smith and Mr. Smith. (no relation I'm sure)

Players beat...0...(at least nobody a guy who was scared to leave Chicago would know)...:p

Tournaments won...0...(too busy trying to make a living...to spend $1500, trying to make $1000, and a $2 trophy)

However, my record against guys who only had enough cahones to specialize in one game, (which was dead before I was born) was really outstanding, if they tried to play
me any game with pockets............3,425wins...O losses..:cool:

The New Sand Duck <---refuses to be drawn into a flame war with a guy who is about 51 cards short of a full deck...:rolleyes:
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
Record against guys who only had balls enough to play one game,...3,425wins...O losses.

The New Sand Duck <---refuses to be drawn into a flame war with a guy who is about 51 cards short of a full deck...:rolleyes:
Hey Jerkoff Sand Duck,

I almost beat you both sets that we played. They did both go 2-2 before I lost you know:p . Oh, you weren't talking to me? Nevermind:) .

Cowboy "confused today" Dennis
 

stevelomako

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mr3cushion said:
Don; Hmmm....., let me think! Nope!:confused:

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

You ain't Bob Ameen back from the dead are ya?


You 3 cushion guys are soooo classy.

Why don't you go hang out on a billiard site?
 

SJDinPHX

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mr3cushion said:
Don; Hmmm....., let me think! Nope!:confused:

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
Let me just say this Mr. 3C...If that guy Cornbread said, "couldn't nobody beat"...would have came to Houston or Dallas, at the right time, he would have gotten played with for sure, without giving up any weight at all...Anybody with even half a deck knew that...:rolleyes:

He may have beat me, but he sure wouldn't have been able to high roll me...He might have left Texas, owning a couple of oil wells...:eek:
 
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androd

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SJDinPHX said:
Let me just say this Mr. 3C...If that guy Cornbread said, "couldn't nobody beat"...would have came to Houston or Dallas, at the right time, he would have gotten played with for sure, without giving up any weight at all...Anybody with even half a deck knew that...:rolleyes:

He may have beat me, but he sure wouldn't have been able to high roll me...He might have left Texas, owning a couple of oil wells...:eek:
OR NOT, ;)
Rod.
 
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