5 rack game?

Jeff sparks

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As I remember it, there were two versions of the game... one prop bet was, you got ball in hand after the break, and if you happened to scratch on the break it didn’t matter, you just continued with ball in hand and took away 1 from the total...You got 5 tries ( breaks ) and counted all balls made each rack until one was missed or you scratched... the other prop bet, as I remember it was also 5 racks, but the big difference was, you had to shoot from wherever the cb stopped... obviously, if it stopped in the bottom of a pocket, the rack was over... scratches are scratches, it’s pretty simple, you scratch you lose your turn in any pool game, why would you change it?
 
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Bob Jewett

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... scratches are scratches, it’s pretty simple, you scratch you lose your turn in any pool game, why would you change it?
In order to get a bet. ;) There are lots of proposition bets in which scratches don't count against or at least they don't if the shooter remembers to put in that requirement.
 

Billy Jackets

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I just watched a video of Alex playing 5 rack, he won with 43 I believe, and got ball in hand after the break. That seems like a really low number with BIH for one of the best in the world, I am guessing it was a cheap bet because there were a lot of people walking in and out of his arena while doing it.
My guess with ball in hand after break , he would be capable of averaging somewhere near 50. possibly even more .
As I said earlier , this practice is best used as a drill or a fun way to pass the time.
Any money to be made was from B and C players who overrated their game and played bad patterns, it doesn't show up as bad at 9 ball, but if you are always on the wrong side of the balls in one pocket , it is a long day.
Alas after a while , they realize they can't beat 20 or even 15 with ball in hand behind the line and they go back to woofing at nine ball
 

NH Steve

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As I remember it, there were two versions of the game... one prop bet was, you got ball in hand after the break, and if you happened to scratch on the break it didn’t matter, you just continued with ball in hand and took away 1 from the total...You got 5 tries ( breaks ) and counted all balls made each rack until one was missed or you scratched... the other prop bet, as I remember it was also 5 racks, but the big difference was, you had to shoot from wherever the cb stopped... obviously, if it stopped in the bottom of a pocket, the rack was over... scratches are scratches, it’s pretty simple, you scratch you lose your turn in any pool game, why would you change it?
Thanks for checking in Jeff!!
 

Jeff sparks

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Thanks for checking in Jeff!!
Thanks for checking in Jeff!!
Hi Steve,
It’s always been a prop game, whoever offered it up,
made the rules by which it was played that day...


If the break is a skill shot in this proposition game, and I believe it definitely is,
then I wouldn’t want to reward a scratch on the break... A huge part of
the challenge to this game is opening the balls up nicely and getting
a shot at your chosen pocket...


If the intention of a standardized set of rules is to promote this prop
game to an event game for the MOT or any venue for that matter,
it would be nice to have one set of rules to go by...

I like play the cb where it stops...
Scratch on the break and that rack is finished, and you’re -1...
Spot all balls after all balls are made...
Cb fouls only...
Pretty basic...
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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just one thing I would add since it is a one pocket prop game any ball in your opponents pocket really should stay down
Nice thought, but I think you will agree that there is no opponent's pocket in this game. Therefore, all other pockets other than your declared scoring pocket are neutral and have no effect upon the game, other than the neutrally spotted balls are to spotted up after the all other balls have been cleared by scoring.
Also and I could be missing something, but I do not see the point in eliminating balls off the table just because they happen to go into the opposite foot corner pocket. thanks for the discussion! Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hi Steve,
It’s always been a prop game, whoever offered it up,
made the rules by which it was played that day...


If the break is a skill shot in this proposition game, and I believe it definitely is,
then I wouldn’t want to reward a scratch on the break... A huge part of
the challenge to this game is opening the balls up nicely and getting
a shot at your chosen pocket...


If the intention of a standardized set of rules is to promote this prop
game to an event game for the MOT or any venue for that matter,
it would be nice to have one set of rules to go by...

I like play the cb where it stops...
Scratch on the break and that rack is finished, and you’re -1...
Spot all balls after all balls are made...
Cb fouls only...
Pretty basic...
Jeff, thanks for your comments, it is really appreciated!

Early on in this thread we fielded comments pertaining to eliminating general rules as much as possible, and let the opponent's decide or the TD.
In keeping with that, it is pretty much not desirable going with cue ball foul only. We have eliminated a few other things like whole cb behind the line, and not contacting the rack at all is a foul, and I forget what else.

Also you notice the final sentence starting with the * allow for any further rules/alternative rule to be decided by the opponents or TD.* So we have that safe guard already built in, and that will cover a lot.

The basic guideline for a game rule writing is to try an eliminate general rules out of it, and stay more specific to the unique/specific rules that make up that game.

Thank you again! Whitey
 
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Jeff sparks

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Jeff, thanks for your comments, it is really appreciated!

Early on in this thread we fielded comments pertaining to eliminating general rules as much as possible, and let the opponent's decide or the TD.
In keeping with that, it is pretty much not desirable going with cue ball foul only. We have eliminated a few other things like whole cb behind the line, and not contacting the rack at all is a foul, and I forget what else.

Also you notice the final sentence starting with the * allow for any further rules/alternative rule to be decided by the opponents or TD.* So we have that safe guard already built in, and that will cover a lot.

The basic guideline for a game rule writing is to try an eliminate general rules out of it, and stay more specific to the unique/specific rules that make up that game.

Thank you again! Whitey
You are very welcome Whitey...

Been enjoying your vids for awhile now, nice of you to share them...
I’m sure others here enjoy them as well, as they add dimension and
reality to the wwyd’s we are all trying to figure out...

Nice of you to contribute your time and effort,
I know it’s time consuming and sometimes a little
frustrating setting up the balls in their exact positions,
but it’s got to be rewarding also, in the sense that you
are accomplishing and proving out a shot you imagined...

Thank you...
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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You are very welcome Whitey...

Been enjoying your vids for awhile now, nice of you to share them...
I’m sure others here enjoy them as well, as they add dimension and
reality to the wwyd’s we are all trying to figure out...

Nice of you to contribute your time and effort,
I know it’s time consuming and sometimes a little
frustrating setting up the balls in their exact positions,
but it’s got to be rewarding also, in the sense that you
are accomplishing and proving out a shot you imagined...

Thank you...
Thanks Jeff and guys! It is all of the above, well said, and I really appreciate the recognition. Sometimes I just blow a wwyd wide open with a simple shot, or an imaginative shot and then I feel pretty self conscious about doing that, and posting that. But, actually those shots show what is possible, and very possible with a pro that is in stroke, so they do have their place. I actually have very seldom ever picked the actual shot the player did, and often times I do not recognize the obvious shot, which is concerning. LOL!

But, what about this thread, 2500 views wow! I really loved Catkins 5 rack video. Now that is participating, and realistic, and you just got to love it. I am going to jump in there with a 5 rack video and catch up with Catkins and 12 square, just got a different camera that will record longer, now just got to get in stroke.

I hope more members participate in videoing 5 racks, it is fun to watch them. It does not really matter how good they are for this game is god awful hard anyway! Just mastering the break is super challenging. Thanks again, I'll keep videoing wwyd's since it seems they are appreciated. Whitey
 

catkins

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I will post another video as soon as I can just been working 14 hours and driving 1000 miles a week so I am a bit rough lately
 

jay helfert

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I would have to agree that if you scratch on the break, it doesn't end the rack. You get BIH behind the line and start at -1.

Thats how I always played it anyways, don't know about the earlier years.
That's how we played it too, unless both players agreed to a different format. For almost all good One Pocket players, making a good break was far better than attempting to scratch on the break. How would you like to scratch on the break and be faced with a long combination for your opening shot? The best break would be one where you broke open a few balls and had a starting shot at an open ball or two. You could "work" the rack from there. But what do I know. I used to shoot at 15 and not get there. :oops:
 

jay helfert

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Nice thought, but I think you will agree that there is no opponent's pocket in this game. Therefore, all other pockets other than your declared scoring pocket are neutral and have no effect upon the game, other than the neutrally spotted balls are to spotted up after the all other balls have been cleared by scoring.
Also and I could be missing something, but I do not see the point in eliminating balls off the table just because they happen to go into the opposite foot corner pocket. thanks for the discussion! Whitey

That was also the "standard" way to play this game; once again both players could opt for other rules if they so chose. If you accidently made a ball in any other pocket it would stay down until you ran all the balls and then it would spot back up and you keep shooting. Didn't happen that often.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Jay,
If I was playing this game whereas it is allowed to break scratch, I then would play to scratch in the side. I believe this could be rather easy to master, and I would open up the balls more.
And,
if I did not scratch in the side I still might have a few shots to choose from.

I look at the break scratch allowed as just another variation to hustle, such as Varner hustled Bob Jewett. My initial thought was to develop a universal game rule for it became apparent that it was played differently across the country, and now I realize it was played differently from pool room to pool room. So the endeavor changed to develop a base w/ variations, and players decide any further or alternative rules.
thanks, Whitey
 

NH Steve

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One reason I like using the rules that were used for a few years at DCC (which onepocket.org supported back then), is it validates Gabe Owen's high score of 60, which was witnessed (but not recorded). That gives players a record to shoot for, which is good for the game in my opinion.

I think for a while Corey Deuel was using the "8-ball break", where you place the cue ball just a few inches off the side rail -- surprisingly on the same side as the pocket you are pre-selecting -- so break from the right when your pocket is to the right -- then load up with about 5 o-clock english, and hit to spit the head ball and second ball. The cue ball is drawn back to the right side rail but then rebounds across the table to end up by the left side pocket or so. The object balls explode, but many seem to migrate across the table and then rebound back to the right side. If you let up on your low/side english you can scratch or get stuck along the bottom of the table, but if you get a good english snap, you stay up higher with the cue ball -- and sometimes scratch in the opposite side pocket.

I think Corey's 8-ball break was not highly favored back then in competition because it was too hard to control. That desire for control is why, as I remember it, most players used a little bit firmer break similar to a firm standard break (and maybe coming into the stack a little lower down the side of the rack), while trying to leave the cue ball around the center of the table.
 

12squared

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One reason I like using the rules that were used for a few years at DCC (which onepocket.org supported back then), is it validates Gabe Owen's high score of 60, which was witnessed (but not recorded). That gives players a record to shoot for, which is good for the game in my opinion.

I think for a while Corey Deuel was using the "8-ball break", where you place the cue ball just a few inches off the side rail -- surprisingly on the same side as the pocket you are pre-selecting -- so break from the right when your pocket is to the right -- then load up with about 5 o-clock english, and hit to spit the head ball and second ball. The cue ball is drawn back to the right side rail but then rebounds across the table to end up by the left side pocket or so. The object balls explode, but many seem to migrate across the table and then rebound back to the right side. If you let up on your low/side english you can scratch or get stuck along the bottom of the table, but if you get a good english snap, you stay up higher with the cue ball -- and sometimes scratch in the opposite side pocket.

I think Corey's 8-ball break was not highly favored back then in competition because it was too hard to control. That desire for control is why, as I remember it, most players used a little bit firmer break similar to a firm standard break (and maybe coming into the stack a little lower down the side of the rack), while trying to leave the cue ball around the center of the table.
I think Corey beat Shannon the Cannon using that great in one of his earlier tournaments. The commentary was hilarious. He gave it up shortly after, but he said when he plays great 1pocket players who would out move him, he liked making it a shooting game instead of a moving game. Makes sense.
 

NH Steve

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I think Corey beat Shannon the Cannon using that great in one of his earlier tournaments. The commentary was hilarious. He gave it up shortly after, but he said when he plays great 1pocket players who would out move him, he liked making it a shooting game instead of a moving game. Makes sense.
He used it up in Maine in 2000 -- which was kind of his tournament coming out for One Pocket. I think he knew better by then anyway, but didn't really want people to know that he knew better at that point ;)
 
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