5 rack game?

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Thanks catkins for the video, you made one hell of a nice run, and made some great banks.
The break on the 1st rack is exactly the way I played the break way back 50 yrs. ago. Not to much speed and the cb slides slightly over to your pocket side above the stack.
Thanks for showing all 5 racks. I am in there right with you, these racks can be brutal, and a lot of it can be dependent upon the break. Trying to work the balls to get on the right side of the stack so more balls can be made, is a challenge in and of itself.

I just realized your left handed. thanks, again, that was great! Whitey
 

gulfportdoc

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well this is the break I like , I am not shorting great right now and just noticed how much my tip moves on my finish. I guess I have something to fix...
Helluva run, Catkins! You made some great banks "under the gun". If you did that every rack, there's your 60...:cool:
 

lll

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well this is the break I like , I am not shorting great right now and just noticed how much my tip moves on my finish. I guess I have something to fix
Nice shooting Chris.. (y)
your avatar makes you look like a righty but obviously you play lefty?????
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Here is something that others might want to participate in: I shot 3 games of 5 Rack OP and kept track of my score. I got a 21, 16, 15 which averages out to 17. So this is my starting point. I will track this once in awhile and see how I am progressing.

On place cards I am also going to track the shots I missed and missed positioning. I feel there is a reason for missing shots and shape, and therefore a reason to work on them. This is all if I can get the time, I got other things going on.

Anything to get out of the virus funk. Tournaments have started up in this town, but I will not risk it. League is shut down, and my national regional bcapl is also shut down, so I just got into a funk, for what reason do I have to practice.

So I'll work this 5 Rack for awhile, it sure makes me focus, and I can not remember the pure desire to make a ball as much as I do with this game! Whitey
 
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Bob Jewett

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I've also heard of Allen Hopkins' break where you break off softly at a shallow angle down the side of the rack. The cue ball comes two rails out to the middle of the table, which guarantees you a first shot and a few loose balls pretty much all the time. Obviously, you will have to work the rack a bit more compared to the head ball break with draw or Cornbread Red's break. Has anyone tried it ?
Hopkins showed me this break at the DCC one year. He used to offer a proposition of five tries to run all 15. I think he did it on the fourth try when he was showing me.

I bet with Varner on the five-rack proposition about 1995(?). He also played without ball in hand but his standard break was to scratch and take ball in hand behind the line. He was going to 33 which was sort of like 38 due to the scratches. During the several sessions he ran 15-and-out seven times. Actually, that would be 16-and-out due to a ball being spotted for the scratch at the end of the rack.

I first saw ball in hand after the break at the One Pocket Shootout which I think Jay Helfert organized at the DCC for two or three years. Corey of course had a special break figured out in which the cue ball kissed the corner ball as it came out on his opponent's side to keep it from ending on the bad side rail.

John Schmidt says he had a 72 in practice with the DCC rules.
 

12squared

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Chris, thanks for the vid and great shooting that 1st rack. On your tight table it was fantastic (on any table really, but yours especially). My tips s moving similar to yours on the follow through, I call it the old man stroke. How old are you?

Nice break, too. But how the balls run bad sometime off the break is one reason this game is tough. Again, thanks
 

12squared

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Here is something that others might want to participate in: I shot 3 games of 5 Rack OP and kept track of my score. I got a 21, 16, 15 which averages out to 17. So this is my starting point. I will track this once in awhile and see how I am progressing.

Whitey
I tried 3 attempts using the head ball break and alternating pockets. I had a 19, 17 & 10. The balls were getting dirty I guess and I wasn't getting good separation. I change the break coming off the side of the rack with the same ball conditions and shot a 29 & 11 in the 2 additional sets I tried. I had a 6 and a 13 in the first to games of the 29 but thanks to coming short on several position shots I had to make circus shots to keep the runs alive. I should have done better than 29 I believe.

I don't have much hair to begin with, WHAT??? 🤣😂😢
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Thanks Dave for following up. Well now you have an average in appears as I add them up, of 15. So 15 is your starting point. You threw in there a 13, nice shooting. I believe this game develops positioning, and it will come, and that 29 will go up. Yesterday I felt the same, that I was just one shot away from busting this game wide open.

I shot some more racks later in the day. I also varied up the break, and broke to the other side. But being left handed I have to use the bridge with the right corner pocket. Funny when I was playing for real, I always took the right corner pocket for it was easier for me to shoot balls along my long rail. So I was wondering why it was so hard to reach the shots now. Then I go, I know, I, as with everybody got up on the table!

My break really started working yesterday, and that is a good feeling, but it amounts to hitting it right. I am shooting from almost over the 1st diamond end rail but a little past about an 1". Hitting the head ball 7/8 full using absolutely center ball with just very little rhe, using pretty good force. The intent is to slow the cb down as it goes to side rail. This is to miss the corner ball from kissing it.

If you hit it with a little less speed then the cb goes forward below the stack between the 1st and 2nd diamond which works out good for working those balls below the stack. The fuller hit on the head ball gets you out of the corner ball kiss.

But what I am finding is that my focus is way up! thanks again! Whitey
 

NH Steve

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Hopkins showed me this break at the DCC one year. He used to offer a proposition of five tries to run all 15. I think he did it on the fourth try when he was showing me.

I bet with Varner on the five-rack proposition about 1995(?). He also played without ball in hand but his standard break was to scratch and take ball in hand behind the line. He was going to 33 which was sort of like 38 due to the scratches. During the several sessions he ran 15-and-out seven times. Actually, that would be 16-and-out due to a ball being spotted for the scratch at the end of the rack.

I first saw ball in hand after the break at the One Pocket Shootout which I think Jay Helfert organized at the DCC for two or three years. Corey of course had a special break figured out in which the cue ball kissed the corner ball as it came out on his opponent's side to keep it from ending on the bad side rail.

John Schmidt says he had a 72 in practice with the DCC rules.
I’m confused about the comment about DCC rules. They were always “cue ball played where it lies” after the break, except on a scratch, which was BIH behind the line, minus 1 for the scratch, but considered well worth the penalty in exchange for BIH. I was there every year they had this, and I even ultimately collected and handled out the money most years.

I am referring to the One Pocket Challenge “tournament” at DCC — not gambling action which could have been anything.

The break almost everyone seemed to be using there was to come off the side of the rack a little firmer than a standard break, cue ball going two rails to the middle of the table.
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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5 RACK ONE POCKET

The Game:
It is a proposition game of One Pocket between a non-player and the player. The proposition is that the player has 5 racks of balls to score a predetermine x-amount of balls into one corner foot pocket. The x-amount of balls to be scored is determined by the opponents prior to the game starting.

The Rack: 15 balls are racked randomly within a standard triangle rack, by the player. The opponent has the right to inspect the rack and ask for corrections to be made if warranted.

The Break requirements: The designated scoring pocket must be declared before breaking the initial rack, with no further declaration needed unless there is a scoring pocket change on a subsequent rack. The cue ball must be placed within the kitchen. Any racked ball can be first contacted. There is no requirement for any ball to contact a rail, or to pocket a ball, but the rack must be contacted or it is a foul. A ball made in the designated scoring pocket, counts. Play continues from where the cue ball lays. After the opening break shot, play continues unless a previous foul has occurred, which ends the rack and the score is a -1 ball.

Rack Continuing: The rack continues only if a ball is scored. The rack will also end upon any foul. Each foul is a -1 ball deduction. If a ball is scored but a foul occurs it will not be scored, plus it is a loss of 1 scored ball, unless no balls have been scored then the score is a -1 ball. The rack and ball count are tracked after each rack. Any balls pocketed in a neutral pocket are to be spotted all at once, and only after clearing the table by scoring all the other balls. All shots must only be played with the player's playing cue.

Game Won: The player must score the predetermined x-amount of balls within 5 racks.

* Any further rules of play or any alternative rules of play are to be determined between the opponents *
---------------------------------------------------------

A concern has been brought to my attention about the whole ball being placed behind the line. In keeping with our decision not to impose any 'General Rules' upon the opponents. I then have eliminated the word 'entire' which relates to whole ball behind the line. It now reads: "The cue ball must be placed within the kitchen". If there is no objections or further discussion I will go with that.

A concern has been brought to my attention that it should relate to tournaments, and wrote as such.
This is my personal take on the game, and that as being traditionally and mainly a proposition game between opponents, and thus it is wrote that way. I personally do not see this as solely or as primarily being a game rule for tournaments, It could be wrote that way by saying it is played by multiple players with the winner being the one that scores the most points. Then make the proposition game an alternative.

But, in reality just how many tournaments would have this game as their primary game. I see it as a past time tournament to fill in, and give the players something to do, but other than that I can not envision it rising to the status of the main game over the traditional matching up game.
A derivative of the traditional game, yes. Great use, great fill in fun!

Plus, in all games whether it is OP, 9-ball, Snooker, 8-ball or what have you, when these games are played by multiple players or partners it is always an alternative to the actual game. Discussion welcomed!

This is what I would suggest in addition to the main rules of the game. In doing this we cover all the games and their rules:

ATERNATIVE GAMES / RULES

5 Rack OP / Scratch Break
Break;
it is allowed to scratch on the break and continue the rack. If the player scratches on the break they then receive ball in hand behind the line. The score is -1 ball owed to the table, and is spotted only after clearing the table by scoring all the other balls.
All other break and game rules apply

5 Rack OP / Ball in Hand Anywhere
Break;
upon breaking the rack of balls the shooter thereafter receives ball in hand anywhere.
All other break and game rules apply

Tournament Play
When the game is played by multiple players such as in a tournament format then any of the above games can be adopted by the governing event authority. The tournament is then won by the player who scores the highest score.
--------------------------------------------


Lets continue the discussion, we need input! If it is good to go, let me know also! thanks, Whitey
 
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catkins

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I have been enjoying shooting at 22. It gives me a different focus when I play cause I am shooting for a specific umber each rack, This feels more like playing one pocket since you can cinch up to make the set number and than play for bonus balls each rack
 

Bob Jewett

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... They were always “cue ball played where it lies” after the break, except on a scratch, which was BIH behind the line, minus 1 for the scratch, but considered well worth the penalty in exchange for BIH. ...
You're right. I just checked the original announcement. I must have been thinking about the side action.

If a scratch is allowed on the break with a -1 score, the rules need to say whether a ball will be spotted at the end of the rack to allow a total of 15 in the rack.
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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You're right. I just checked the original announcement. I must have been thinking about the side action.

If a scratch is allowed on the break with a -1 score, the rules need to say whether a ball will be spotted at the end of the rack to allow a total of 15 in the rack.
Under alternative game 5 Rack OP / Break Scratch: I added your game rule distinction pertaining to this game, that the owed ball for a break scratch is to be spotted after all other balls have been scored. Thank You! Whitey
 
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