Alex v. Scott: The Good, the Bad, and the ...

backplaying

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To the people who watched the Scott/Alex match:

Anyone who would register even one complaint about their dress is an imbecile. They were playing what would've been a private gambling match that they, out of the kindness of their hearts, allowed us to view. Only a moron or a miserable old man would complain about what they wore. Again, it was a private gambling match and they owed nothing to anybody. Stop trying to impose your ideas onto the current generation unless they're in a tournament setting, then a certain decorum should be required.

They are not role models for anyone, they already had backers and the game was set so they didn't need to impress anyone. They weren't in church and had to impress nobody.

That said, I will also say this: I don't understand how streaming a match works but cmbwsu streamed this match free of charge for us but he seemed to have no control over the commentators. How does that work? Anybody who was in the chat that night saw that cmbwsu was extremely upset at the language used by Rich. Also, cmbwsu clearly stated that he'd got several potential sponsors to watch the stream and it was very upsetting to him that Rich kept dropping the "F-Bomb". Even after being asked not to drop the "F-Bomb" anymore he still did it several more times. It did not help that the people in the chat kept saying that Rich was not cursing. He was, not overly so and not really annoyingly so (to me) but he was.

cmbwsu said he did a lot of work to get the potential sponsors to watch the stream and he felt they were turned off by the language of Rich. I'll say this about that: If an announcer curses so naturally that he doesn't even realize when he's doing it (as Rich said) he shouldn't be on a stream when it's so important to the streamer. The streamer needs control over this aspect in the future if it's so important to him.

Those things aside, I very much enjoyed Rich's commentary and under ordinary circumstances wouldn't have minded or even noticed (too much) his cursing even though I do expect more from a public commentator. He was extremely knowledgeable and entertaining about one-pocket.

In my opinion Tang Hoa should never be allowed on a livestream again, he's a personable enough fellow but he has a voice made for braille. I felt I was constantly out of breath listening to him gasp for air and breath into the microphone.

To cmbwsu: I appreciated the work you did streaming the match. Alex played some of the greatest one-pocket I've ever seen and he made Scott play a little under his speed as a result. I thank you for your effort and your work.

One Pocket Rich: You are an excellent and very knowledgeable commentator and it was a pleasure to listen to your descriptions of the match and your general banter.

Dennis
Watched the whole thing and I have to agree.
 

backplaying

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What's really funny are "pro" pool player whining about how there's no money in pool.

Take a look around gents, there's a reason why big corporations with the moolah won't toss you a quarter. Hell, even in "The Hustler," the penultimate pool "outlaw" movie, Fast Eddie wore a sports coat and Fats a suit with a carnation.

Of course you can take the short view and say it was a private match and all and both players could be playing with their pants half way to their knees showing their ass crack but the potential is always there for more. Some guys just can't see that far down the road.

Lou Figueroa
I agree.
I think poolplayers will have to start dressing better at all times to help improve pools image. I think its more comfortable to play in slacks, like dockers and a nice polo shirt than jeans anyway. They also make some very comfortable dress shoes. I know some seasoned road warriors who I have never seen in anything but jeans and wore out tee-shirts. I do agree with Dennis on the streaming part. No one should curse on a stream. Some people seem to be snoring into the mic at times also. Also, I think you had to of played the game at a fairly high level at one time to be a good commentator.
 

lfigueroa

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I agree.
I think poolplayers will have to start dressing better at all times to help improve pools image. I think its more comfortable to play in slacks, like dockers and a nice polo shirt than jeans anyway. They also make some very comfortable dress shoes. I know some seasoned road warriors who I have never seen in anything but jeans and wore out tee-shirts. I do agree with Dennis on the streaming part. No one should curse on a stream. Some people seem to be snoring into the mic at times also. Also, I think you had to of played the game at a fairly high level at one time to be a good commentator.

My opinion is that anytime, anywhere you're "on camera" you take that into consideration and dress accordingly. Not for who will see it, but for who might see it. It's the old, "Don't dress for the job you have, dress for the job you want."

IOW: if you want to be considered, viewed, appreciated, and *rewarded* as "a pro," act (and dress) like one.

Lou Figueroa
 

Tom Wirth

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To the people who watched the Scott/Alex match:

Anyone who would register even one complaint about their dress is an imbecile. They were playing what would've been a private gambling match that they, out of the kindness of their hearts, allowed us to view. Only a moron or a miserable old man would complain about what they wore. Again, it was a private gambling match and they owed nothing to anybody. Stop trying to impose your ideas onto the current generation unless they're in a tournament setting, then a certain decorum should be required.

Now here is a case in which we have someone who wishes to silence anyone who has a differnce of opinion. He calls people with view points which are contrary to his own morons and imbeciles in an effort to bolster his own opinion. I childish tactic which might work in a grade school atmosphere but not here among the adults. I wouldn't doubt he would advocate burning books which he doesn't approve.

To the point though, no one here has suggested that Scott and Alex did not have the right to wear whatever clothing they wanted. They could cross dress for all I care, but how that would help pool I couldn't answer.

The point being made was clearly stated by me and several others that for pool to progress and become a vibrant sport which draws the attention of big money advertisers and sponsors the players must make the first move to cleaning up their house. It isn't enough to simply have a dress code during tournaments. Due to the internet our world is now very public. Sponsors are interested in players who conduct themselves appropriately. It should be obvious to everyone that anytime, whether in a tournament or live stream, a professional pool player is promoting the game and should act and dress accordingly if they wish to see sponsorship begin to take notice.

The current state of pool in this country is abysmal. Many top flight players are no better then beggars looking for a hand out. It is sad to think that the old joke; (What do you call a pool player without a wife or girl friend? Answer; Homeless). is not without merit. Jose Parica a number of years ago when there was still a tour was sanctioned because he refused to stop gambling at pool. In his defence he claimed he had no other way to make a decent living because of the meager payouts the tour offered. Not much has changed has it?

Pool players are their own worst enemies. They seem to want big pay outs in tournaments but want to to do things their way as well. Life just doesn't work that way very often. If the players want pool to thrive on a professional level they are going to have to concede that they must change their behavior on many issues which includes decisions regarding wardrobe.

Dennis, please notice I did not call you names as you have chosen to do with so many people on this forum. I wish to stick to the issues. If you have a difference of opinion I have no problem with that. We are all entitled to make our own case on whatever issues may arise from this site or any other. If at all posible try to refrain from the belittling of others. It doesn't help to make your case any stronger.

Tom
 

jrhendy

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To the people who watched the Scott/Alex match:

Anyone who would register even one complaint about their dress is an imbecile. They were playing what would've been a private gambling match that they, out of the kindness of their hearts, allowed us to view. Only a moron or a miserable old man would complain about what they wore. Again, it was a private gambling match and they owed nothing to anybody. Stop trying to impose your ideas onto the current generation unless they're in a tournament setting, then a certain decorum should be required.

They are not role models for anyone, they already had backers and the game was set so they didn't need to impress anyone. They weren't in church and had to impress nobody.

That said, I will also say this: I don't understand how streaming a match works but cmbwsu streamed this match free of charge for us but he seemed to have no control over the commentators. How does that work? Anybody who was in the chat that night saw that cmbwsu was extremely upset at the language used by Rich. Also, cmbwsu clearly stated that he'd got several potential sponsors to watch the stream and it was very upsetting to him that Rich kept dropping the "F-Bomb". Even after being asked not to drop the "F-Bomb" anymore he still did it several more times. It did not help that the people in the chat kept saying that Rich was not cursing. He was, not overly so and not really annoyingly so (to me) but he was.

cmbwsu said he did a lot of work to get the potential sponsors to watch the stream and he felt they were turned off by the language of Rich. I'll say this about that: If an announcer curses so naturally that he doesn't even realize when he's doing it (as Rich said) he shouldn't be on a stream when it's so important to the streamer. The streamer needs control over this aspect in the future if it's so important to him.

Those things aside, I very much enjoyed Rich's commentary and under ordinary circumstances wouldn't have minded or even noticed (too much) his cursing even though I do expect more from a public commentator. He was extremely knowledgeable and entertaining about one-pocket.

In my opinion Tang Hoa should never be allowed on a livestream again, he's a personable enough fellow but he has a voice made for braille. I felt I was constantly out of breath listening to him gasp for air and breath into the microphone.

To cmbwsu: I appreciated the work you did streaming the match. Alex played some of the greatest one-pocket I've ever seen and he made Scott play a little under his speed as a result. I thank you for your effort and your work.

One Pocket Rich: You are an excellent and very knowledgeable commentator and it was a pleasure to listen to your descriptions of the match and your general banter.

Dennis
cmbwsu does not do the streaming. He tracks and maybe sets up streams others do and makes the information available to people to watch the streams. povpool.com did the streaming for the match and the Swanee tournament before the match and streams several events in California. They do a great job and I believe will stream a tournament this coming weekend in Northern CA.

I agree that this was a gambling match that we were lucky to be able to watch. Anybody that was trying to round up sponsors without checking with them first probably learned a lesson. They were both trying to win 20k, not make a fashion statement.

Rich is one of the better players in Southern CA and did a good job IMO.
 
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SJDinPHX

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Of course you can take the short view and say it was a private match and all and both players could be playing with their pants half way to their knees showing their ass crack but the potential is always there for more. Some guys just can't see that far down the road.

Lou Figueroa
Lou,

How can you be such an "imbecile" and a "moron" ?..Pay attention to what Cowboy Denise says.. (if you can figure it out) He contradicts himself every other sentence..
:rolleyes:

Cowboy Dennis said:
...."Stop trying to impose your ideas onto the current generation unless they're in a tournament setting, then a certain decorum should be required"...

....."cmbwsu was extremely upset at the language used by Rich. Also, cmbwsu clearly stated that he'd got several potential sponsors to watch the stream and it was very upsetting to him that Rich kept dropping the "F-Bomb". Even after being asked not to drop the "F-Bomb"....

..."I'll say this about that: If an announcer curses so naturally that he doesn't even realize when he's doing it (as Rich said) he shouldn't be on a stream when it's so important to the streamer"...

....." under ordinary circumstances I wouldn't have minded or even noticed (too much) his cursing even though I do expect more from a public commentator."

....."One Pocket Rich: You are an excellent and very knowledgeable commentator and it was a pleasure to listen to your descriptions of the match and your general banter."
Two things are obvious here, Lou,...Cowboy has definately been through 'the school of SOFT knocks'. And, like all pool player's, he believes in 'putting his WORST foot forward'..:eek:

Miserable Old Duck
 

lfigueroa

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Lou,

How can you be such an "imbecile" and a "moron" ?..Pay attention to what Cowboy Denise says.. (if you can figure it out) He contradicts himself every other sentence..
:rolleyes:



Two things are obvious here, Lou,...Cowboy has definately been through 'the school of SOFT knocks'. And, like all pool player's, he believes in 'putting his WORST foot forward'..:eek:

Miserable Old Duck

Well, what I've found is that it's usually worth a try to offer a civil rebuttal to logically present your view point. IOW, demonstrate how adults with differing points of view talk things over. If that doesn't work and the insults and name calling persist... then all that means to me is that the individual on the other side of the discussion is not capable of and/or interested in that kind of discourse and, for me, not worth engaging in further discussion.

Lou Figueroa
 

SJDinPHX

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He
Well, what I've found is that it's usually worth a try to offer a civil rebuttal to logically present your view point. IOW, demonstrate how adults with differing points of view talk things over. If that doesn't work and the insults and name calling persist... then all that means to me is that the individual on the other side of the discussion is not capable of and/or interested in that kind of discourse and, for me, not worth engaging in further discussion.

Lou Figueroa
Actually, the Rust Belt Lunatic, is OK...If I don't insult him at least once a day, he gets lonesome !...He gives me so many opportunities, but a meaningful 'discourse' has never been one of them ! :rolleyes:

The Considerate Duck
 
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Scrzbill

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To the people who watched the Scott/Alex match:

Anyone who would register even one complaint about their dress is an imbecile. They were playing what would've been a private gambling match that they, out of the kindness of their hearts, allowed us to view. Only a moron or a miserable old man would complain about what they wore. Again, it was a private gambling match and they owed nothing to anybody. Stop trying to impose your ideas onto the current generation unless they're in a tournament setting, then a certain decorum should be required.

Dennis, you always have to insult. What a jerk.
 

Scrzbill

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To fast lenny, I really can't speak for everyone, but I think we (or at least I) was saying there is a time for nice clothes. Even though it came up in this thread, it was more about pool attire in general.

I still think there are loads of benefits to dressing nice that fly right over the head of the average player though.

But, as you say, I never shaved, and I dressed like a total scumbag when I played everyday. IF I had to do it over again, with my current "wisdom", would I do it differently. Yes... Ross just isn't that expensive. And I think it would have really helped me financially in terms of borrowing money, backers and perhaps overall attention in the poolroom and even with the ladies.
Tyler, you are correct. What is not addressed is the fact everyone says pool is going no where and they throw their hands up. The fact is the players themselves are at fault for not wanting to play for more money because of the way they dress. Who wants to pay high money for players in t-shirts, dirty jeans, raggedy gang banger dress. You can say anything about the style of todays younger dress, but it came from prison gangs. Having pants down showing your ass, long t-shirts, jerseys, all gang related. People with the cash do not want to promote gangs.
 

demonrho

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What's really funny are "pro" pool player whining about how there's no money in pool.

Take a look around gents, there's a reason why big corporations with the moolah won't toss you a quarter...

Lou Figueroa
The idea that if only pool became as squeaky clean and bland as badminton it would sell to the corporations is a tired old trope that is plain wrong. The corporations have always laughed off the pool industry's desperate and pathetic attempt to sell itself as something that it is not. Pool needs to repackage itself like poker did and play off its own inherent rich drama.

At its core pool is a continuation of the archetypal American story of the Western gunslinger. Modern pool has been profoundly influenced by a humble unearthly Filipino. Pool is rich in all the colorful story lines of a unique cast of characters like Ronnie Allen, Keith McCready, Earl, Shane, and Alex. There are epic rivalries like Schmidt and Harriman. There is the tension between tournament and gambling. Etc, etc, etc.
 

onepockethacker

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The idea that if only pool became as squeaky clean and bland as badminton it would sell to the corporations is a tired old trope that is plain wrong. The corporations have always laughed off the pool industry's desperate and pathetic attempt to sell itself as something that it is not. Pool needs to repackage itself like poker did and play off its own inherent rich drama.

At its core pool is a continuation of the archetypal American story of the Western gunslinger. Modern pool has been profoundly influenced by a humble unearthly Filipino. Pool is rich in all the colorful story lines of a unique cast of characters like Ronnie Allen, Keith McCready, Earl, Shane, and Alex. There are epic rivalries like Schmidt and Harriman. There is the tension between tournament and gambling. Etc, etc, etc.
There are only 3 reasons why poker took off in this country..
1. Anyone regardless of skill level can get hot and win a boatload of money in a tournament- not true in pool, if you are not highly skilled in pool you have no chance of winning.

2. They started showing the hole cards on television.. if they don't show the hole cards you would not have half the amount of people watching.. proven fact!!

3. Everyone could play online in the comfort of their home without having to sit at a table in a casino and interacting with people. Which people in this country can't play online anymore and plus Full Tilt left a bad taste in everyone's mouth and wallet.

Poker is on a decrease now. Those 3 reasons why poker exploded have nothing in relation to pool
 
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Fast Lenny

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There are only 3 reasons why poker took off in this country..
1. Anyone regardless of skill level can get hot and win a boatload of money in a tournament- not true in pool, if you are not highly skilled in pooled you have no chance of winning.

2. They started showing the hole cards on television.. if they don't show the hole cards you would not have half the amount of people watching.. proven fact!!

3. Everyone could play online in the comfort of their home without having to sit at a table in a casino and interacting with people.

Poker is on a decrease now. Those 3 reasons why poker exploded have nothing in relation to pool
You got that right and its on the decline not just because of the economy but the suckers are heading to GA! :frus
 

lfigueroa

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The idea that if only pool became as squeaky clean and bland as badminton it would sell to the corporations is a tired old trope that is plain wrong. The corporations have always laughed off the pool industry's desperate and pathetic attempt to sell itself as something that it is not. Pool needs to repackage itself like poker did and play off its own inherent rich drama.

At its core pool is a continuation of the archetypal American story of the Western gunslinger. Modern pool has been profoundly influenced by a humble unearthly Filipino. Pool is rich in all the colorful story lines of a unique cast of characters like Ronnie Allen, Keith McCready, Earl, Shane, and Alex. There are epic rivalries like Schmidt and Harriman. There is the tension between tournament and gambling. Etc, etc, etc.

To the best of my knowledge *no one* is even suggesting that pool become "squeaky clean." I am also not aware of any corporations that have laughed off the pool industry -- could you please illuminate us as to what board room presentations and discussions you have been privy to. And, I'm not sure why pool should be following the poker model. (Personally, I would argue that the golf model would be a far more logical.)

In any case, first pool needs to get its collective foot in the corporate door. Figuratively speaking, showing up at Donald Trump's dressed like a street thug -- whether on a stream or at a tournament -- is not going to get the corporate cheese.

Lou Figueroa
 

jrhendy

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Poker & Pool

Poker & Pool

Poker caught on because people liked the characters, warts and all, along with the fact it was easy to figure out, especially when you could see the hole cards.

Pool has been trying to put lipstick on a pig for a long time without it working. I doubt many love pool more than I, but it was not the vision of something better that drew me to it. I love being in a pool room surrounded by all the characters that also choose to be there, and to this day, sixty plus years after it all started, I pretty much feel the same way.

I am very lucky to still be able to play this game I love as well as I do. I spent last weekend watching the best in the world bang heads at a casino. This weekend I will get to see many of them again, but his time in a pool room, which is even better and I get to join in for a $50 entry fee and get to take a shot at some of the best players on the planet. Just getting in the cash would be a victory, but I am a winner if I never win a game.

I am not saying I would not like pool to gain some kind of elevated status and start giving big paychecks to the pro players. They deserve more than they get and maybe Bonus Ball will help. IPT helped for a little while but every time something looks good for pool, something seems to happen to it and it goes away.
 

demonrho

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There are only 3 reasons why poker took off in this country..
...
Those are certainly three key reasons why poker took off. But, they are not the only reasons. There was a definite "outlaw" allure at work and it was clearly observable in poker marketing. People got a vicarious thrill out of being part of something that was outside the mainstream.

As you point out, pool is not poker, but there is a similarity in both their "outlaw" appeals. And, that points to a possible marketing strategy for pool. The old strategy of trying to market it like golf has not worked and shows no indication of working.

Pool will probably never become mainstream but there is a niche market for non-mainstream endeavors - witness jazz or even rock and roll before it become the norm. The allure of something real with a hint of the forbidden will always draw a certain segment of the population who are tired of being spoon fed wholesome family fun. Why not try marketing pool on its strengths? It is so full of drama and fascinating characters it is a shame most Americans are not aware of any of it.
 

demonrho

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To the best of my knowledge *no one* is even suggesting that pool become "squeaky clean." I am also not aware of any corporations that have laughed off the pool industry -- ...
Lou Figueroa
Go through the last 20 or more years of "Billiards Digest" and you will clearly see the desperate attempt to make pool squeaky clean for marketing purposes. Corporate America's response to this marketing strategy can indeed be seen as a metaphorical laughing off of the pool industry. It's not hard to imagine the response in the corporate board rooms: "Are these people serious?"
 

demonrho

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What are the three reasons?
Quoting onepockethacker:

"There are only 3 reasons why poker took off in this country..
1. Anyone regardless of skill level can get hot and win a boatload of money in a tournament- not true in pool, if you are not highly skilled in pool you have no chance of winning.

2. They started showing the hole cards on television.. if they don't show the hole cards you would not have half the amount of people watching.. proven fact!!

3. Everyone could play online in the comfort of their home without having to sit at a table in a casino and interacting with people. Which people in this country can't play online anymore and plus Full Tilt left a bad taste in everyone's mouth and wallet."
 
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