Cliff Joyner vs. Richie Richeson ..... Who is the favorite from this position?

ChrisBanks

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Let's make an assumption for this discussion that Richie and Cliff are even in skill. Who do you think is the favorite from this point given the position of the balls?

This is a very interesting game. Cliff has probably taken 10 or more fouls up to this point. There are a few shot diagrams from this game that I'd like to post, but I am also interested in who the favorite is from this point.
 

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usblues

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Richie...

Richie...

......he's ahead and after this shot the layout will favor neither player,cheers,Jack
 

vapros

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There is no favorite at this point. Richie has a 3 ball lead, but all the balls are on Cliff's side of the table. It's Richie's shot and he is about to deal with the very few balls that one could call threats to him. Using the crutch, he is about to move the only one that could go in Cliff's pocket. This entire pattern could switch sides very quickly.

You noted that their skills are equal, but Cliff has already taken about 10 fouls and has redeemed most of them, so he would seem to be controlling this game. If one had to pick a favorite, it would be Cliff, by a margin of about 73/72. :heh
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Let's make an assumption for this discussion that Richie and Cliff are even in skill. Who do you think is the favorite from this point given the position of the balls?

This is a very interesting game. Cliff has probably taken 10 or more fouls up to this point. There are a few shot diagrams from this game that I'd like to post, but I am also interested in who the favorite is from this point.
I would give Cliff the nod from here. He's taken 10 or more fouls already but he's only down -3 so he's made at least 7 balls and still has manged to keep them all on his half of the table. That's pretty strong.

Dennis
 

gulfportdoc

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If it's Cliff who is about to shoot, then I like his chances. He can start breaking up those clusters and be the favorite to win.

On the other hand, if it's Richie's shot, then he's the favorite. He's about ready to knock away the only ball that can be made in Cliff's pocket; whereas Richie has 4 or 5 makeable free banks. Cliff will also have few places to leave Richie. So, with Cliff spotting Richie 11-8 from here, with this layout, Richie has the advantage.

Doc
 

NH Steve

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As I look at the photo, I see three ways for Richie to get rid of that ball closest to Cliff's pocket -- either pocket it for Cliff or one rail it towards his own hole (swinging the cue up towards the back corner on Cliff's side) or kicking underneath it. Anything else seems like a kiss. But you didn't ask that :)

I think that the way Cliff runs balls, once he is able to get started on these he would get a bunch -- potentially a really big bunch. I think the lie still favors Cliff enough that he is still the favorite, by a little.
 

wincardona

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As I look at the photo, I see three ways for Richie to get rid of that ball closest to Cliff's pocket -- either pocket it for Cliff or one rail it towards his own hole (swinging the cue up towards the back corner on Cliff's side) or kicking underneath it. Anything else seems like a kiss. But you didn't ask that :)

I think that the way Cliff runs balls, once he is able to get started on these he would get a bunch -- potentially a really big bunch. I think the lie still favors Cliff enough that he is still the favorite, by a little.
I believe that Richie is going to bank the ball toward his pocket, but i'm not convinced that that's the best shot from this position. It's crucial for Richie to position the cue ball behind the 8 ball in this position imo. From there Cliff will be forced to accomodate Richie and play into Richie's plan of getting balls uptable. Richie can kick at the stripe to gain that position from where he is now. But there is another option for Cliff, other than the one that I described, and that would be for Cliff to ...kick two cushions toward the three balls that are positioned by his side pocket. Who's the favorite? Can't really tell from here, i'd take 6/5 and bet on either player if I was given the opportunity.

Dr. Bill
 

tylerdurden

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I favor richie here. That is a deceptive layout at this point in that richi can put him in the upper left very easily while putting a ball by his hole, not on this shot, but upcoming shots. I think it would be more or less a coin toss from here 0 to 0, but it 0 to -3.
 

Dudley

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Not accounting for the ball count this layout can be very deceptive as to who it favors. It really comes down to who executes better. The traffic on Cliff's side can be an advantage or a detriment depending on how the sequence of shots happen.

On one hand there are allot of balls that could be opened up and run, on the other hand there is allot of traffic to prevent a big run from happening.

In my experience it doesn't take much for a layout like this to reverse favor especially if the balls nearest to the hole get clustered.

Dudley
 
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