Complimentary Angles and Complimentary Englis

mr3cushion

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Maybe Patrick, and I'm NOT trying to start an ELABORATE debate on this topic!

What do you and the group you represent feel the "complimentary angle" for a cue ball to contact a cushion is, and, what would be the best "complimentary English" to give the CB the best, "natural" forward roll?

P.S. if you can, if you decide to reply. Can we keep the "ultra" science lingo to a minimum, since there's some that feel I'm a slow learner! :rolleyes:
 
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Patrick Johnson

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Maybe Patrick, and I'm NOT trying to start an ELABORATE debate on this topic!

What do you and the group you represent feel the "complimentary angle" for a cue ball to contact a cushion is, and, what would be the best "complimentary English" to give the CB the best, "natural" forward roll?

P.S. if you can, if you decide to reply. Can we keep the "ultra" science lingo to a minimum, since there's some that feel I'm a slow learner! :rolleyes:
The group I represent? I wouldn't belong to a group that would have me.

Dr. Dave explains how to get "natural running English" in this video.

I explain the same thing below (posted long ago on AzB).

pj
chgo

Gears have teeth, so they don't rub against each other. That's why the "gearing english" metaphor is used - it describes exactly enough outside english so the CB's surface rolls across the OB's surface like a ball rolling across the table with no slipping, sliding or rubbing (like two gears meshing).

There's a simple way to judge the amount of outside spin that will be gearing english for any cut angle (or perfect running english on a rail): visualize the point on the CB that's opposite the CB/OB (or CB/rail) contact point, then offset the tip a little less than halfway (about 40%) to that point. Here's a drawing llustrating the method for running english on an object ball and on a rail:


View attachment 23883
 

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mr3cushion

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The group I represent? I wouldn't belong to a group that would have me.

Dr. Dave explains how to get "natural running English" in this video.

I explain the same thing below (posted long ago on AzB).

pj
chgo

Gears have teeth, so they don't rub against each other. That's why the "gearing english" metaphor is used - it describes exactly enough outside english so the CB's surface rolls across the OB's surface like a ball rolling across the table with no slipping, sliding or rubbing (like two gears meshing).

There's a simple way to judge the amount of outside spin that will be gearing english for any cut angle (or perfect running english on a rail): visualize the point on the CB that's opposite the CB/OB (or CB/rail) contact point, then offset the tip a little less than halfway (about 40%) to that CB point. Here's a drawing llustrating the method for running english on a rail:


View attachment 20573
Patrick; I guess you started your post before my, P.S.

Just, explain, in PLAIN English! What's is the most "natural" angle, (in degrees) to attack the cushion and with exactly, what English, SIMPLY PUT!
 

Patrick Johnson

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Patrick; I guess you started your post before my, P.S.

Just, explain, in PLAIN English! What's is the most "natural" angle, (in degrees) to attack the cushion and with exactly, what English, SIMPLY PUT!
I don't know what "the most natural angle of attack" is - or even what that means.

But it's well known that "natural running English" is created by adding outside spin with the tip contacting the CB at 2/5 the distance to the CB's "opposite contact point" (see my previous answer and Dr. Dave's video).

Nobody said there would be pop quizzes...

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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I don't know what "the most natural angle of attack" is - or even what that means.

But it's well known that "natural running English" is created by adding outside spin with the tip contacting the CB at 2/5 the distance to the CB's "opposite contact point" (see my previous answer and Dr. Dave's video).

Nobody said there would be pop quizzes...

pj
chgo
Maybe someone else will chime in, to enlighten both of us.
 

mr3cushion

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Patrick; Here's an example of my question in this thread!

View attachment 10684

You have 3 CB positions on the tables, what is the MOST "complimentary angle" in to the cushion. And, what "complimentary English" would you use?

While I was at it, I decided to include the, CORRECT numbers for playing a simple, "5" corner system. I left the CB and 3rd cushion numbering in a decimal point fashion, but, as we do in 3C, you can divide each diamond into, tenths, 10, 20, 30, 40....

I hope the diagram clears up some of the confusion for both of us.
 
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straightback

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Apparently, there is some gravity you are applying to the word "complimentary" that is not intuitive. Please define.

[Edit: Are you asking which one of the CB positions can yield an angle-in, angle-out (i.e., complimentary angles) without applying any English?]
 

mr3cushion

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Apparently, there is some gravity you are applying to the word "complimentary" that is not intuitive. Please define.

[Edit: Are you asking which one of the CB positions can yield an angle-in, angle-out (i.e., complimentary angles) without applying any English?]
NO, WITH English!
 

mr3cushion

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I don't understand those terms, Bill, so I can't answer.

pj
chgo
Patrick, it's too bad you never had the opportunity to have any conversations with Freddy! He would of brought up this, (semi) scientific theory eventually, relating to playing position in banks! You won't find it his books or DVD's, something we learned over 50 years ago.

I WON"T go into GREAT detail, but simply put, EVERY angle a CB travels into a cushion has a CORRECT English that should be applied to the CB.
 
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straightback

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You dodged my question. However, by and large, most every kick requires some form of running English to obtain angle-in, angle-out. The exceptions are shallow angles, such as your CB position "A."
 
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mr3cushion

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You dodged my question. However, by and large, most every kick requires some form of running English to obtain angle-in, angle-out. The exceptions are shallow angles, such as your CB position "A."

What question do YOU feel I dodged? Example "A" is an "acute" angle into the cushion, do YOU feel this "angle" doesn't need to have, "complimentary" English?
 

straightback

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Kindly define "complimentary angle" and "complimentary English." Damn, I meant angle "B" when I responded a minute ago - those type of shallow angles do not require much if any English for AIAO.
 

mr3cushion

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Kindly define "complimentary angle" and "complimentary English." Damn, I meant angle "B" when I responded a minute ago - those type of shallow angles do not require much if any English for AIAO.
The MOST "complimentary" angle to contact a cushion is at a 45 degree angle, some what the same as a, "half-ball" hit is the "purest" form of a "carom," equal parts of the ball... I believe the SAME effect happens at the 45 degree angle, not too much and not too little of the "face" of the CB is making contact with the "edge" of the cushion. And this angle IMO, requires maximum, 3 or 9 O'clock English to make the CB take the correct angle according to, "diamond systems!" The MORE, "acute" or "obtuse" the angle into the 1st cushion, the LESS you apply English towards the 12 O'clock position on the CB. This is why I decided to ADD the, "diamond system" numbers to the diagram!

Now, like I said, in the FIRST sentence of this thread, "I'm NOT looking for a, ELABORATE debate on the, "scientific" aspect of this theory!

You can prove or disprove my theory by testing it yourself at the table, or NOT.
 
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straightback

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The MOST "complimentary" angle to contact a cushion is at a 45 degree angle, some what the same as a, "half-ball" hit is the "purest" form of a "carom," equal parts of the ball... I believe the SAME effect happens at the 45 degree angle, not too much and not too little of the "face" of the CB is making contact with the "edge" of the cushion. And this angle IMO, requires maximum, 3 or 9 O'clock English to make the CB take the correct angle according to, "diamond systems!" The MORE, "acute" or "obtuse" the angle into the 1st cushion, the LESS you apply English towards the 12 O'clock position on the CB.

Now, like I said, in the FIRST sentence of this thread, "I'm NOT looking for a, ELABORATE debate on the, "scientific" aspect of this theory!

You can prove or disprove my theory by testing it yourself at the table, or NOT.
I'm not trying to disprove anything, just trying to understand your question. On a pool table, no one-rail kick requires 3 or 9 o'clock English to create AIAO, unless it is struck extremely hard.

Are you talking about multiple-rail kicks and keeping them on-system, perhaps?

BTW, thank you for imparting your billiard knowledge - it comes in handy for 1p. In fact, while I love Reyes, some of his magic is demystified once you understand a bit of 3C! I'm sure you probably feel the same way when you see pool players ogle over some his CB control.
 

straightback

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I believe the reason shallow angles require little to no English is that the CB does not grab the cushion very hard due to the angle, resulting in less cushion compression. Also, there is a tiny bit of slide, even on seasoned cloth, when you come in at this angle.

I'll bet that over 80% of your systems are premised upon running English.
 

mr3cushion

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I'm not trying to disprove anything, just trying to understand your question. On a pool table, no one-rail kick requires 3 or 9 o'clock English to create AIAO, unless it is struck extremely hard.

Are you talking about multiple-rail kicks and keeping them on-system, perhaps?

BTW, thank you for imparting your billiard knowledge - it comes in handy for 1p. In fact, while I love Reyes, some of his magic is demystified once you understand a bit of 3C! I'm sure you probably feel the same way when you see pool players ogle over some his CB control.
I am, referring to "multiple" cushion banks. But, don't think that "ONE" cushion banks or kicks always need to be struck at 12 O'clock because it's easier to calculate! Sometime the kick you face, DOESN'T allow it, (a ball in the way)!

I devised a , "one and two" cushion banking system 30 years ago, I call it, "The Distance Percentage System," that I just made public last year in one of my books, "Strokes...Systems n Strategies."

I appreciate that fact that you find my information interesting!
 
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straightback

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I am, referring to "multiple" cushion banks. But, don't think that "ONE" cushion banks or kicks always need to be struck at 12 O'clock because it's easier to calculate! Sometime the kick you face, DOESN'T allow it, (a ball in the way)!

I devised a , "one and two" cushion banking system 30 years ago, that I just made public last year in one of my books, "Strokes...Systems n Strategies."

I appreciate that fact that you find my information interesting!
I'm from Kentucky - I kick like a damn mule! You might have me, though, on multiple-rail hold kicking as these come up routinely in 3C, rarely in 1p, and never in banks. Some years back I forced myself to learn some of the common 3C systems and they have served me well. Even tougher for pool players is having to factor a million other variables that are minimized with 3C tables, such as cushion manufacturer, table manufacturer, cloth type, cloth age, humidity, type of balls, cleanliness of balls, etc., etc.
 
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mr3cushion

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I'm from Kentucky - I kick like a damn mule! You might have me, though, on multiple-rail hold kicking as these come up routinely in 3C, rarely in 1p, and never in banks. Some years back I forced myself to learn some of the common 3C systems and they have served me well. Even tougher for pool players is having to factor a million other variables that are minimized with 3C tables, such as cushion manufacturer, table manufacturer, cloth type, cloth age, humidity, type of balls, cleanliness of balls, etc., etc.
Banking or going off a ball comes up several times, after the "break" in 1 pocket! Banking 3 or 4 cushion towards your opponents pocket trying to hit an object ball by his pocket after the 4th cushion!

And in banks, making a "across-side or corner" to go 2 or 3 cushions to the other end of the table for position! Freddy, knew the VALUE of these types of banks to run balls!
 
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