vapros
Verified Member
Yes, indeed. A local doctor, speaking during an update from the governor, said that daily he treats patients in the hospital who still don't believe that Coronavirus is real.
A quarter of a million dead in this country.
Hospitals/ICU's at max and first reponders working to the point of exhaustion. IMO, that qualifies as an "emergency" which gives state authorities exceptional powers to respond in the interests of the health and well being of their citizens. It is certainly not "business as usual" and much of the previous was brought on by allowing people to "make their own decisions."
What is so hard about that to understand?
oh, and your citation, from Bulgaria no less, lol, is ca-ca: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/
Lou Figueroa
I shutter to my bones to say this but I agree with Lou. Hospitals are overrun, quarter of a million dead. I will listen to my wife who works as a manager for the 85 bed unit of our local hospital. She says it is real. Like it was said on Seinfeld one time, there are real and they are spectacular. Doc, there are certain aspects to some pool shots that don’t change no matter what your feelings about them may be. It is the same thing with this pandemic. Don’t be part of the group looking for conspiracy theories, you are WAY TO SMART for it. Your progressive friend, Kentucky.
I’ll admit that I up until recently would argue that it’s a hoax. There I said it
but in my defense Covid was nowhere in this area. Absolutely none!
i know of 10 family and friends that have it and are recovering. No deaths even nursing homes.
THATS 10 SINCE MARCH
So I’ve a new outlook. I’m still not hiding under the bed though like some might want.
~T
My original point was that I doubt that the Governor of Indiana individually has the constitutional authority to shut down commerce in the state, or to lock down their citizenry, if it is similar to most other state's constitutions. However their legislature may have that power. If I get the time, I'll look it up.A quarter of a million dead in this country.
Hospitals/ICU's at max and first reponders working to the point of exhaustion. IMO, that qualifies as an "emergency" which gives state authorities exceptional powers to respond in the interests of the health and well being of their citizens. It is certainly not "business as usual" and much of the previous was brought on by allowing people to "make their own decisions."
What is so hard about that to understand?
oh, and your citation, from Bulgaria no less, lol, is ca-ca: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/
Lou Figueroa
My original point was that I doubt that the Governor of Indiana individually has the constitutional authority to shut down commerce in the state, or to lock down their citizenry, if it is similar to most other state's constitutions. However their legislature may have that power. If I get the time, I'll look it up.
As regards the article stating the virologist Dr. Hodgkinson's opinions regarding face masks and social distancing, I don't know if you're saying that it is either: faked, unscientific, lies, or that you just don't choose to believe his views. In my opinion his scientific views are interesting, and have the patina of the truth. Hodgkinson's bona fides are unassailable. The story itself was originally featured on YouTube.
Mediabiasfactcheck.com is not a reliable service. It has been described in a Wikipedia article thusly: The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and [Dave]Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst." The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific." Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications.Media Bias/Fact Check - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
ClimateChangeDispatch.com states: That scoundrels like Mr. Van Zandt get much traction with his bogus ‘fact-checking’ website is a testimony for the need for more diligence and push back from honest scientists, other journalists, and citizens sickened by endless scientific fraud and misinformation.‘Media Bias/Fact Check’ Site Served With Cease And Desist, Gets Fact-Checked
A so-called fact-checking website was served with a 'cease and desist' for publishing defamatory claims.climatechangedispatch.com
~Doc
Lou, lose the smug condescending tone. We’re friends, remember? You’re trying to shoot the messenger by denigrating ZeroHedge and the Canadian pathologist/biotech CEO. I’ve seen a bunch of similar opinions from pathologists in England and the U.S., who risk their jobs to tell the truth as they know it. Even the World Health Organization has admitted that social distancing does not work. But Big Media will not cover those stories because it doesn’t fit the current narrative.er, I acknowledged your original point saying that under emergency statutes, state authorities have broad powers to act for the safety and in the interests of their citizens and courts in numerous states have already ruled to uphold closures and mask mandates.
Funny you mention the “unassailable” nature of Dr. Hodgkinson’s bona fides because, guess what, The Royal College of Canada just assailed them: http://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/cla...ade-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/ AND directly contradicted his opinion on masks. Which, by the way, goes contrary to the opinion of virtually every reputable infectious disease expert and immunologist in the world. (And telling us that his story was featured on YouTube does not enhance your effort to inflate his credibility.)
Lastly, regardless of anyone’s opinion of mediabiasfactcheck.com you nonetheless cited ZeroHedge. IOWs, you had to go to Bulgaria to find an extremist outlet that broadcast Dr. Hodgkinson’s off-the-wall opinion. You seem to find Wiki credible, so here’s what that site had to say about your source: “…Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,[c] including conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric[26] that has been associated with the US radical right[13][27] and a pro-Russian bias.”
So I ask again: what is so hard to understand about all this?
The virus threat is real and continues to grow exponentially; masks, social distancing, and other health protocols work; state authorities have emergency powers, that have been upheld by their various courts, to order closures and the wearing of masks to attempt to mitigate infections and illness.
Lou Figueroa
In my view the most at risk (elderly with 2 or more co-morbities) should have been warned and advised to quarantine and protect themselves. The rest of the population should have been left alone. The only sure way to get rid of covid was through herd immunity, just like they successfully achieved in Sweden.
~Doc
Lou, lose the smug condescending tone. We’re friends, remember? You’re trying to shoot the messenger by denigrating ZeroHedge and the Canadian pathologist/biotech CEO. I’ve seen a bunch of similar opinions from pathologists in England and the U.S., who risk their jobs to tell the truth as they know it. Even the World Health Organization has admitted that social distancing does not work. But Big Media will not cover those stories because it doesn’t fit the current narrative.
If you really believe that covid “continues to grow exponentially”, then the draconian compelling of masks, social distancing, shutting down commerce, throwing people out of work, ruining some lives, and causing misery and financial ruin for many-- none of these have worked.
In my view the most at risk (elderly with 2 or more co-morbities) should have been warned and advised to quarantine and protect themselves. The rest of the population should have been left alone. The only sure way to get rid of covid was through herd immunity, just like they successfully achieved in Sweden.
WebMd explains herd immunity:
Herd immunity, or community immunity, is when a large part of the population of an area is immune to a specific disease. If enough people are resistant to the cause of a disease, such as a virus or bacteria, it has nowhere to go.
While not every single individual may be immune, the group as a whole has protection. This is because there are fewer high-risk people overall. The infection rates drop, and the disease peters out.
Herd immunity protects at-risk populations. These include babies and those whose immune systems are weak and can’t get resistance on their own. [later they define necessary exposure rates of 50-67% of a population-- not referring to those who have become sick, but those who show presence of the virus in their systems-- what the media refers to as “cases”.]
If the U.S. had pursued this path, we may have achieved herd immunity by now. Instead the virus will likely live on until enough people have been exposed in order to neuter it. The lock downs and all the rest are simply prolonging the misery.
I’ve seen these types of discussions go on for days, but I don’t enjoy participating in them. I’ve stated my views, and that’s it for me.
~Doc
We lost a lot of valuable time early on with the outbreak. No one really knew what to do, what treatments worked and how to keep the population safe. Masks work, masks don't work and social distancing measures were hard to implement and police. Even now we have a large segment of the population that are antivaxers so even if and when a viable vaccine comes out and is available we may not be able to vaccinate the population. Dr. Fauchi is no Dr. Jonas Salk in terms of credibility; actually we don't have a credible doctor who the population can turn to for reliable information and coherent game plan. So, IMO this will be a long dark winter and spring as President Elect Biden has put it and more suffering, death and econimic turmoil will continue.
Dr Fauci is not a research type of guy. He deals with procedures and applications for a worst case scenario like we are facing. In that regard Salk is no Dr Fauci. More than any thing we need in the country is too quit blaming, quit acting like assholes, and for six weeks to six months do whatever we can to interrupt the explosion of this virus.Of course unless we will never see the inside of a pool room together. Then we can march in our little dress up fatigues and point weapons until we piss on our legs. In the meantime how can so many people agree about a match and disagree about serious event in our country? Stay home if you can, wear your mask, and learn to play geetai. Doc is offering on line zoom lessons. Purple Grape baby likes Purple Haze. Moby Grape likes Purple kool aid.It’s called the “fog of war.”
At the outset of an onslaught, which this pandemic is, strategies and tactics will evolve and even reverse. Regardless, in this case, experts figured out pretty fast that masks work -- there's no excuse now but hard cases still refuse to respect their fellow citizens. It's a 24 hour constant news cycle nowadays and early on mistakes will sometimes (often) be made.
As to Jonas Salk, lol, yes, you’re right, Dr. Fauci is no Jonas Salk -- who came home one day, boiled some needles, and injected his own three children with a vaccine that had only been tested at that point in monkeys.
What a guy.
Lou Figueroa
Surely no one here would have the unmitigated gall to offer over/under wagers on the number of pandemic deaths. Surely.