efren needs 1 wwyd

NH Steve

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Everyone is a little extra edgy these days it seems — with plenty of good reason unfortunately. I would suggest all of us cutting each other a little extra slack — coming and going in the exchanges.

BTW all in all this was a wonderful wwyd lll — thank you, and many thanks to everyone who chipped in to make it both interesting and informative.

Thanks again!!
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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.

You have to remember that ball will bite more on a GC then it will on a diamond.
The GC's I played on in the 70's bank excellent with the cushions they used, unless the cushions got tired, and then they would create extra spin on the ob, and you would get the ob grabbing or being thrown more. I do not know when Brunswick went to a different composition on their cushions.
I have never played on a 9' Diamond but in watching videos I do know they are real sensitive to spin on the ob. Whitey
 

ChicagoFats

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The GC's I played on in the 70's bank excellent with the cushions they used, unless the cushions got tired, and then they would create extra spin on the ob, and you would get the ob grabbing or being thrown more. I do not know when Brunswick went to a different composition on their cushions.
I have never played on a 9' Diamond but in watching videos I do know they are real sensitive to spin on the ob. Whitey
It is very difficult to turn a ball on a diamond compared to a gold crown. (assuming all other equip is the same i.e. balls, cue, tips, cloth, etc.)
 

lll

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Thanks to all who participated constructively
remember guys
we are here because we love onepocket
there are ways to tell someone their shot is stupid without calling them stupid... :ROFLMAO: :giggle:
I know because I have posted many stupid shots.... :eek: :)
 
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Tom Wirth

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Beatle,
it wasnt person specific. just a comedy. maybe you do need to lighten up.

Well this is person specific. Whether your little song was directed at Sappo, me, both of us, or whom ever you may have had in mind, Personally, I saw no humor in it. I've never found humor in the putting down of others. Especially when the comic happens to be hiding behind an alias.. I found it to be offensive and immature. f you wish to denigrate people over the internet, whoever they may be. you should have the decency to be up front about who you are or keep your fingers off the keyboard.. You may be a nice guy but posts like yours doesn't lead me to believe that to be true.

And of course it was "person specific" why else would you have posted your song?

Tom
 

wincardona

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I agree with you Bill. Forcing an up table game is certainly the right play. I just think it may have been a bit problematic to do so in this situation. Stretched out and jacked up over the one had to make that shot somewhat difficult. Had Efren not left the striped ball hanging in the side like he did Shane could not have put Efren in the position he found himself. By crossing the stripe towards the middle of his side rail and bringing the cue ball in the neighborhood of the first diamond above the side pocket he would have secured the pink and the game. This shot was far easier to perform and carried trapping elements as well. Don't you agree?

Tom
Tom,
I like this thinking. Also bill, my thought of pocketing the 1 in the side, or KY's thought of thinning it, and doubling em up table with the 15 blocker, what's not good with your table position from there?
I apologize for not getting back with you earlier Bill but in reference to your question on the option you referenced above is that your shot is too aggressive considering the score. Pocketing the 1ball in the side pocket will benefit your opponent because he needs all the remaining balls and the 1ball is a huge ball for you to leave it where it lays and create an up-table game in another fashion. Now if the score was a bit closer for instance if the shooter needed three or four balls as opposed to one ball then your option would be much better served.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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I agree with you Bill. Forcing an up table game is certainly the right play. I just think it may have been a bit problematic to do so in this situation. Stretched out and jacked up over the one had to make that shot somewhat difficult. Had Efren not left the striped ball hanging in the side like he did Shane could not have put Efren in the position he found himself. By crossing the stripe towards the middle of his side rail and bringing the cue ball in the neighborhood of the first diamond above the side pocket he would have secured the pink and the game. This shot was far easier to perform and carried trapping elements as well. Don't you agree?

Tom
Tom, I seldom disagree with your shot choice, however, in this situation where the shooter needs only one ball and the remaining balls excluding the 1ball are in play then it's imperative that you choose an option that will force an up-table game if there's one that's available. I like your option with playing off the stripe sending the cue ball to the diamond before the side pocket if the playing off the pink option wasn't available. Also, you mentioned that your option carries trapping elements as well but that's overkill in this type of a situation in regard to the score and where the balls are positioned. Conventional thinking here is to search for an option that forces an up-table game and any other strategy would be a distant second choice. IMO.

Dr. Bill
 

beatle

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i said it wasnt person specific. it was a comedy on the situation. if you are too thick to see that i am sorry.
as it turns out you are the one now being person specific. let it go please. as a i said what was the case.
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom, I seldom disagree with your shot choice, however, in this situation where the shooter needs only one ball and the remaining balls excluding the 1ball are in play then it's imperative that you choose an option that will force an up-table game if there's one that's available. I like your option with playing off the stripe sending the cue ball to the diamond before the side pocket if the playing off the pink option wasn't available.
Dr. Bill

Post (5) One other thought. I know Efren likes to spin balls like that pink ball nearer towards his pocket sending the cue ball to the far side rail, using the cluster of balls to hide that pink ball. This would be a fine shot to pull off but the problem I see in executing this shot is that the cue ball is so far down table it will be difficult to reach. Efren is unique and may be able to do it. I'd stick with crossing the 12.
Tom

He chose not to do that. It raises the question, why?

Also, you mentioned that your option carries trapping elements as well but that's overkill in this type of a situation in regard to the score and where the balls are positioned. Conventional thinking here is to search for an option that forces an up-table game and any other strategy would be a distant second choice. IMO.

Dr. Bill

Bill, You know how much I respect your thoughts on this game and I thank you for your insight. Please consider that as a given. One of the joys I have on this site is to banter One Pocket strategy ideas around with you. I do ask that you take a look at the possible responses Shane may have to the position my shot would present. Set it up if you can. The way I see it, he has no response that will not either lose him the game immediately or create the same up table game we both see as the lock on the door. Maybe you can find something I've overlooked. BTW I never knew there was such a thing as overkill in a pool game unless we're talking about stalling.

I await your thoughts.

Tom
 

wincardona

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Tom, I seldom disagree with your shot choice, however, in this situation where the shooter needs only one ball and the remaining balls excluding the 1ball are in play then it's imperative that you choose an option that will force an up-table game if there's one that's available. I like your option with playing off the stripe sending the cue ball to the diamond before the side pocket if the playing off the pink option wasn't available.
Dr. Bill

Post (5) One other thought. I know Efren likes to spin balls like that pink ball nearer towards his pocket sending the cue ball to the far side rail, using the cluster of balls to hide that pink ball. This would be a fine shot to pull off but the problem I see in executing this shot is that the cue ball is so far down table it will be difficult to reach. Efren is unique and may be able to do it. I'd stick with crossing the 12.
Tom

He chose not to do that. It raises the question, why?

Also, you mentioned that your option carries trapping elements as well but that's overkill in this type of a situation in regard to the score and where the balls are positioned. Conventional thinking here is to search for an option that forces an up-table game and any other strategy would be a distant second choice. IMO.

Dr. Bill


Bill, You know how much I respect your thoughts on this game and I thank you for your insight. Please consider that as a given. One of the joys I have on this site is to banter One Pocket strategy ideas around with you. I do ask that you take a look at the possible responses Shane may have to the position my shot would present. Set it up if you can. The way I see it, he has no response that will not either lose him the game immediately or create the same up table game we both see as the lock on the door. Maybe you can find something I've overlooked. BTW I never knew there was such a thing as overkill in a pool game unless we're talking about stalling.

I await your thoughts.

Tom
Ok Tom, here we go. Why Reyes chose the shot he did is a mystery to me when both the crossing of the 12ball is available and playing off the pink was available. Let's take the playing off the pink first. I believe the stretch would be somewhat manageable for Reyes to reach the shot with his right hand, if not then playing the shot opposite hand wouldn't present a problem for Reyes as well. Hmm..I can't figure it out. Crossing the 12ball looked to be the safest way to play off the 12 with both repositioning the 12 and also positioning the cue ball to a better spot. Reyes chose to move the 12ball two cushions which IMO would put more uncertainty in the safeness of the shot.

Now I'll address the overkill reply I mentioned in regard to choosing your shot choice. Not that your shot choice is a bad one it's not but IMO it extends the expedition in starting the up table process, allow me. Let's say your shot choice repositions the cue ball 1/2 diamond short of the side pocket and approx 2" off the cushion, reasonable? From that position Shane, then can cut the 1ball into the side pocket and send the cue ball around the stack ending up near the top rail 1-1/2 diamonds from the top pocket. He would of then put the 1ball back in play and extended the process for the up table game. Of course, providing the moved 12ball precludes him from doing that but like I mentioned there could be that possibility, however, playing off the pink eliminates that possibility and any other possibility of extending the up table process. What I mean about "overkill" is that if you are going to use the "trapping element" as one of the reasons to support your shot choice then it's overkill because it doesn't trap your opponent from a reply and the design of the shot is the strength of the shot, not the trapping element.
My thinking on this predicament or any other situation similar to this one is to get the up-table process going as soon as possible. No need to pass the ball 10 ft. out when you have a slam dunk. So to speak.✌

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Thanks Bill, I'll take a look at that cut on the one and spinning 3/4 rails to the top rail. It is an option I hadn't considered. Just off the top of my head I would think I could then just clear the 5 ball 3 rails into my upper corner and out of play possibly sticking the cue ball onto the 8 and 6. That 5 ball is an important ball for Shane and therefore an important ball for Efren to remove from play. At that point I would then have both the 5 and 12 out of play.

My theory is to always try to limit the most probable responses my opponent may employ. It this way I can more accurately anticipate what he will do and plan more accurately my next reply. It's a simple variation of the old step to the table and plan 3 shots routine.

I greatly appreciate your input. You make these discussions fun and thought provoking.

Tom
 

wincardona

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We also appreciate both billy and tom.
Thanks Fats. I appreciated the wwyd's more back in the day when we had Freddy, Hacker, SanJose, and the Ghost going back and forth with the nuances of every option, it opened eyes, anyways thanks again.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Thanks Bill, that made me feel really appreciated.
Sheesh!

Tom
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Bill and Tom, I am your huckleberry, and sense Bill misses this exchange of yesteryear, I'll hang in there and discuss this thread with you guys in more depth. There has been a few times in past wwyd's that I have not fully spoken up, for of not wanting to engage in 'my shot is better than yours', as you guys are now doing, but his time I will speak up.

My shot on the 4 in placing it in front of my pocket is far superior than either one of your guy's shot selections. That 4 ball is now protected from a direct kick off of the foot rail. Why would I want to prolong this game and create an up table game by leaving the 4 ball on the 1st. diamond as Bill suggests for this now leaves enough room to directly kick into it off of the foot rail. There is no need to start the up table game now, when you still can hold the 4 ball as an advantage. This is all in my post of how the game could be possibly won now.

Tom, you corrected your position of the cue ball from in front of the side pocket to now by the third diamond past the side pocket. Which of course is better for it is now much harder to cross corner bank the 9, as I pointed out is what I would do if you were to leave me there. I actually made a video of this whole scenario but decided not to post it, but I could of safely ran a few balls from that position. Also there is a window, as I pointed out that the cb can pass directly through to take out the 5, that you need to be careful of. Your shot from the 3rd. diamond does leave an easy kick into 4, thus taking it out and effectively starting the up table game that Bill speaks of.

In doing my shot on the 4 ball in placing it in front of the hole I acknowledged that this shot is only available if in fact no balls bank for Shane, a point that both of you are not pointing out in your shot selections. But probably our viewers will assume this, for why would anyone leave Shane a cross corner bank!

I respect both of your shot selections, and the merits of your shots as you have both well laid out, but in turn no one seems to acknowledge my shot on the 4, which is far different than leaving the 4 on the 1st. diamond. I do not think there is much of a problem here except my shot on the 4 is not getting acknowledged, which generally is ok and often the case, but in this case I think it is a superior choice.

I acknowledge that Efren with his shot selection is baiting Shane to take out the 4, and probably for the reason that Bill pointed out, to get the up table game started. Bill knowledge of the importance of getting into the up table game is way beyond my knowledge, so as others have pointed out, thanks for this input! Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/iZoUYjRmq3LN9sZY8 I now have the ob positioned correctly.

This shot is only for viewers to realize that this shot is available with the position of the ob. I used inside reverse english on the shot which transfers spin to ob and shortens it up enabling it to be relocated in front of my hole. On a diamond it could be possible to make it for they shorten up shots well.
But, the draw back for this shot is that there is a window to take balls out, that is why I state that this shot is for viewers to realize that this shot is available, only. But the window eliminates it as a viable shot in this scenario.

Kentucky beat me on this game winning bank that was just about like this, whereas the inside reverse english caught well on Artemis cushions, and the bank went right in the hole. Whitey



























T
 

wincardona

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Thanks Bill, that made me feel really appreciated.
Sheesh!

Tom
No Tom I didn't mean it the way you took it I enjoy debating positions with you. You seem to be the only one that is willing to debate a position unlike years ago when a group of players were always going back and forth with defending and breaking down options.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Bill and Tom, I am your huckleberry, and sense Bill misses this exchange of yesteryear, I'll hang in there and discuss this thread with you guys in more depth. There has been a few times in past wwyd's that I have not fully spoken up, for of not wanting to engage in 'my shot is better than yours', as you guys are now doing, but his time I will speak up.

My shot on the 4 in placing it in front of my pocket is far superior than either one of your guy's shot selections. That 4 ball is now protected from a direct kick off of the foot rail. Why would I want to prolong this game and create an up table game by leaving the 4 ball on the 1st. diamond as Bill suggests for this now leaves enough room to directly kick into it off of the foot rail. There is no need to start the up table game now, when you still can hold the 4 ball as an advantage. This is all in my post of how the game could be possibly won now.

Tom, you corrected your position of the cue ball from in front of the side pocket to now by the third diamond past the side pocket. Which of course is better for it is now much harder to cross corner bank the 9, as I pointed out is what I would do if you were to leave me there. I actually made a video of this whole scenario but decided not to post it, but I could of safely ran a few balls from that position. Also there is a window, as I pointed out that the cb can pass directly through to take out the 5, that you need to be careful of. Your shot from the 3rd. diamond does leave an easy kick into 4, thus taking it out and effectively starting the up table game that Bill speaks of.

In doing my shot on the 4 ball in placing it in front of the hole I acknowledged that this shot is only available if in fact no balls bank for Shane, a point that both of you are not pointing out in your shot selections. But probably our viewers will assume this, for why would anyone leave Shane a cross corner bank!

I respect both of your shot selections, and the merits of your shots as you have both well laid out, but in turn no one seems to acknowledge my shot on the 4, which is far different than leaving the 4 on the 1st. diamond. I do not think there is much of a problem here except my shot on the 4 is not getting acknowledged, which generally is ok and often the case, but in this case I think it is a superior choice.

I acknowledge that Efren with his shot selection is baiting Shane to take out the 4, and probably for the reason that Bill pointed out, to get the up table game started. Bill knowledge of the importance of getting into the up table game is way beyond my knowledge, so as others have pointed out, thanks for this input! Whitey
Whitey, my option with coming off the 4ball will put it around the first diamond and position the cue ball on the opponents side rail 2_1/2 diamonds up. From there my opponent must respect the 4ball and his only option will be to play off the bottom of the stack which will lead to an up table game.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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It's all good Bill. I understood. I just thought I'd have a little fun with you.
You've known Freddy, Ghost, and Dick a long time. We've all seen some of the Hacker and you battles it out in wwyd situations that challenged you both in more than one way. It is hard not to miss the camaraderie you shared with them.

Tom
 
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