efren needs 1 wwyd

Tom Wirth

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Whitey, are you aware that the "Hacker" was a player who use to to post quite regularly here on OP.org? Dr. Bill and he use to get into it all the time. I'm not sure if you know that or if you were thinking I was tossing out a slur your way. NO such thing. You are Aces with me buddy!
I can be very blunt and lack PC but name calling isn't my style.
Tom
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Tom, well how would anyone but old heads know what you meant by 'Hacker', I appreciate you clarifying it. I am not here to discuss hackers, I want some one step up and say their shot selection is better than placing the 4 ball in front of the hole, and why!

No worries, I am having a great time, and I hope others start speaking up no matter who they are discussing the shots with! Whitey
 

Tom Wirth

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Whitey, If you look at my post (5) you will see I suggested that Efren may very well spin off the edge of the pink ball (4 ball I think it is) and run the cue ball past the 5 and hide the 4. This is a typical shot Efren has employed for years. Is this the shot you were suggesting as well? If so, Dr. Bill and I just had that discussion and Bill couldn't understand why he didn't play it. I was thinking he may have felt being stretched out and jacked up may have been the reason. Another may have been that there was a possibility that a cross corner bank may have been looming over there. Who knows. Pictures may not always tell the whole story.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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Whitey, I just watched your latest video and the one option you neglected to mention was the easy kick at the 4 ball.. That kick is as natural and safe as Fort knox.

Tom
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I set these wwyd's up, so I know exactly why Efren did not play to the other side of the stack. I back up every shot or statement I make, everyone knows that. You can not leave Shane on that side of the rack!
If you set up this wwyd then shots like leaving the 4 on the 1st diamond could makes absolutely good sense if in fact it blocks the cross corner bank on either the 3 or the 9, 'and' it takes away the shot I just did.
And it will eventually lead to an up table game.
No worries, I am still having fun! Whitey
 

Billy Jackets

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The GC's I played on in the 70's bank excellent with the cushions they used, unless the cushions got tired, and then they would create extra spin on the ob, and you would get the ob grabbing or being thrown more. I do not know when Brunswick went to a different composition on their cushions.
I have never played on a 9' Diamond but in watching videos I do know they are real sensitive to spin on the ob. Whitey
Diamonds bank great ,once you understand they are ultra speed sensitive, meaning , they only bank true at the correct speed too hard waaaaay short , too soft waaay long kind of like the 3 bears story. Brunswicks usually are more forgiving in
my experience. But they have limitations on what banks will go.
It's all good Bill. I understood. I just thought I'd have a little fun with you.
You've known Freddy, Ghost, and Dick a long time. We've all seen some of the Hacker and you battles it out in wwyd situations that challenged you both in more than one way. It is hard not to miss the camaraderie you shared with them.

Tom
I never once got the feeling they were "joking" around. I must have missed that part.
 

Tom Wirth

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Whitey, I think either it's you that is confused or it is I. Not sure which. What shot are we talking about now? If it is the shot where you bank the nine cross corner and leave the cue ball near the one, then that leaves the easy cross corner kick at the 4 ball. Right? With the nine along the side rail the kick at the 4 is a very safe shot. Correct?

Whitey if you go back and read my (5 post) I said; cross it to your side and send the cue ball off the top rail and down near the far side pocket. I would hope you would give me a bit of leeway here and understand this to mean roughly between the diamond above the side and the pocket. II would hope you would give me enough credit to see at what point a cross corner bank was available Either way, it's okay.

I do like your imaginative shot stroking through the 6 and 8 sending the cue ball behind the 4. I suppose it may help a bit but not really. Once those balls are separated they become easy to move up table especially when the cue ball is near the foot rail. From the position you left the cue ball I would soft roll, nudge into the 4 keeping the cue ball and 4 together where the only option for Shane will be to do the same. If not that, I could bank the 4 off his side rail and onto my side rail leaving the cue ball on the foot rail. From that point on I can guarantee the balls are somehow, someway, eventually going up table. Sometimes greatly executed shots can also be strategic missteps.

Shane cannot leave the cue ball anywhere near the foot rail. That will certainly lead to the up table game Dr. Bill has been advocating all along.
Just trying to be helpful Whitey. I'm not in the market of putting anyone down.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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I never once got the feeling they were "joking" around. I must have missed that part.
No, I guess they weren't joking but they were for the most part adamant in their shot choices. I've recently been accused of the same thing. It takes a lot to sway me off my shot choices. I guess you've noticed that.
Billy, Those two were constantly at each other's throats but I felt a sense of kinship between them. You could tell they liked each other., At least that's the way I saw it.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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Hey Whitey, Keep 'em coming! It is always refreshing to find fresh faces who have plenty of knowledge and who don't mind the pushing and pulling of One Pocket strategic thinking.

Tom
 

Kybanks

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Thinning off the pink ball can be dangerous depending where the cb and pink ball stops. There could a long railer with the stripe and cb 3 rails. Totally free if the pink ball gets on the long rail.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Ok Tom, thanks for the acknowledgement and comment, I appreciate it!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hBQbgW8LWX8p5LGD9
This shot, if it was set up more natural then I could control the cb to head rail, and it then would be an excellent choice if you like challenging your opponent to take on the back cut on the 5.
But as it lays then this shot is very challenging in controlling the cb. It is also very speed sensitive for if stroked to hard then the stripe comes exposed along the long rail which would be very devastating to give up a bank to the opponents pocket with this layout. Whitey
 

Tom Wirth

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Ok Tom, thanks for the acknowledgement and comment, I appreciate it!

Hey Whitey,
Are you sure? I've kind of been beating up on your shot selections a bit. That, but not your imagination for shots, or your ability to execute them. Both of those skills are there. You demonstrate nice cue ball control too.
The trouble is, if you don't mind my saying so, is these shots don't stand up as viable options in this scenario. Needing one, and I think you mentioned it yourself, would not be practical to bring the 12 ball towards the foot rail. As far as challenging your opponent to cut the 5 ball; It brings back memories of an ancient saying I learned as a small pup in the pool hall kennel. "Never give a sucker a desperation shot that can beat you!" Not to say Shane is a sucker. Quite the contrary. It's just that he is a huge underdog to win this game. It is situations like this that I like to say your most formidable opponent is yourself and your unforced errors. That is what cost Efren this game. Damn, He didn't have to attempt that cut on the one. It figures that he would, but controlling the cue ball was far more important than making that cut on the one. Hell, he could have even taken a foul if it came right down to it.

Stick with simple solutions whenever possible. there will be plenty of wwyd threads and time enough for you to use that fertile imagination of yours.

All the best to you sir and thank you for all your videos. They are most enjoyable.

Tom
 
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beatle

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well i still like my shot which is close to efrins. two rail the 12 to get close to the 12 and leave him around the 2nd diamond up from the bottom rail. this way he has no real shots. and the up table game chances are increased.

what happened is efrin got unlucky and put it in front of the pocket. so playing results of that bad break doesnt negate efrins shot choice. if he tied up the two balls or even just left the 12 on the long rail it would ruin shanes chaces of winning in one inning and that is the prime directive.
its only fair to play results if he hit it the way he wanted or made a bad choice. which is possible considering it did go where it ended up.

clearly the consensus was it wasnt smart to shoot at his hole there. and i agree with everyone that was bad.
 

beatle

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keith and tom i can be abrasive when i post as i don't use smileys and such. this is the internet though and everyone is different and never how you want them to be. in this case it was not directed at either of you. but there will be more to come in the future. so fasten your seat belts.
  • 🙂 i probably used the wrong one as i dont know what they mean and dont care.
 

sappo

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keith and tom i can be abrasive when i post as i don't use smileys and such. this is the internet though and everyone is different and never how you want them to be. in this case it was not directed at either of you. but there will be more to come in the future. so fasten your seat belts.
  • 🙂 i probably used the wrong one as i dont know what they mean and dont care.
Beatle, its over forget about it. K
 

Tom Wirth

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Yes Beatle, If it was just a joke and not directed an anyone I'll accept that and move on if you will do the same.
No hard feelings.
I'm under a lot of strain these days and everything gets on my last nerve.
Tom
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Thanks Dr. Bill,
I had to prove that the shot was there to myself. In the past I have also had to prove that your shot was there, and it was. Thanks for responding to my post!
Your shot does exactly as you suggested it would, it leaves coming off the lower part of the rack, which directly leads to an up table game.

Now if Bill had the advantage that Efren has and go to the other side of the stack, and then realize that balls could bank then his shot could be played to 1-1/2 diamond to block those banks, and still insure the up table game. Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/E43ZuMae7ttRW2hM9 This is the picture taken from the shot of following through the 6/8. You guys can do a wwyd off of this if you like. Your shot, your hole is by the cb.

Tom, yes I am ok! I do not have a problem discussing the wwyd with you. I would of never posted these shots if I would not of mistaken the meaning of Hacker, Which red fired me up, and now of which I deleted my hacker post.
I kind of like my position!

I see you do not like my return shots off of your shot selection leave. You do know on the 9 ball bank which I purposely set up so it would not go in my hole, even though Larry also stated the 9, 3, and 6 goes on a bank. You yourself ask of Bill; "why do you think Efren did not leave Shane on the other side of the rack", in trying once again to promote your shot selection. So it is a given that probably balls do bank.
But, I came within 1/2" of burying you behind the 1 on the cross over bank on the 9. But I did not, so you now have a kick at the 4, of which Efren could of did as I did, or he could of done off of Shane's shot instead of shooting the 1. But, he did not want to sell out a bank on the 4, or to chance giving Shane any chance to further his position. Efren obviously wants to get to the up table game as Bill points out.

Dr. Bill discuss this with you, that your shot does not lend to an up table game. I also stated that I can bank the 9, and I believe it goes right in the hole. I knew of the 6/8 shot but did not bring it up. But, you are still defending your shot selection to the end, and even now that I have put you by your hole behind your 4.

I have to wonder if Efren was kicking himself after loosing this game for not taking the 1 ball twist bank. Grady sets this up much harder and does 80%. Efren has been in the finals of DCC banks, this shot is a very high percentage shot for him. When I played for real, I made this shot with a very high % with the ob froze to the rail. I just wonder how many of our members that said they would not take this shot, would take it now.

Plus is Efren also kicking himself for trying to pocket the 1 plus play the cb.
When you got a shot to win, such as the 1 ball cut, I would then go all in making the shot vs. making the shot plus trying to play safe when the safe was of this nature of going three times across side with cb. He makes the 1 ball cut no problem if he only shoots to make it. I know ;you will argue this, but just think just how much easier it is to make the 1.

Thanks for further discussing these scenarios, I appreciate it. Whitey
 
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Tom Wirth

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/E43ZuMae7ttRW2hM9 This is the picture taken from the shot of following through the 6/8. You guys can do a wwyd off of this if you like. Your shot, your hole is by the cb.

Tom, yes I am ok! I do not have a problem discussing the wwyd with you. I would of never posted these shots if I would not of mistaken the meaning of Hacker, Which red fired me up, and now of which I deleted my hacker post.
I kind of like my position!

Whitey, I see you are a lot like me. You have belief in your shot choices and you stick with them until you become somehow convinced otherwise. And that takes a lot of convincing. Good on you! Now, as to the response to the position you show from the picture. I will be happy to offer my take. I assume the remaining balls are still where they were before you shot your follow though shot. I think you will agree you hit it about as well as you could reasonably expect. I have numerous options here. My task is obvious, I must keep the cue ball along the foot rail. I could: come off the 5 ball and draw down; bank the 4 and stick the cue ball.; give you the 4; kick and stick the cue ball on the foot rail; or, bank the 4 any old way that allows the cue ball to drift forward under the ball you have nearest you pocket. Now this shot, if struck well is a killer.
I see you do not like my return shots off of your shot selection leave. You do know on the 9 ball bank which I purposely set up so it would not go in my hole, even though Larry also stated the 9, 3, and 6 goes on a bank. You yourself ask of Bill; "why do you think Efren did not leave Shane on the other side of the rack", in trying once again to promote your shot selection. So it is a given that probably balls do bank. This is probably true.
But, I came within 1/2" of burying you behind the 1 on the cross over bank on the 9. Keep in mind, you brought the cue ball further down table than I had suggested. This gave you a better angle for the cross corner on the 9 ball. Also, once the 9 is gone you will have no follow up shot. I don't know if you can reasonably plan on hooking the cue ball behind the one. Nice work if you can get it. But I did not, so you now have a kick at the 4, of which Efren could of did as I did, or he could of done off of Shane's shot instead of shooting the 1. But, he did not want to sell out a bank on the 4, or to chance giving Shane any chance to further his position. Efren obviously wants to get to the up table game as Bill points out. This I am not convinced of. Efren is rarely anxious to get involved in up table games. He should be, but the evidence does not support that.

Dr. Bill discuss this with you, that your shot does not lend to an up table game. I haven't gotten into this topic with the good Doctor but I disagree with him on that point. I also stated that I can bank the 9, and I believe it goes right in the hole. I knew of the 6/8 shot but did not bring it up. But, you are still defending your shot selection to the end, and even now that I have put you by your hole behind your 4. Yep, I am and you are continually pressing your points as well. Is that not as it should be? This is what it is all about Whitey. This is what makes this game so interesting. Everyone has their methods for playing this game. You have yours and I have mine and the only way to settle the matter is to actually play the game. As they say, "It's where the rubber meets the road." BTW That's not a challenge. Please keep in mind we are very limited by the restrictions placed on us by not being at the table. There are subtleties we may not be aware of by images alone. We are all subject to misconceptions so we all have to give a little.

I have to wonder if Efren was kicking himself after loosing this game for not taking the 1 ball twist bank. Grady sets this up much harder and does 80%. Efren has been in the finals of DCC banks, this shot is a very high percentage shot for him. When I played for real, I made this shot with a very high % with the ob froze to the rail. I just wonder how many of our members that said they would not take this shot, would take it now.
You should take a poll. My vote is a resounding no, not ever while needing one. And I hit it pretty sporty too.
Plus is Efren also kicking himself for trying to pocket the 1 plus play the cb. Maybe for a moment or two. Efren seems to get over his screw ups pretty fast.
When you got a shot to win, such as the 1 ball cut, I would then go all in making the shot vs. making the shot plus trying to play safe when the safe was of this nature of going three times across side with cb. He makes the 1 ball cut no problem if he only shoots to make it. I know ;you will argue this, but just think just how much easier it is to make the 1. I didn't see him actually shoot the shot. We can't know what he was thinking at the time unless he was asked, and I haven't heard anything. Have you?

Thanks for further discussing these scenarios, I appreciate it. Whitey
Me too, Whitey. Thank you.

Tom
 
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