End game: Bustamante vs. Ochoa

twister

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This was the last game of the 2010 DCC one pocket semi-final match between Bustamante and Ochoa. Busta really should have won this game (and the match as this was the hill game), but he let Ochoa back into this game twice. Anyways, at this point Busta is down 6-7 and has pocket A. It's Busta's shot and he ends up selling out. I have an idea for what I'd like in this situation, but I want to see what everyone else would have done. So, what do you think he should have shot?

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androd

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Maybe something like this. :) hope you don't make it in the side. :rolleyes: LOL
Rod.

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SJDinPHX

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awkward spot, only see one shot...for me.

awkward spot, only see one shot...for me.

The angle is not the best, but I have always had confidence in a one rail kick, in that situation. You have to hit it pretty bad to sell out a shot, and with decent speed, the cue ball should wind up well up table.

Good chance to maybe luck in the 6 ball, or at least put the 1 ball over by your pocket. I'd be interested to see what Busty did.
Even if you mis-judge it, and miss the 1 ball kick completely, you do not have to sell out the ball you have to spot up. Your cue ball should wind up by the upper RH pocket.

Against an equal opponent, that would be my choice every time.

PS.. The shot is much easier than figuring out the %$@#^&# new edit function...:eek:
 
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lll

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dick,although ghost used to like shots like that you would ride him severly on that shot choice. what makes this situatiion different:confused:
 

NH Steve

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SJDinPHX said:
The angle is not the best, but I have always had confidence in a one rail kick, in that situation. You have to hit it pretty bad to sell out a shot, and with decent speed, the cue ball should wind up well up table.

Good chance to maybe luck in the 6 ball, or at least put the 1 ball over by your pocket. I'd be interested to see what Busty did.
Even if you mis-judge it, and miss the 1 ball kick completely, you do not have to sell out the ball you have to spot up. Your cou ball should wind up by the upper RH pocket.

Against an equal opponent, that would be my choice every time.

PS.. The shot is much easier than figuring out the %$@#^&# new edit function...:eek:
Do you mean this shot, Dick? And like you allude to, 'tiz better to hit this too thin than too thick -- consequently I am usually trying to hit it slightly rail first (a two-rail kick, in other words).

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SJDinPHX

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NH Steve said:
Do you mean this shot, Dick? And like you allude to, 'tiz better to hit this too thin than too thick -- consequently I am usually trying to hit it slightly rail first (a two-rail kick, in other words).

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AJli4BWkK4CTqK4DQwL4ENuK4FAGh4GLRL4HIXL3ISsL3JVuM3KDRM3LGcM3MJVL3NMXM3OPaL1POSf4Qdvt3RcQq3UJli3UHAn3UCSd4UNCS4aAGh4aVUe1kOSf3kbGX3kMGf3kMWm2kNEN3uCUG@[/CUETABLE]
Yes thats the shot Steve, thanks. And yes, it is ideally a 2 rail kick.

And lll, (Larry)...I didn't put Ghost down for shooting those shots...I DO razz him about his betting he will MAKE them reegularly.
Also, many times there may be better options...because shorter angles can increase your risk factor of selling out a return bank... It all depends on the entire layout, ball score, etc...I normally will favor the kick, but you are putting words in my mouth. :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
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twister

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SJDinPHX said:
The angle is not the best, but I have always had confidence in a one rail kick, in that situation. You have to hit it pretty bad to sell out a shot, and with decent speed, the cue ball should wind up well up table.

Good chance to maybe luck in the 6 ball, or at least put the 1 ball over by your pocket. I'd be interested to see what Busty did.
Even if you mis-judge it, and miss the 1 ball kick completely, you do not have to sell out the ball you have to spot up. Your cue ball should wind up by the upper RH pocket.

Against an equal opponent, that would be my choice every time.

PS.. The shot is much easier than figuring out the %$@#^&# new edit function...:eek:
Well, that's indeed the shot that Busta shot. He managed to hit underneath the 1 (it wasn't frozen to the rail, but it wasn't off the rail much) on the kick so that it went above the 6 and over to the side rail and back towards the center of the table while the cue ball went uptable and back down a bit, leaving Sylver a more or less straight shot to his hole. Oddly enough, Busta shot the same type of kick the shot before when the balls were in similar positions, except that the 1 was closer to Sylver's pocket which made the kick easier to execute and also the 6 was off the end rail about a ball or two so a lot more good things could have happened the first time he shot this shot. The second time around (which this diagram is referencing) was more certainly more difficult.

I'll hold off a little on posting the shot I was thinking about as I want to see more people's ideas first.
 

SJDinPHX

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twister said:
Well, that's indeed the shot that Busta shot. He managed to hit underneath the 1 (it wasn't frozen to the rail, but it wasn't off the rail much) on the kick so that it went above the 6 and over to the side rail and back towards the center of the table while the cue ball went uptable and back down a bit, leaving Sylver a more or less straight shot to his hole. Oddly enough, Busta shot the same type of kick the shot before when the balls were in similar positions, except that the 1 was closer to Sylver's pocket which made the kick easier to execute and also the 6 was off the end rail about a ball or two so a lot more good things could have happened the first time he shot this shot. The second time around (which this diagram is referencing) was more certainly more difficult.

I'll hold off a little on posting the shot I was thinking about as I want to see more people's ideas first.
Twister,

Sounds to me like Busty shot it way firmer than I would have, in that particular spot. Also he hit the 1 ball way too thick...something you have to guard against, if you are going to commit to that shot. I still like the shot, in that situation, and feel I will hit it good, way more often than bad... It's not a good shot for someone (like RBL) who does not feel comfortable in his kicking game.
 
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NH Steve

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I tend to like this kind of kick, as a rule, but I would much rather have the ball I am kicking at within the first diamond from the corner. I think out here, with the 1-ball more than a diamond off the rail I probably would have shot Rod's shot -- three rails toward my side pocket, and top right on the cue ball, just like Rod diagrammed.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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twister said:
I want to see what everyone else would have done.


Since you're in such a tough spot, and might sell out the game (as Bustamante did) by trying to execute a safety here...it just might be worth giving up a ball, to put Sylver in the tough-safety-executing-situation instead....and if I did choose to take this scratch, resulting in the wei layout that I've displayed, what would my opponent do? - he can't bank the 10 cross-corner because the cueball goes into the one, and he can't cross over the 10 because he might accidentally hit the one with it - so maybe he tries to fire the 6ball straight ahead, or follow the 10ball straight ahead - but from 8 feet away frozen on the rail, he could easily hit it bad, and sell out to me....not saying I would do this for sure, but I would definitely consider it...Papie, Steve, etc. - whadda you guys think of this option? >>>


- Ghost



[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ANUk3FAWk4JATT1PNMh1kNMh2kbRt@[/CUETABLE]
 
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blackeee

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Since you're in such a tough spot, and might sell out the game (as Bustamante did) by trying to execute a safety here...it just might be worth giving up a ball, to put Sylver in the tough-safety-executing-situation instead....and if I did choose to take this scratch, resulting in the wei layout that I've displayed, what would my opponent do? - he can't bank the 10 cross-corner because the cueball goes into the one, and he can't cross over the 10 because he might accidentally hit the one with it - so maybe he tries to fire the 6ball straight ahead, or follow the 10ball straight ahead - but from 8 feet away frozen on the rail, he could easily hit it bad, and sell out to me....not saying I would do this for sure, but I would definitely consider it...Papie, Steve, etc. - whadda you guys think of this option? >>>


- Ghost

I like it better than the kick.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AMGk3FAWk4JATT1PNMh1kNMh2kbRt@[/CUETABLE]

I like it.
 

twister

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Well, Ghost called out the shot I like. Busta already needs 2, so 1 more isn't that big of a difference. I wouldn't ever want to go from needing 1 to needing 2 with this kind of shot, but in this case, Busta is able to have all 3 balls downtable with Sylver in a really tough spot. Sylver won't be able to win on the next shot, but he could sure lose. Interested to hear what you all think of this shot.
 

senor

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twister said:
Well, Ghost called out the shot I like. Busta already needs 2, so 1 more isn't that big of a difference. I wouldn't ever want to go from needing 1 to needing 2 with this kind of shot, but in this case, Busta is able to have all 3 balls downtable with Sylver in a really tough spot. Sylver won't be able to win on the next shot, but he could sure lose. Interested to hear what you all think of this shot.
Personally, I'm not in favor of going in reverse here. But I ain't gonna knock it if I see someone do it. The fewer the balls on the table the more subjective the situation gets. I think the only wrong thing to do here is to sell out the game. If someone feels rolling out is the most effective way to do that, I can't offer any further input.

What I can say as a matter of fact is that the difference between needing two balls and three balls in this situation in exactly one ball :) and sometimes one ball can make all the difference in the world and can be the hardest ball to get.
 
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timdog24

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Since you're in such a tough spot, and might sell out the game (as Bustamante did) by trying to execute a safety here...it just might be worth giving up a ball, to put Sylver in the tough-safety-executing-situation instead....and if I did choose to take this scratch, resulting in the wei layout that I've displayed, what would my opponent do? - he can't bank the 10 cross-corner because the cueball goes into the one, and he can't cross over the 10 because he might accidentally hit the one with it - so maybe he tries to fire the 6ball straight ahead, or follow the 10ball straight ahead - but from 8 feet away frozen on the rail, he could easily hit it bad, and sell out to me....not saying I would do this for sure, but I would definitely consider it...Papie, Steve, etc. - whadda you guys think of this option? >>>


- Ghost


Definitely like this option over the 2-rail kick. Most top players, like Bustamante, would never take the intentional scratch with 2 balls on the table. But I certainly would. I don't like the 2 rail kick being frozen on the back rail at all, with the one where it is and with the match on the line no less. As you can see, a guy who kicks as good as anyone in the world not named Efren totally sold out from here.
 
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