Filler/ Chohan May 12-13th

[beatle]

jhg

 

[NH Steve]

So for Tony to win he had to slow him down. Could he have broke the balls by going cushion first and only releasing 1 or 2 balls? Would that have frazzled Filler maybe never seeing that break even tho it is not all that aggressive? Would it have led to more up table games?

It would have been interesting lol. The thing is, Tony typically breaks about as well as it is possible to break in One Pocket with the standard break, so I would be hard pressed to suggest he do otherwise.

 

[vapros]

I recall, not so long ago, watching Eklent Kaci run out a race to 10 in 10 ball (or was it 9 ball?) against Alex Pagulayan. Alex never got to the table. It was fascinating to see. Would I like to watch it again? No, but thanks for asking. I've had it with the rotation games - one pocket was invented as an alternative, and it caught fire. Now, after watching Filler and Chohan, our members are offering expert analyses of the action, and why TRex lost the match. Looking around, it's more and more apparent that more and more players are now able to make nearly every shot and learning one-pocket as they go. Man, that's really great . . . . .
I guess.

 

[jtompilot]

Jim, when you take a players pool IQ into consideration coupled with their ball striking skill then you have a better method of evaluating a player.

Dr. Bill

I usually don’t have that luxury Bill, I’m only in town for a day or two. When I go out of town I’m mostly playing better players because the ones I’m supposed to play are scared to play for more than 5 or 10 a game and they quickly quit.

 

[Tobermory]

well, you are pretty scary...what do you expect?

I usually don’t have that luxury Bill, I’m only in town for a day or two. When I go out of town I’m mostly playing better players because the ones I’m supposed to play are scared to play for more than 5 or 10 a game and they quickly quit.

 

[beatle]

oijhg

 

[jtompilot]

if you want to walk in a room and shoot your full speed and get a game right away. yes you will always have to play someone better and usually lose or settle for no action. if you plan to come back, play for 10 bucks with the weak player and make sure he beats you for one game. next time, you have set a baseline for your speed and can gamble higher with players you can beat or get a spot and win.
its called hustling pool.

I have a good job, I don’t need to hustle. I almost always at least try 100%. I have so many stories playing good players or pros. I only have a few good stories playing chumps. I picked my poison a long time ago Just ask Jerry and Ghost, I keep coming back for a whooping.

 

[beatle]

hgfd

 

[sorackem]

Tony more often than Josh tried to lay down a safety or trap that left some kind of bank shot that Filler went for and seemed to always mak

Your post, according to what I saw, is rather astute. Also, your opinion seemed to describe this (match) as something of an anomaly. The stats you post make that rather obvious, but I mean in that there were frequent opportunities, after some shots that were legitimate strategies, where a kick play or playing from the pack would yield opportunities that were not immediately obvious.

I've seldom seen one pocket games that didn't result in more up-table play if the end game lasted longer than a two or three innings.

Remember that post that Steve put up with Josh playing a two ball combo bank into a two ball combination for a point - and Tony shaking his head?
That, to me, said that Tony had not yet given Josh the respect that it would require for him to adjust his strategy. And this was mid-way(?) through the last day.

 

[Tobermory]

I don't know if anyone wants to do this, but this conversation has really got me wondering exactly what happened in this match. Since it went so fast, with games raining over each other, in hindsight they begin to bleed together and it's hard to break it down accurately. My idea is that we could crowdsource the task of watching each game and writing up a little summary with some key factors identified. I'm going to start another thread for this purpose, and will invite any of you who want to participate to choose a game or more to watch and then briefly describe the action and input the factors. Here's the form I've come up with. I'm wide open to suggestions on additional factors, so please make suggestions and we can quickly settle on the final form. Look for the other thread if interested.

 

[sorackem]

watch and then briefly describe the action and input the factors.

Yes, I might be compelled to watch a couple.
Resulting prognosis offering at minimum: game score, ball score, whether shot was defensive/offensive/two-in-one/strategic (moving balls rather than purely defensive), and details of the response. Was this a game-changer moment or significant in other ways?

You have to love Roy's Basement - not only fabulous video coverage, but the commentary was great, the attentiveness to game score was great - it was truly fabulous.

 

[sorackem]

Thank you to Roy's Basement

Should be a close match. If Tony is a little rusty, Filler has a chance to win.

Stated - Monday 5/11 at 3:37 PM

Spot on

 

[Eengat]

the more experienced one pocket player can choose to neutralize the game. not just defense, but manage the balls and manouver them into a more neutral position so that it becomes a field-position approach instead of going for your hole
what comes to mind there is Chris Gentile. the first game against Pagulayan in the US Open 2011 i believe
This is very much a strenght of his, Gentile clearly chooses to make it a no-pocketing-game, breaking down Pags rythm
less so of Chohan but it could have been an arena of choice for Chohan.
someone else here wrote about an unwillingness to embrace the grind...

I can't wait to see how Filler will handle a couple of 40-minute racks

 

[Jeff sparks]

Filler didn’t look short on anything... Course the only way his true metal in the game will be tested, is when he plays a total package player... Pags being the # 1 on a short list... Dennis being the other... Both of these guys play the entire game well, and use mind numbing pace as their ally... It’s yet to be seen how Filler will react to not getting a shot at his pocket in an hour! That’s an exaggeration, of course, but it’s something we have no answer to as yet because it wasn’t employed by Tony, he plays wide open and fast...

I don’t care who you are or how battle hardened you’ve become, when push comes to shove, it’s all about heart and who breaks down whom to get the win... Pace is a part of that breakdown procedure, pushing balls up table, hiding the cb under a ball or frozen in the stack or on a rail, and all that walking around the table, getting down, getting up, getting down, getting up, is a dance performed by the Fred Astaire masters of one pocket, and it will indeed have the desired effect on the opposition... After watching this dance for hours on end, getting up cold and firing that ball in from off the joint the length of the table ain’t gonna be as easy, that’s for sure...

I believe Filler is special, from watching the second days action, he looked supremely confident... He looked like he knew he was going to win... And in contrast, Tony looked like he knew it also...

It will be very interesting to see how Filler will do against some of the more seasoned & deliberate players, and if he will even give them action without a spot... Personally, I don’t believe he will play either of the top two, but he might play Bergman or Hall, maybe Roberts..

 

[wincardona]

I usually don’t have that luxury Bill, I’m only in town for a day or two. When I go out of town I’m mostly playing better players because the ones I’m supposed to play are scared to play for more than 5 or 10 a game and they quickly
A player that plays multiple games particularly straight pool usually has a higher pool IQ a d can make a smoother transition into playing thinking game like one pocket. Rotation games like 9ball, 10ball, and even 15 ball rotation basically teaches you angles and how to play position but it is not as cerebral as straight pool which forces you to think

I have a good job, I don’t need to hustle. I almost always at least try 100%. I have so many stories playing good players or pros. I only have a few good stories playing chumps. I picked my poison a long time ago Just ask Jerry and Ghost, I keep coming back for a whooping.

There's a lot to be said for players that think like you Jim, to compete against the best, and always challenging yourself to respond is self-gratifying and very fulfilling in many ways. Kinda like the excitement of the journey. Good luck.

Dr. Bill

 

[wincardona]

Filler didn’t look short on anything... Course the only way his true metal in the game will be tested, is when he plays a total package player... Pags being the # 1 on a short list... Dennis being the other... Both of these guys play the entire game well, and use mind numbing pace as their ally... It’s yet to be seen how Filler will react to not getting a shot at his pocket in an hour! That’s an exaggeration, of course, but it’s something we have no answer to as yet because it wasn’t employed by Tony, he plays wide open and fast...

I don’t care who you are or how battle hardened you’ve become, when push comes to shove, it’s all about heart and who breaks down whom to get the win... Pace is a part of that breakdown procedure, pushing balls up table, hiding the cb under a ball or frozen in the stack or on a rail, and all that walking around the table, getting down, getting up, getting down, getting up, is a dance performed by the Fred Astaire masters of one pocket, and it will indeed have the desired effect on the opposition... After watching this dance for hours on end, getting up cold and firing that ball in from off the joint the length of the table ain’t gonna be as easy, that’s for sure...

I believe Filler is special, from watching the second days action, he looked supremely confident... He looked like he knew he was going to win... And in contrast, Tony looked like he knew it also...

It will be very interesting to see how Filler will do against some of the more seasoned & deliberate players, and if he will even give them action without a spot... Personally, I don’t believe he will play either of the top two, but he might play Bergman or Hall, maybe Roberts..

Excellent post, Jeff, you're spot on describing the breaking down process and how it affects players, I'm in total agreement with you on all of what you have posted. Filler playing a player like Orcollo will be the ultimate test which I feel he's not ready for yet, maybe never because he's such a fast-paced player that lives and survives on his aggressiveness. I believe Filler has the skill and abilities to beat any player in the world from what I saw, however, playing a lengthy match against a player the likes of Orcullo or Pagulayan at this time wouldn't bode well for a 22-year-old champion he would be in waters that were deeper than anything he's ever experienced. I'm not taking anything away from his brilliance as a player just talking from a managers perspective..if you know what I mean.

Dr. Bill

 

[NH Steve]

the more experienced one pocket player can choose to neutralize the game. not just defense, but manage the balls and manouver them into a more neutral position so that it becomes a field-position approach instead of going for your hole
what comes to mind there is Chris Gentile. the first game against Pagulayan in the US Open 2011 i believe
This is very much a strenght of his, Gentile clearly chooses to make it a no-pocketing-game, breaking down Pags rythm
less so of Chohan but it could have been an arena of choice for Chohan.
someone else here wrote about an unwillingness to embrace the grind...

I can't wait to see how Filler will handle a couple of 40-minute racks

Thanks for the commentary Alex -- great job!! Your English is also so good there is no issue there -- nice and easy to understand you and no lack of vocabulary. I'm impressed considering it is a second (or third lol) language!!

 

[wincardona]

the more experienced one pocket player can choose to neutralize the game. not just defense, but manage the balls and manouver them into a more neutral position so that it becomes a field-position approach instead of going for your hole
what comes to mind there is Chris Gentile. the first game against Pagulayan in the US Open 2011 i believe
This is very much a strenght of his, Gentile clearly chooses to make it a no-pocketing-game, breaking down Pags rythm
less so of Chohan but it could have been an arena of choice for Chohan.
someone else here wrote about an unwillingness to embrace the grind...

I can't wait to see how Filler will handle a couple of 40-minute racks

Very insightful post as Steve alluded to, we are all in agreement that the real test for Filler hasn't arrived yet and yes it will be very interesting how this 22-year-old champion will respond.

Dr. Bill

 

[stedyfred]

On the first day of the match in one of the first 3 games Tony had a 4 ball lead AND was under the balls. He and the other top one pocket players of today do not play the score and take balls out of play. It probably would not have made any difference in the outcome of the match but that was his chance to let Filler know that, at times, he may vary his style of play.

 

[gulfportdoc]

The birdies at Buffalo’s say, “The pro’s who moves to New Orleans will have their game go down hill”. It happened to Danny Smith, Ronnie Wiseman, Ritchie R, and others. For some reason New Orleans is bad news for them. I hope that doesn’t happen to Tony. I plan on having regular sessions with him.

That's interesting, and I never thought about that. Why do you suppose that is? My guess is that any pro who stays and plays in any one locale for long would die on the vine. He's going to have to give weight to everyone, and therefore will get accustomed to playing inferior players. Consequently when he plays someone who has a more complete game, he won't be used to that type of play.

As far as N.O. in specific, there's no shortage of action and guys who will bet it up. Perhaps the peculiar culture in N.O. simply drags a good player down?...