i need advice here

Tobermory

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Mar 12, 2017
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I completely agree with Tom that there is no profitable aggressive shot in this position. I love it when my opponent, at any skill level, takes a flyer at a shot here (except for in 1 ball one pocket). If the table rolls reliably straight, I'm probably going to slow roll onto the right side of the object ball planning to leave both balls close to the rail. Easy enough to execute, and what does (s)he have to work with: nothing. If the table is not reliable, I'll just aim right at the middle of the object ball and concentrate on my speed so that I just barely get there for a legal shot.
 

vapros

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May 24, 2004
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Looking at this shot again, I have to change my mind. It's too extreme for me to try, and I will look for a safe instead. Similar shots with a less-acute angle, are very playable, but even so - not shooting out of the pocket. That makes it too tough.
 

12squared

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Mar 14, 2005
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Larry,

I took this shot to the table. I thought there was a wider angle on the object ball than once I set it up, which changes things. And, with the QB being so close to the rail just above the corner pocket I tried to stay away from using right hand spin. So here were my shot attempts, some suggested in this thread and a couple I thought were worth a look (I assumed the object ball was not frozen):

1) when I first looked at the layout I thought you could easily go straight into the OB to hit the side rail before the side pocket and end up in the middle of the opposite end rail with the QB also in the middle somewhere on the opposite end of the table, but not as easy as first thought. I left a cut, but if you know the speed of the table it maybe a viable option (if the OB was at the 1st diamond this would be a good shot and much easier);

2) this was my first suggestion for an easy safety and it came out well even though I hit it a hair fuller than intended. Dr. Bill took it a step further to leave the QB and OB on opposit rails using outside spin, but because of where the QB is located I stayed away from that type spin. His reults were better, but harder to acheive;

3) I wanted to try to hit my 2nd shot suggestion, which was a 2 railer hit at 4 railer speed. I did make the 2 railer 3 times out of 7 when I was testing it, but I'm glad I hit this one too full to show the speed I was referring to. They still may have a 3 railer for the win so not the best option;

4) because I assumed the OB wasn't frozen to the rail, I thought a very soft roll on the ball was a safe bet. And it is, unless you get careless and hit the left side, which left a 2 railer; :(

5) I tried the same roll up again but errored on the right side compensating for my suckiness. This left options for safety return or maybe a zig zag 2 railer;

6) the one rail kick off the long rail turned out great because I hit the top of the ball, but I think coming in from that side has a better chance of hitting the left side and leaving some kind of 1 or 2 rail bank. But as shown, if you hit it like this it's pretty affective.

Anyway, just screwing around where you can see 1st try of all my options. (I hope I had it set up correctly).

Dave

 

Cory in dc

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In bank pool, you would shoot it two rails with speed and let your cue ball end up on the foot rail. But in one pocket this is one of those shots where the juice is not worth the squeeze, and you just move it to his side rail with the cue ball even or even higher to prevent the kick bank. This will leave him just thinning the ball and sending the cue ball down table near your side rail. In humid areas, this will allow you to four rail the ball to your pocket, but in most places, you just have to win the first shot safety battle.
Yeah, I see others have posted this and I agree. If the high karate looks unwise, as it does here (despite Catkins's strong attempt), then this is the safest. I call this a "W" safety because the CB and OB trace out sort of a W shape. The W is the lamest of all safes in my mind (except maybe for rolling right on top of the ball), but that's because it's simple. So I go to it after I rule out the other options.
 

lll

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Mar 19, 2007
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Larry,

I took this shot to the table. I thought there was a wider angle on the object ball than once I set it up, which changes things. And, with the QB being so close to the rail just above the corner pocket I tried to stay away from using right hand spin. So here were my shot attempts, some suggested in this thread and a couple I thought were worth a look (I assumed the object ball was not frozen):

1) when I first looked at the layout I thought you could easily go straight into the OB to hit the side rail before the side pocket and end up in the middle of the opposite end rail with the QB also in the middle somewhere on the opposite end of the table, but not as easy as first thought. I left a cut, but if you know the speed of the table it maybe a viable option (if the OB was at the 1st diamond this would be a good shot and much easier);

2) this was my first suggestion for an easy safety and it came out well even though I hit it a hair fuller than intended. Dr. Bill took it a step further to leave the QB and OB on opposit rails using outside spin, but because of where the QB is located I stayed away from that type spin. His reults were better, but harder to acheive;

3) I wanted to try to hit my 2nd shot suggestion, which was a 2 railer hit at 4 railer speed. I did make the 2 railer 3 times out of 7 when I was testing it, but I'm glad I hit this one too full to show the speed I was referring to. They still may have a 3 railer for the win so not the best option;

4) because I assumed the OB wasn't frozen to the rail, I thought a very soft roll on the ball was a safe bet. And it is, unless you get careless and hit the left side, which left a 2 railer; :(

5) I tried the same roll up again but errored on the right side compensating for my suckiness. This left options for safety return or maybe a zig zag 2 railer;

6) the one rail kick off the long rail turned out great because I hit the top of the ball, but I think coming in from that side has a better chance of hitting the left side and leaving some kind of 1 or 2 rail bank. But as shown, if you hit it like this it's pretty affective.

Anyway, just screwing around where you can see 1st try of all my options. (I hope I had it set up correctly).

Dave

thanks to everyone for their suggestions
you opened my eyes to a few options
i didnt like 2 railng the ball because the cue ball was loose
i really didnt think of the 1 railer but probably would not have shot it do to a low percentage to make for me and no faith in what the cue ball would
do ....also my opponent hits the up and back 2 railer very well so i didnt want to leave a ball in the open
nor did i think about kicking at it off the long rail
joe (brlongarm ) first suggestedshot #2 above was what i shot trying to leave the cue ball below (foot side) of the object ball
i never even considered using spin from that distance and from where the cue ball was as suggested bt dr bill
i did not hit it as well as dave as i left him a thin cut up the table which he made.... :mad:
dave thanks alot for shooting and posting the shot selections...👍
 

lll

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Larry, I have a question about the Xmas stocking, are you late in taking it down or just very early in putting it up?

As for the shot I would just slow role the cb up onto the object ball and wait for a better shot.

As far as advise, it depends what % you could make the 2 rail or 1 rail bank and what control you would have over the cb so as not to leave an easy cross side bank if you miss. If its a low % then you must duck. Keith
keith
the christmas stocking was given to me by someone i work with last year
the ribbon off the side of the stocking is personalized with my last name in scrabble type blocks
i wasnt expecting to get a gift from her and it brought a smile to me that she would take the effort to make it.
it was christmas time and although i dont celebrate christmas (i am raised in the jewish religion)
i do enjoy the christmas atmosphere...... :)
so i put it up on the fireplace in the spirit of the time
i like the way it looks and since i am a bachelor and can do whatever i want.:eek:
i have left it up.....☃
 

lll

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Mar 19, 2007
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Larry, you need to try to control the OB by SOFTLY cutting it to the left with two tips of right English. You suggested bringing the cue ball back down to the foot rail which would be wrong because you are not controlling the OB using a hard speed. By controlling the cue ball to stay at the top end of the table you are limiting the ability of your opponent by leaving awkward angles for possible return banks. The right English will aid you in creating awkward angles for return banks as well.

Advanced method of executing this shot would be to use a low right ball with two tips of low right English. This technique will allow you to shoot this shot with a slightly harder speed, the low English will slow the cue ball up as it travels down the table but the English will stay on the cue ball to give you the desired result needed. This method of playing the shot takes a little practice to familiarize yourself with the masse that takes place with shots of this type.

Dr. Bill
i will practice hitting it with spin bill
if i could get the result like bob showed that would be ideal
 

lll

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Mar 19, 2007
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Larry, Attempting to get aggressive here and playing to pocket the ball for the win requires turning the cue ball loose.
You had better know what you are doing before playing either the cut straight back or the two rail bank.
I'm betting against anyone here, game for game and shooting from this position while taking either of those shots.

Do you remember the four safety positions we talked about when dealing with one ball?
Which of the four options do you think is easiest to preform in this situation? I would suggest
to you that there are only two reasonable choices to consider.

I suggest you see for yourself which of these two options work best for you. You will quickly determine which options
are unreasonable and which are not. I have plenty of confidence that you will find the right solution rather quickly
without any additional help from us.

Tom
I did remember the safety positions we talked about Tom and that’s why I picked the shot I chose.
i do pay attention when you try to teach me......:)(y)
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Jul 8, 2017
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Larry,
I was wondering what year range is your GC in, and what cushions do you have on it. It appears your pockets are fairly tight. Very nice play room!
Nice thread, I lack the knowledge to instruct on this scenario, the end game would probably be my weakest part of OP, and how to deal with similar scenarios such as these.
If you have some more scenarios we would all appreciate you threading them, I am sure!
Oh, what is the gadget that is upright in the chair, it looks pool related, if you do not mind. Whitey
 

lll

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Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,931
Larry,
I was wondering what year range is your GC in, and what cushions do you have on it. It appears your pockets are fairly tight. Very nice play room!
Nice thread, I lack the knowledge to instruct on this scenario, the end game would probably be my weakest part of OP, and how to deal with similar scenarios such as these.
If you have some more scenarios we would all appreciate you threading them, I am sure!
Oh, what is the gadget that is upright in the chair, it looks pool related, if you do not mind. Whitey
Whitey
my table is a gold crown 1 or 2
i recently had work done to it
i had the rails extended with new super speed rubber and the corner pockets made to 4 1/4 inch with no extra shims
thats the idea behind extended rails
i also had leg levelers installed at the same time
the old legs needed chips of wood to level
these can be leveled by turning the base
as for the upright contraption on the chair
thats a tripod to mount my iPhone so I can have a virtual lesson or take videos
i usually remove it when I play on sundays but I got lazy
it doesn’t get in the way
my problem is I still haven’t figured out how to upload the videos
i still owe ratamon a video copy of a dvd but can’t figure out how to get him access to it
terry I haven’t forgotten you if you read this
 

androd

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Dec 10, 2008
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I can't demonstrate but using a high CB and a full hit you can stall the CB and kiss the OB towards your pocket.
 
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