John vs. Barry 4 wwyd?

Kybanks

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Kyb, are you suggesting the same shot I outlined back in post #15? If so, I agree with you...;)

Doc: "I'd likely thin the 10 and roll off the rail to fall behind it. You're going to get something better no matter what he shoots from there."
Yes sir, sorry Doc I missed it!
 

Kybanks

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kyb and doc, your shot gets you to the next inning but here is my question.

If you could take ball in hand now and place the CB anywhere you want in the kitchen, where would you put it to get out of this trap? I feel where it is now you can clear those balls now. I dont see anywhere else up table that would make it easier for me. just my 2 cents..
Ghost answered it for me, I would do the exact same thing.
 

Kybanks

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If playing down table to move balls away from the pocket, it seems the shooter could only expect to move the three closest to the pocket.

Too far to the right on that 12 and it would miss the 15 - (or catch it to combo the 4. Or pull off it to catch the 3).

Too far to the left on the 12 and CB is likely to bounce too far off the rail and 12 ball isn't going to move too far after kicking the 4.

The only way I'd try to move those is power the CB down to hit a hair left of center on the 12 with a draw-release just before contact on the 12 so CB would drift down to sit at bottom rail almost in the jaws. But this doesn't assure moving a couple of those balls very far.

I don't see how to get underneath that 4 to kick them out. Certainly not using the 2 ball.

Any of these scenarios equate to too much risk.
I still like leaving the CB on/behind the 10 and force opponent to make something else happen.
I set this up, and frammed the 12 left of center and sold out the game. The 12 ball ended up in the jaws of the pocket with 4 open shots to follow.
 

cincy_kid

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I most definitely do Chris...I would place the cueball at the top of the kitchen, a few inches right of center, and then it's 'bombs away', as I drill my cueball into the short rail behind the 4.
I feel like when I kick, I have less control of then CB than when I can shoot straight into a ball.
 

cincy_kid

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If I set it up and saw that the 12 ball may hang around like kyb mentioned, the only other thing I see is rolling at the 2 ball, CB end up on the foot rail, but then he is just going to play off the 2 and put you back up table, so I think im blasting here, if it hangs and he runs 5, rack em! :)
 

El Chapo

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The key to tour shot selection here, at least as I see it, is to realize those balls near his hole are not even a threat to you. In fact they lay real nice as far as I am concerned. So I certainly would not muck with any of them. I just like touching the 10 over to my side rail and leaving him on the rail there.
 

beatle

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if its not viable to cut in the 2 and hit behind the 4 ball then if you shoot the 2 ball i would hit the right side of it hard and take the cueball to the side rail then bottom and try to kick out the 4 or the two balls near it with the 2 ball.
i chose not to consider that shot as if you miss the 4, to easy to leave him a shot you wont like next.
 

OldSchool

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The key to tour shot selection here, at least as I see it, is to realize those balls near his hole are not even a threat to you. In fact they lay real nice as far as I am concerned. So I certainly would not muck with any of them. I just like touching the 10 over to my side rail and leaving him on the rail there.
Great one pocket play consists of great shooting and great moving.

You're a shooter, and all of your posts wrongly say the same thing over and over again: shooting is everything, and moving is way overrated.

Now this post of yours show why you say that. It's because you don't understand correct moving.

You say those balls by your opponents pocket are not a threat to you. That's obviously wrong thinking. A mover would know that.

You say you're going to shoot the 10ball across to your side and leave the cueball where it is now. Wrong again. A good mover would know better than to do that. Because when you do that, an opponent who knows how to move will shoot and thin the 2ball or the 3ball into the 15 and 4balls, moving balls to the jaws of his pocket, and bring the cueball back two rails to the area where it started from, and you will then be in big trouble.

Old School
 

One Pocket Ghost

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So then, John's chosen shot was to bank the 2 straight back and to the left..with the intention of leaving the 2ball covering the 10, so that Barry wouldn't have a straight back bank on the 2 or the 10 - and of course, John also wanted to leave the cueball on the foot rail...he hit his shot well and accomplished what he meant to.....it came out like this ----->
 

catkins

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15 off the 12 carom into the 4 looks very good if you can miss the 3 on the way out
 

baby huey

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I see two more shots. One shot is to kick in the 10 ball by the cueball towards your hole and leave the cue ball right there and lastly just make the ten ball and leave the cueball right where it is.
 

El Chapo

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Great one pocket play consists of great shooting and great moving.

You're a shooter, and all of your posts wrongly say the same thing over and over again: shooting is everything, and moving is way overrated.

Now this post of yours show why you say that. It's because you don't understand correct moving.

You say those balls by your opponents pocket are not a threat to you. That's obviously wrong thinking. A mover would know that.

You say you're going to shoot the 10ball across to your side and leave the cueball where it is now. Wrong again. A good mover would know better than to do that. Because when you do that, an opponent who knows how to move will shoot and thin the 2ball or the 3ball into the 15 and 4balls, moving balls to the jaws of his pocket, and bring the cueball back two rails to the area where it started from, and you will then be in big trouble.

Old School
I saw that reply shot. I just dont think it is a particularly powerful position because i could leave him anywhere on the other side of the table and he would be doubled up.

I think if two good players are playing from this position, the guy to pocket a ball next will be about 50-50, meaning the balls look like they favor one player, but it is highly deceptive.

The reason i say all that other stuff is because it is true. Who wins one pocket tournaments?

Listen, I am more than happy to be wrong, but why isnt there a chicago style mover who wins all the one pocket tournaments with his knowledge and moving??

I think golf is a good comparison. Guys who putt win everything. Putting good, you win. Course knowledge for example, may do a guy good for about the first nine holes. His 20 years of course knowledge could then be overcome though by a good putter who starts understanding the crispness of the greens etc after a few holes. 20 years of knowledge faded almost instantly because he can putt well. So, what was that knowledge really worth?
 

Tobermory

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Looks like an easy three railer on the 9 ball, follow the cue ball one rail and down to the bottom rail.
 

Kybanks

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I would think he thinned the 15 ball and put the cb somewhere around the chalk on the end rail
 
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