John vs. Ray 7 - wwyd?

Ratamon

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I believe I'd softly kick at the deuce off the opponent's side rail, just tickling it. Puts the opponent in a jam...
Doc, this shot isn’t available I’m afraid unless you want to masse around the 13. Am I right Ghost ?
 

gulfportdoc

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Doc, this shot isn’t available I’m afraid unless you want to masse around the 13. Am I right Ghost ?
Looks like there's enough room to me. But if there weren't, I wouldn't shoot it, would I? No need for you to be afraid.
 

wincardona

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I'd have to see it on the table, but I think the half-ball angle off the 7 (with left side) is sitting right to land full on the 2. I do like one of the shots on the 10 better, but if I'm not feeling good about the make percentages, I'll try the safe.
I like banking the 13ball with a touch of left English sending the cue ball 3/4 back up the table. The angle left on the 7-2 for your opponent is very awkward if the 10ball isn't pocketed, plus there will be now three balls by your pocket with two of them practically in the pocket. Big upside with this move with very little gamble. Plus it moves the 13ball from a neutral position to a possible scoring shot or a shot that could strengthen the position greatly.

Dr. Bill
If I would decide to shoot the 10ball combination the decision to shoot it rail first or straight on would be a difficult one for me to make. Shooting it rail first if missed you figure to lose the game not a good spot to put yourself in especially if your upside-only looks to be two or three balls. The other method of playing the 10ball combination, in my opinion, would be to shoot it fairly hard with a draw stroke increasing the make% than take out the 7-2. That brings me to the 13ball bank and the reason I like that option. Now with the 13ball option, you reverse the odds for your opponent if it is missed to where better judgment for him would be to try to clear your pocket if it is even possible. However, if the bank scores the 10ball than you will gather at least three balls, maybe more than clear your opponent's pocket.

Dr. Bill
 

cincy_kid

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I like the 13 bank as well, but were do you leave the CB so that if missed they do not have an easy shot at the 11 with sideboards?
 

ChicagoFats

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If I decided to shoot the 1 directly into the 10 I would decide one of two ways to shoot it.
Track 1: I would shoot this with extreme 6 oclock to drag the cue ball into a stop shot on the 1. My intention would be to hit it where I plan on leaving my self a cross corner bank on the 1. I played Sergio Perez the other day and I think he shoots this shot better than anyone around.
Track 2: Hit a pretty hard stop shot and send the 1 around 2 or 3 rails to my side of the table.

Either of these choices gives me a 5-3 lead and I am most likely clearing out the 7 2 if I don't end up with some type of follow up bank on the 1.

21.jpg
 

ChicagoFats

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I like banking the 13ball with a touch of left English sending the cue ball 3/4 back up the table. The angle left on the 7-2 for your opponent is very awkward if the 10ball isn't pocketed, plus there will be now three balls by your pocket with two of them practically in the pocket. Big upside with this move with very little gamble. Plus it moves the 13ball from a neutral position to a possible scoring shot or a shot that could strengthen the position greatly.

Dr. Bill
I like a lot of things about this shot and probably would end up being my first choice.
Only thing I don't like about this shot is if you put left on it, you leave the straight back bank on the 4 with a huge pocket that enables your opponent to pocket the 4 and if he hits it in off the 2 ball.... he is probably getting the 7 and the 2 with it.
I think if I am playing Ike or someone "by the game" and I attempt your shot, they probably shoot at that 4 if they don't end up with an easy way to clear my hole. If its a tournament they might reconsider the 4 ball bank shot since they only get one chance.
 
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wincardona

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This is a tricky one...

Ray's shot --- he has the top left corner pocket --- ball score is 4-3, both going to 8, John ahead.....

As the pic shows, Ray has an angle whereby if he plays the 9-10 combination, the 9 won't sit there afterwards for a subsequent shot/simple position = it will carom to the right --- by my pocket, the 7 doesn't pass the 2, but the 2 can easily be seen and pocketed from down near the foot rail, under the 7 --- the 7 can not pass the 2 to be banked cross-corner --- also, the 2 is a hair off of being frozen to the foot rail, so the 7-2 combo is makeable, but not simple --- wwyd? >>>


View attachment 431893View attachment 431894
There's another way to play the 9-10 combination that would be better defensively and quite possibly offensively. Play the rail first and play position for the 13ball. Playing position for the 13ball puts your opponent in a .more awkward position to play the 7-2 combination in the event the 10ball isn't scored.

Dr. Bill
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I also like the rail first in making the combo 9-10 for it leaves the possibility of getting the cb somewhat safe against the opposite side rail, if the 10 does not drop, of which it is a pretty big ball.

I also like just shooting into the combo with high cb with slight inside reverse english and let the cb come around for shape on the 9 ball. This is the shot I would most likely do, since Ghost only allows one pick! But it is a close toss up. Whitey
 

ChicagoFats

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There's another way to play the 9-10 combination that would be better defensively and quite possibly offensively. Play the rail first and play position for the 13ball. Playing position for the 13ball puts your opponent in a .more awkward position to play the 7-2 combination in the event the 10ball isn't scored.

Dr. Bill
I thought about shaping up for the 13 too. For some reason I either end up in the side pocket or on a funny angle more often than not.
 

baby huey

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I was watching the movie ARGO the other day and they talked about the BEST WORST OPTION for rescuing the Americans. This wwyd is kinda like that. IMO you have to make the ten ball and move on from there. Don't over think the shot. Just concentrate on making it and shoot what's left if anything at all. Maybe just trade making your ten ball and making his two ball. Survive to the next inning.
 

vapros

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Thanks, Jerry. I am always encouraged when I find a good player thinking this way. I feel sure a lot more players take this approach than are willing to say so - it's so easy on the website -
 

One Pocket Ghost

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I would shoot the nine into the rail and carom the 10 in with a touch of right to play for the nine next.
Yeah Billy, as you posted here ^... and as a coupla other guys were also considering shooting, that's exactly what Ray chose to do...but unfortunately, for Ray that is, he over-cut the 9 ball and it whiffed past the front of the 10 ball, missing it/not touching it....here's how it ended up >>>

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Billy Jackets

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Yes, the shot sucks if you don't make the 10, It looks like he tried to do too much, and did nothing We have all done that.
He entirely missed the 10, which tells me he probably changed his mind on the cue
ball speed at the last second,never got up and rethought it , and threw the whole shot off.
{I used to be a mind reader in the circus}
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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Ghost, what was your choice?
Bill, I think I would have also shot Billy's shot...but unlike Ray, I would have shot it softer, with max. outside english to spin over to the long rail approx. 1-1/2 diamonds up from John's pocket = so-as to have simple shape for the 9 next, and to also be safe in case the 10 hung up/didn't go in.
 

cincy_kid

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If I were going to shoot the combo I would have probably loaded up with a lot of low LHE, make the ball and come off the long rail and hope to get shape on the 13
 

Billy Jackets

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Bill, I think I would have also shot Billy's shot...but unlike Ray, I would have shot it softer, with max. outside english to spin over to the long rail approx. 1-1/2 diamonds up from John's pocket = so-as to have simple shape for the 9 next, and to also be safe in case the 10 hung up/didn't go in.
The shot is only viable if you make it , so you have to cinch it ., for me that means hit it as you said and allow the whole pocket to be in play , if you hit it firm , the pocket just shrunk by a 1/4 inch. Then the shot went from the right shot, to the wrong shot, for me.
 
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