Learning to play Bank pool question

lll

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congrats on your cue hank
it probably is around 20 oz playing weight
i would be curious if you could measure the balance point in inches from the end of the butt
not that it makes a difference but i get into little things like that
fwiw most cues are between 18-19 inches from the butt
( just to be clear 19 inches would make the cue more forward balanced than 18)
wes hunter is a very respected cue maker so you picked a great person to make the modifications for you
am i correct that you replaced the original weight bolt with the new weight bolt to lower the weight of the butt ?
once again
enjoy the cue and great shooting
:)
 

hankh

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lll, Howdy;


Balance point is now 18.75" from base of butt cap. That's a forward shift of 1.625"
and the "feel" is definitely nose heavy and I am more happy with it that way. May
need a golf cart to tote it around ... but it works for me.

I did a post over on AZB in the ask the cue maker section if you want to read
through the whole process but I think I covered most of it in the post above.

hank
 

lll

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lll, Howdy;


Balance point is now 18.75" from base of butt cap. That's a forward shift of 1.625"
and the "feel" is definitely nose heavy and I am more happy with it that way. May
need a golf cart to tote it around ... but it works for me.

I did a post over on AZB in the ask the cue maker section if you want to read
through the whole process but I think I covered most of it in the post above.

hank
i went and read your thread on azb
nice to have a happy ending to a story....:)
enjoy your cue
 

hankh

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lll, Howdy;

yeah, it worked out nice, but it is still heavy. It may be going for another
ride soon. I used it for the 8-ball tourney yesterday and found I truly had to
modify my stroke to control the weight. Some of those soft finesse shots were
a bear to shoot. The cue wanted to skewer them like a ka-bob. Felt like I was
trying to hold it back rather then allowing it to glide through. So, back to my
primary until the next "bright shiny object" catches my eye. :lol

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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On a 7' table a lighter cue can be a benefit, it gives you more feel and your stroke can be let out a little more. But sometimes the cb is heavy then it takes more force to draw the ball. I use a 16 oz. - 17 oz. for 7' Diamonds with regular cb. Strickland can only use about 10% of his stroke on a 7' Diamond with his cue. Whitey
 

lll

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On a 7' table a lighter cue can be a benefit, it gives you more feel and your stroke can be let out a little more. But sometimes the cb is heavy then it takes more force to draw the ball. I use a 16 oz. - 17 oz. for 7' Diamonds with regular cb. Strickland can only use about 10% of his stroke on a 7' Diamond with his cue. Whitey
I wish I had 10% of stricklands stroke....:heh:heh
 

hankh

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Howdy All;

Whitey, most of my shooting life has been on 7' tables and I've got the short
stroke poke for about 80% of my shots. Feels really good to be able to let out
a full power stroke every once in awhile. The new to me cue (aka Baby Huey),
is going to be, if I decied to keep it, for 9' tables. The momentum that 20+ oz's
creates is an entirely different critter to deal with then a 18.5 to 19 oz. cue. As
I mentioned earlier the balance point is 18.75" from base of Butt cap That's only
0.75" forward then when Baby Huey was at full weight. while the balance point
on my regular shooter is at 17". I'd almost bet that the balance point on the
majority of you cues is within 0.75" from the furthest to the closest.

Ahhh, what the hell it's just a hunk of wood some plastic of some sort, a small
bit or two of metal and some fancy-schmancy gee-gaws on it ... :lol

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Howdy All;

Whitey, most of my shooting life has been on 7' tables and I've got the short
stroke poke for about 80% of my shots. Feels really good to be able to let out
a full power stroke every once in awhile. The new to me cue (aka Baby Huey),
is going to be, if I decied to keep it, for 9' tables. The momentum that 20+ oz's
creates is an entirely different critter to deal with then a 18.5 to 19 oz. cue. As
I mentioned earlier the balance point is 18.75" from base of Butt cap That's only
0.75" forward then when Baby Huey was at full weight. while the balance point
on my regular shooter is at 17". I'd almost bet that the balance point on the
majority of you cues is within 0.75" from the furthest to the closest.

Ahhh, what the hell it's just a hunk of wood some plastic of some sort, a small
bit or two of metal and some fancy-schmancy gee-gaws on it ... :lol

hank
A good rule of thum for cues is 57" is a 17" balance point, such as our past Straight Pool Master's played with. 57-1/2" cue would be 17-1/2", and 58" is 18". Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Thanks for that. My regular shooter is an early J sideways Way 57-1/2".
the new one is 58" so reckon the Balance point is about 3/4" more
forward then the "rule of thumb". Still feels like a battering ram ... :rolleyes:
Thanks again.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Whitey, Howdy;

Thanks for that. My regular shooter is an early J sideways Way 57-1/2".
the new one is 58" so reckon the Balance point is about 3/4" more
forward then the "rule of thumb". Still feels like a battering ram ... :rolleyes:
Thanks again.

hank
Have an aluminum joint pin put in, and if needed take out some of the weight in the back! There is a 3/8 x 10 aluminum pin available or a pin can be made.

The rule of thumb is my own and derived from my Herman Rambo cue that is 57-1/2" w/balance point set at 17-1/2". This I think is a good standard to go by since he made many of the cues for the great bygone players.

But some say a little forward balance point is good when a guy gets older, I really do not know about this theory. Best to go with what feels good to you!

A lot of cues these days are 58" w/19" balance point, I like the feel of an 18" balance in this length cue. Whitey
 
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hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

The "Baby Huey" cue would need to be torn apart and rebuilt. The threads for
any weight bolt are almost 3-1/2" down inside the butt. The whole butt end
is fatter then most built now days and the naked butt, no bumper or weight
bolt, tipped the scale at a hefty 16.83 oz. also, the weight bolt is what the
bumper screws into. Someone would have to figure out how to remove another
whole ounce and a half from the butt to bring this down to something more
playable for me. Shafts were 3.7 & 3.9 oz. each before being turned from
a chunky 14 mm (each), to a trim 12.75 mm each. Forgot to have them weight
checked but they most likely still tip a scale at or very close to 3 oz. each.

We've hijacked my thread about Learning Banks but it's a good detour.

Always enjoy the input from others.

hank
 

hankh

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Whitey & lll, Howdy;

Just a quick note to let you know I haven't given up. Still doing the practice
stuff, and trying to get the basic shots down. The Brumback video helped with
cue tip placement as to where and his "just a touch of inside (or outside)" is
being refined by my (such that it is), mind. Realized I needed to work on my
Stop Shot and have been doing them as often as I can. Getting ready to buy
his other video and start checking out some tactics.

Thanks for all the help, thoughts & suggestions. Any and all still accepted.
Have a Safe (especially you Larry), weekend.

hank
 

hankh

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Howdy All;

Well, interesting thing today, the Canteen Mgr. at the VFW finally decided to
actually clean the tables and the ball sets as well :eek:. He keeps the brushes
in his office so we can't get to them and generally only cleans the ball sets
during the Monthly meeting, last Sat. of the month.

Today I showed up about 10 minutes earlier then I usually do and who's playing
on the primary table getting used to the new "feel" of how it's playing all clean
and with clean balls. :rolleyes: So, I set up, and ask him if he'd like to shoot
a game. Answer was nope, got stuff to do. So I go about my normal routine.
First thing is some lagging for stroke check and speed. Then I go for some of the
Corner 5 shots. Well, been able to shoot from one corner into the center diamond
far other side rail, top rail then near side and plop, inna pocket she goes.
Today, :eek: not so much, came out and hit the near diamond to the pocket on
the foot rail. LONG! A whole diamond LONG... :confused: , then it clicked the
cleaning (that been over due for about 2 years for the tables), and that
combined with the clean balls, stuff is sliding and not going where it has.
Started re-calculating all my stuff such as it is. Worked out well, when we did
meet during the tourney I was able to move him to the Losers bracket.
I was able to re-calculate for doin some of the Banks but not as many went
inna hole as I wanted, never does anyway so I was still able to have a smile.
Couldn't have done it without y'all's help and suggestions which you can keep
on posting if ya feel like it. Always gratefully accepted.

Thank you all.

hank
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hi Hank,
My student that has all the crazy problems and bad habits contacted me and wanted to start lessons again, once a week. We mainly play bar 8ft. 8-ball in this town. 1st. lesson was working mainly on his break, it was very week, poor technique, but can hit head ball solid. He was concerned about breaking and opening up the rack and not making a ball. And against better players he did not want to open up the rack, so I showed him a 3rd. ball break, and he liked it. He got 2nd. in the tournament that night. 2nd. lesson was breaking plus picking which balls to take, and some shot making in which he has a hard time coming down on the shot correctly and he subconsciously puts unwanted english on the cb that somehow compensates for his poor aiming.

I have to watch his shot from the front, in line of sight, to see him not stroking straight through. He lines up wrong then puts inside reverse and that pushes the cb over to properly contact the ob. It's bazaar. I thought I had that corrected a few years ago, but without lessons here is back to the bazaar again.

But, he also stated he wanted to work on 9-ball. So I got some 3 x 5 index cards that has dots and not lines, and on each card I drew up a shot that is necessary to know and common in 9-ball, and where to hit the cb for shape on the next ball. 20 shots in all, with the final 4 cards playing 3 ball runs.
I want him to get some of those sticky little donuts so he can precisely position and re-position the balls for each shot that he is working on, for any slight variance can change the shot. He has a small table at home, give him two weeks and then another lesson, and see how he does.

I knocked some banks around the other day, I forget how fun banks are, surprised myself for I was half decent. I need to hit some more once in awhile. Good luck in your quest for excellence, you are coming along great! I believe you are an inspiration to many viewing your thread! Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

:eek: , don't recollect ever being called an "inspiration" before :eek: .

I've watched several of the other shooters at our tourneys shoot
head-on to me and it may be one of those optical illusions because
they look like they are aiming (as I see it), to the Left. What I see
when they shoot away from me is dead-on for what they are attempting
judging from the results of the shot and their reaction. I could be wrong,
but that's what I see.
Is your student also a Lefty? Same dominate eye as you? Does he get as
far 'down' on the shot as you or lower/higher? Just tossing out some ideas
about why/how it may appear different.
As always all suggestions welcome.

Stay dry, stay safe.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Whitey, Howdy;

:eek: , don't recollect ever being called an "inspiration" before :eek: .

I've watched several of the other shooters at our tourneys shoot
head-on to me and it may be one of those optical illusions because
they look like they are aiming (as I see it), to the Left. What I see
when they shoot away from me is dead-on for what they are attempting
judging from the results of the shot and their reaction. I could be wrong,
but that's what I see.
Is your student also a Lefty? Same dominate eye as you? Does he get as
far 'down' on the shot as you or lower/higher? Just tossing out some ideas
about why/how it may appear different.
As always all suggestions welcome.

Stay dry, stay safe.

hank
When watching him from the side it does not nearly punctuate the stroke, and from straight on from the back then his body, of which he stands more squarely to the table, blocks clear vision of the stroke. I've had to work extensively with his stance. I cam up with watching him from the front, and holly cow then everything became apparent. It's funny it's not on every shot, but certain shots. He is right handed so my diagrams had to be set up for him being right handed, and also I had to make the shot easier to reach and stroke easily, for he has bridging problems when closer to the rail. The different bridges and adjusting the bridge from low to high causes him problems.

I want him to do stroking exercises, whereas he strokes beside the cb using low, center, and high, and warm up to end up stroking through very hard. Then stroke the cb. Free stroking plus stroking the cb for 10 minutes before he ever shoots a shot. This really loosen up the stroke, and pocketing balls is so much easier, than just starting off cold turkey, what a difference.

His stroke is always downward upon the cb which does not make for a clean response when using follow on the cb, for the downward angle stroke slows and widens the cb path. Once he works on the diagramed shots, I then will go through all of them with him and show him the difference between a clean follow shot and one that drags the cb more and spreads the angle out. Same with draw, for he is not stroking low enough to get a clean draw back response.

He, in his own mind at times thinks he has problems lining up his eye on the shot, and he tries to get his left eye over the stick, but in watching him from the front he always ends up with the cue directly centered under his chin, like most of us. He stands more upright than I do when addressing the shot, pretty normal. he wears bifocals and this might cause him having trouble coming down on the shot correctly, for I see him come down on the cb wrongly and then start adjusting from there, but his eyes does go back and forth from cb to ob.
Thanks for trying to help from a far, I appreciate it. thanks, Whitey
 
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hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

You've been a huge help to me all I can offer in return is small thoughts
and notions that I've had to observe for myself about myself.

I also wear Bi-focal glasses. Generally the smaller section is for reading and
focuses out to about 12" to 20" although the Dr. can adjust that on the patients
request. What I do to line up a shot is stand back then when I've decided on
my shot I come down and slide into position. This allows me to keep the larger
(Distant), vision section on the OB and I can still see clearly enough over the
"Line" to align on the CB. I can also locate the "Line" so that I can focus on the
CB with the Close vision section and the OB with the Distant section. The
difference is not that great with my eyes. Might talk with him about it. Maybe
he can get by with a set of just distant vision perhaps not.

Are you mirroring your shots for him on the opposite side of the table from
yours? There are a couple of Lefties at the VFW and when we compare some
shots they will line up on one side of the table and I set up on the other. Balls
spot directly across from each other and for crossing shots we set first one up
then mirror for the other. Kind of handy actually.

So there's some return on the time you invested with me. Hope I can pay it all
back and with some interest.

hank
 

lll

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hank
dont know if you have studied the "tracks" of how the 3rd rail connects to the 4th rail (or fifth rail ) with the corner 5
on the clean table you are playing on once you find the track (ie 3rd rail number) to the corner aiming one diamond longer or shorter will go to the same spots regardless what that number is compared to the old numbers
ie going one diamond longer than the track to the corner will always end up in the same place
i hope i havent confused you.
your dedication and work to improve is inspiring and i am glad you are seeing progress
:)
larry
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Whitey, Howdy;

You've been a huge help to me all I can offer in return is small thoughts
and notions that I've had to observe for myself about myself.

I also wear Bi-focal glasses. Generally the smaller section is for reading and
focuses out to about 12" to 20" although the Dr. can adjust that on the patients
request. What I do to line up a shot is stand back then when I've decided on
my shot I come down and slide into position. This allows me to keep the larger
(Distant), vision section on the OB and I can still see clearly enough over the
"Line" to align on the CB. I can also locate the "Line" so that I can focus on the
CB with the Close vision section and the OB with the Distant section. The
difference is not that great with my eyes. Might talk with him about it. Maybe
he can get by with a set of just distant vision perhaps not.

Are you mirroring your shots for him on the opposite side of the table from
yours? There are a couple of Lefties at the VFW and when we compare some
shots they will line up on one side of the table and I set up on the other. Balls
spot directly across from each other and for crossing shots we set first one up
then mirror for the other. Kind of handy actually.

So there's some return on the time you invested with me. Hope I can pay it all
back and with some interest.

hank
Thanks Hank, I'll have him stand back away from the shot, and then step into the shot, and see how it goes. He has bifocals, for otherwise he could not see the cb clearly.
I'd like him to lay the cue across the rail perfectly lined up on the shot with his right foot planted then step into the shot with his left. I have worked on this approach before, to improve his stance. I believe Jim Rempe uses this technique when instructing how to get the proper stance.
But I haven't had him stand farther back to line up the shot. Johnny Archer went to this method as he got older.
So by step, 1st. stand back to get the visual, 2nd. keep visual, 3rd. approach and lay cue across rail lined up on the shot, 4th. step into the shot.
If it works, I'll make him up an index card listing the steps. thanks, Whitey
 
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