martinez/efren 163

Tom Wirth

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I've been studying this brutal situation and if not something along the lines of what Jeff and I suggested the only other shot I might be inclined to try would be to draw off the fifteen to slide behind the ball by RM's pocket. This way I don't have to be all that accurate to get safe. There are a few ways to get there this way and none of them are likely to cause a scratch.

Tom
 
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Tom Wirth

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Here are a couple possible paths the cue ball might take off the fifteen which can result in a safety. Tough shot but it might be a better solution than my previous option. These paths remove much of the scratch possibilities.

Using the fifteen to get behind this ball by RM's pocket does one more thing to help my cause. It removes the fifteen from the area. Even though the fifteen is in my striking zone it is a liability. It provides an ideal ball for my opponent to use to get me back behind the ten and three. Removing it makes hooking me back there far more challenging.

Now with Efren, his mind works differently than any player I've ever seen, so I too am interested in knowing what he chose to do.

Tom
 

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LSJohn

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Using the fifteen to get behind this ball by RM's pocket does one more thing to help my cause. It removes the fifteen from the area. Even though the fifteen is in my striking zone it is a liability. It provides an ideal ball for my opponent to use to get me back behind the ten and three. Removing it makes hooking me back there far more challenging.


Tom
See, this is why we need the book! :D
 

LSJohn

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OK, I've looked at this shot a long time and finally figured out my best move... seek a settlement. :p

I think Efren banked the 7 and tried to leave CB in the middle of the top rail, or fired it to leave CB straight in on the 2.
 

lll

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efren tried to re clog up the the balls along rafa's side rail
shooting this
em1.jpg
 

lll

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unfortunately
he left rafael like this
rafael this time shot the 14 into the 1
this time with the 11 there the 1 came off the rail caromed into the 11 and went in the pocket
rafael got behind the 3..5?(solid by the 10 ball)
made the 5-13 combo and ran a
few balls
em2.jpg
 

gulfportdoc

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I did look at that option Doc, but it made my heart skip a couple of beats with the degree of difficulty and the likely possibility of a scratch due to the angle coming backwards under the 15 ball. Of course we are talking Efren here, but I still think he would freeze whitey to the 10. What's Rafael gonna do from there?
Well, he just keeps pushing balls closer to his hole until he has you constricted like a python....:(
~Doc
 

gulfportdoc

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Doc, if you can do that, then you "ARE THE MAN". that's one tough shot my friend. Easy to scratch off that ball near the hole. Easy to not get enough draw on the stone and sell out. If you can pull it off than it is the right shot at the right time, but I doubt you will succeed very often attempting your shot. ...
The low-right draw shot is easier than it looks. Try it, you'll like it. If I can do it with my little pissant stroke, anyone can.;) I'd rather do that than have him slowly strangle me to death!

~Doc
 

gulfportdoc

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Here are a couple possible paths the cue ball might take off the fifteen which can result in a safety. Tough shot but it might be a better solution than my previous option. These paths remove much of the scratch possibilities.

Using the fifteen to get behind this ball by RM's pocket does one more thing to help my cause. It removes the fifteen from the area. Even though the fifteen is in my striking zone it is a liability. It provides an ideal ball for my opponent to use to get me back behind the ten and three. Removing it makes hooking me back there far more challenging. ,,,
You want to shoot THIS shot, drawing off the 15, which is basically a trick shot, but you think the draw off the 1 is too difficult?:lol

~Doc
 

gulfportdoc

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efren tried to re clog up the the balls along rafa's side rail
shooting this
Even the great Efren makes a dumb shot now and then...:) I think that Raphael had Reyes thinking goofy.:D

~Doc
 

Mkbtank

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martinez/efren 163

Even the great Efren makes a dumb shot now and then...:) I think that Raphael had Reyes thinking goofy.:D



~Doc


I can see Steve in the background telling the guy next to him that he would have banked the 7 😜
 

Tom Wirth

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The low-right draw shot is easier than it looks. Try it, you'll like it. If I can do it with my little pissant stroke, anyone can.;) I'd rather do that than have him slowly strangle me to death!

Doc, you have two issues with your shot which make it very difficult to pull off. I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm only saying that I have my doubts that I could do it successfully more than, say; 2 out of 5 tries. The first issue is the distance between the one and the cue ball will make a precise hit when using extreme draw challenging for me. The second issue I will have has to do with the high probability of a scratch. There is a third problem which would have to be faced even if the shot is successfully accomplished. What do you think RM will do from this position? What would you do? As I see it, it is a simple matter to use a slight draw off the fifteen and put me right back behind the two balls I just came from.
~Doc
You want to shoot THIS shot, drawing off the 15, which is basically a trick shot, but you think the draw off the 1 is too difficult?:lol

~Doc
Doc, this is not my first choice. I realize the shot is difficult, but this shot has three things going for it that the other shot does not. First, the fifteen is much closer to the cue ball so the hit is more likely to be accurate. Second, the angle of approach toward the ball near RM's pocket reduces the risk of scratching dramatically. Third, now the fifteen is no longer available to RM to use to put me behind those balls again.

So, between these two options, I'm going with the second every time.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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It's funny, I saw the shot ER took here but I did not think I could control the object ball well enough to clog the path of the (I think it was the) eight ball. He pulled that off but still gave up the easy combo. When was this match? I think Efren is slipping. That shot had little chance of success. RM has multiple ways to push balls toward his pocket and lag the cue ball back behind those two balls. I don't understand that shot selection.

Tom
 

unoperro

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unfortunately
he left rafael like this
rafael this time shot the 14 into the 1
this time with the 11 there the 1 came off the rail caromed into the 11 and went in the pocket
rafael got behind the 3..5?(solid by the 10 ball)
made the 5-13 combo and ran a
few balls
View attachment 12481
This shot would have been effective if "He had repositioned the cueball to the head rail".
He just hit it a little soft.
Put whitey on the end rail ,àlong the same path, and now how do you respond?
 

Tom Wirth

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This shot would have been effective if "He had repositioned the cueball to the head rail".
He just hit it a little soft.
Put whitey on the end rail ,àlong the same path, and now how do you respond?
The problem with hitting this shot any harder is that the six ball will pull away from the side rail and give up the free shot on the eight or two. He had to hit that shot softly. It just was a poor choice.

Tom
 

NH Steve

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It's funny, I saw the shot ER took here but I did not think I could control the object ball well enough to clog the path of the (I think it was the) eight ball. He pulled that off but still gave up the easy combo. When was this match? I think Efren is slipping. That shot had little chance of success. RM has multiple ways to push balls toward his pocket and lag the cue ball back behind those two balls. I don't understand that shot selection.

Tom
Yes Efren's was a shot I was considering too -- guess I need to reconsider next time this comes up lol.
 
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