you both need one

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/j8y86jKspRMgvQcKA
I would like to know the draw back to this shot. The cb is captured and can not be stroked into the opposite long rail to one rail kick.
I'd shoot this shot and wait for a better one.

I've worked this shot scenario quite a bit, and I find that a bank can be left fairly easy. On my table with the cb frozen to a little less than 1//2 diamond on the foot rail, I can still back bank the ob into my hole @ 1-7/8 diamond opposite long rail.
So at 1 to 1-1/2 would be fairly simple. It would be fortunate to expect the cb to continue forward after contacting the ob to the 1st diamond foot rail.

Oh Bob, you have some pretty far out diagrams. some of those are very interesting. Whitey
 

unoperro

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WWhhiitteeyteitQUOTE="Dennis "Whitey" Young, post: 450716, member: 196509"]
https://photos.app.goo.gl/j8y86jKspRMgvQcKA
I would like to know the draw back to this shot. The cb is captured and can not be stroked into the opposite long rail to one rail kick.
I'd shoot this shot and wait for a better one.

I've worked this shot scenario quite a bit, and I find that a bank can be left fairly easy. On my table with the cb frozen to a little less than 1//2 diamond on the foot rail, I can still back bank the ob into my hole @ 1-7/8 diamond opposite long rail.
So at 1 to 1-1/2 would be fairly simple. It would be fortunate to expect the cb to continue forward after contacting the ob to the 1st diamond foot rail.

Oh Bob, you have some pretty far out diagrams. some of those are very interesting. Whitey
[/QUOTE]

Whitey you left it good,there is no drawback to how you left it. Well it is in a big ball position for a 2/3 rail kick or a "efren" masse.
There are lots of ways to hit it bad and there are drawbacks to those.
You point out drawbacks to the other shot being poorly executed so you have to admit yours isn't fool proof either!
 

Billy Jackets

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/j8y86jKspRMgvQcKA
I would like to know the draw back to this shot. The cb is captured and can not be stroked into the opposite long rail to one rail kick.
I'd shoot this shot and wait for a better one.

I've worked this shot scenario quite a bit, and I find that a bank can be left fairly easy. On my table with the cb frozen to a little less than 1//2 diamond on the foot rail, I can still back bank the ob into my hole @ 1-7/8 diamond opposite long rail.
So at 1 to 1-1/2 would be fairly simple. It would be fortunate to expect the cb to continue forward after contacting the ob to the 1st diamond foot rail.

Oh Bob, you have some pretty far out diagrams. some of those are very interesting. Whitey
I saw Rudolfo Luat bank a ball about 2 balls below the opponents side pocket , either frozen or just off the rail back into his pocket from about 2 1/2 diamonds up . He put inside english on the cueball and pinched that ball at an angle I never saw made before. I can't find the original but I found John Barton shooting it, Luats original shot had more angle I believe. Goes to show, you better get that ball up at least 2 1/2 diamonds , which I am sure , pros can do the majority of the time, not so sure us duffers can . especially the farther out from the pocket the ob is.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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upoperro & Billy Jackets; thanks for the reply.
Larry has set up a pretty tough kick IMO. Now if the cb was further from the foot rail then it would be much easier to make on the kick that you want. But with this set up it requires a lot of spin on the cb, and thus much harder to judge. For this reason I am suggesting doing a soft kick, and of course if you hit it bad then you sell out a fairly easy bank.

Actually, even hitting it soft with spin is no easy task, for the spin could come off of it by the time it gets to rail, and then you sell out. I had this problem, so I moved it closer to immolate a 9' table. You can also get an unwanted push on the cb because of the so soft of a hit, and then you sell out.

Luat is playing Cole when he does that bank, I believe they are playing OP. Cole does a twist bank in that match. It is in the bank forum. But if you go back a few pages, maybe page 5, then there is a thread; 'impossible bank or is it'. My friend on a 4 x 8 w/ ob on the 3rd diamond long rail and cb on the opposite 1st diamond long rail, back banks it in the hole.

I am anxious to see what Larry comes up with for a shot after he works with it. thanks, Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Unoperro,
Update, I was able to masse' the shot I left, by contacting the opposite side rail @ 1-1/2 diamond and I buried the ob right in the hole, first try.
So I did not have him captured enough.
Like I stated; "Larry has a tough wwyd here".
I think if you shoot softly and slightly into the point then you can get behind the ob. Whitey
 

lll

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Whitey your soft spin shot I don’t have a touch for yet
and the bank off the tit would be too low percentage for me
 
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lll

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The variations of 3 railing the cue ball I still have balls flying everywhere at the moment
i need a lot of work on that
if the object ball was a little closer to the first diamond on the short rail or the cue ball had more angle it would be easier for me
 

lll

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Thanks to all who replied and whitey for the videos and bob for the drawings
i have more ideas to practice now
you all have taught me a lot (y) (y)
 

crabbcatjohn

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I saw Rudolfo Luat bank a ball about 2 balls below the opponents side pocket , either frozen or just off the rail back into his pocket from about 2 1/2 diamonds up . He put inside english on the cueball and pinched that ball at an angle I never saw made before. I can't find the original but I found John Barton shooting it, Luats original shot had more angle I believe. Goes to show, you better get that ball up at least 2 1/2 diamonds , which I am sure , pros can do the majority of the time, not so sure us duffers can . especially the farther out from the pocket the ob is.
Buddy's cousin who taught me one pocket was great at that bank. I was in awe the first few times he made it against me and so i learned it. I still shoot it often but its a little harder on a bar box. I also shoot a few similar back cut inside english banks Buddy taught me, he is deadly at that bank too. I never see anybody shoot it.
 

lll

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whats the percent make?
whats the percent of players that have a reasonable chance to make it??
 

crabbcatjohn

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For me, on a GC when i'm warmed up and i see it laying right..., its almost automatic. I hung a winner 8 ball on a tight bar box the other day shooting it. There's a little trick to aiming those type banks and the aiming point is pretty much the same on all of them. It comes up often with different banks that lay the same. As you have a table Larry, sometime when your at the table call me and i'll tell you how to practice them
 
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lll

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For me, on a GC when i'm warmed up and i see it laying right..., its almost automatic. I hung a winner 8 ball on a tight bar box the other day shooting it. There's a little trick to aiming those type banks and the aiming point is pretty much the same on all of them. It comes up often with different banks that lay the same. As you have a table Larry, sometime when your at the table call me and i'll tell you how to practice them
Thanks john.. (y)
I will give you a call
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/S84Bb7UPuj4HkXTj8 A beautiful shot wonderfully getting out of the kiss.
Larry, I believe this shot rivals the kick shot you like. Plus it baits the opponent to try and bank towards his hole, which is a kiss. You do have to be mindful that you could pocket the ob in the upper corner pocket, so speed is a concern. But I play the ob speed vs. playing the cb, for the cb will be ok if you get the ob into that sweat spot.
I did not share before because I was trying to do to much with this shot, and I felt I was leaving a return bank, but I revisited it and smooth out and simplified the stroke, and now got the desired results. Enjoy, Whitey
 
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BRLongArm

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/S84Bb7UPuj4HkXTj8 A beautiful shot wonderfully getting out of the kiss.
Larry, I believe this shot rivals the kick shot you like. Plus it baits the opponent to try and bank towards his hole, which is a kiss. You do have to be mindful that you could pocket the ob in the upper corner pocket, so speed is a concern. But I play the ob speed vs. playing the cb, for the cb will be ok if you get the ob into that sweat spot.
I did not share before because I was trying to do to much with this shot, and I felt I was leaving a return bank, but I revisited it and smooth out and simplified the stroke, and now got the desired results. Enjoy, Whitey
You get it out good, but he's got the kick bank to his hole depending on how the balls lay. Try the same shot, but instead of inside, use bottom outside and let the cue ball go three rails back to the bottom rail. The object ball goes up around the top right corner.
 
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