Equipment Changes

[titanic jerry]

I guess it is called progress. The fiberglass pole in high jumping, various shoes for various sports,Simonis cloth, 6 ounce gloves in boxing, higher horsepower engines for auto racing, astro turf and the list goes on and on.

With those changes come a new set of records since the guys before had different equipment and therefore the playing field is uneven. People will go to their graves with their positions on the subject.

But I have a real peeve.............................size of pockets. When this group collectively sets some standards I hope pocket size is a factor which is looked at closely.

What would you rather have a pocket that once the ball is in the jaws it cannot be removed. Don't you recall the pleasure of knocking the guys ball out of his hole and sometimes if you hit it real good it would roll over into your hole.

Please fellas do not allow that part of the game to be removed because some people like tight pockets.

 

[hemicudas]

I guess it is called progress. The fiberglass pole in high jumping, various shoes for various sports,Simonis cloth, 6 ounce gloves in boxing, higher horsepower engines for auto racing, astro turf and the list goes on and on.

With those changes come a new set of records since the guys before had different equipment and therefore the playing field is uneven. People will go to their graves with their positions on the subject.

But I have a real peeve.............................size of pockets. When this group collectively sets some standards I hope pocket size is a factor which is looked at closely.

What would you rather have a pocket that once the ball is in the jaws it cannot be removed. Don't you recall the pleasure of knocking the guys ball out of his hole and sometimes if you hit it real good it would roll over into your hole.

Please fellas do not allow that part of the game to be removed because some people like tight pockets.

I totally agree, Jerry. Problem is, many young players have never seen a table that you could dig a ball out of.

 

[Woody_968]

No More Shims

No More Shims

I agree too Jerry, the room I play at only has two tables that are anywhere close to playable. But they both have shimmed pockets, and the shims are terrible! They are so bad it takes 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch away from the rail that you cant bank a ball off of! Not to mention you can shoot a ball that hits the inside of the shim at a speed at which the ball should go into the pocket, but the ball will hang. All this because they wanted to make the pocket a little smaller.

 

[titanic jerry]

Hey Woody

Hey Woody

Welcome to one pocket.org. Why do the players insist on tighter pockets? If they are the better player they are going to beat their opponent anyway so what is the point. The golfers don't ask for a smaller cup to putt into . So I ask any one who has an idea as to why to please respond.It would be like race car driovers to ask for smaller tracks and tighter turns and bowlers asking for smaller and lighter bowling balls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. Tell me a little about yourself how long ya been playing and where and where you are now etc.

Thanks Titanic jerry

 

[Rod]

I like a little tighter pockets but not unreasonable. I agree you shoulld be able to dig certain balls out. Regarding shimmed pockets, I'm not sure what people or some room owners are thinking. Like Woody said, the rail near the pocket is dead. The right way is extend the cushion. If you want to move whitey and need to hit that spot who knows what's gonna happen. They play terrible IMO. Not to mention 1 hole isn't the only game played on them.

Rod

 

[Troy]

Pocket Size

Pocket Size

I've played on tables with the "standard" single shim and on tables with both double and triple shims. My preference is 4.5" corner pockets done correctly, that is, by lengthening the rails and with a single shim. Any tighter becomes rediculous for taking a ball out. I agree that that the "extra" shims makes the table play "funny", but if necessary, I just live with it and adjust.

Troy

 

[vapros]

Equipment changes

Equipment changes

This entire thread is geared toward the better one-pocket players, and that is as it should be. This site is for those players.

But bear in mind that most pool rooms make their money mostly from the other players, not the action crowd. In dealing with the public, the wise thing is to help them feel like better players than they really are. My own experience is from the bowling business, and take my word for it, high scores are good business. Put up light pins, or bend the rules and jack up the flat gutters for more pin action, or help them hit the pocket with your lane dressing program. In pool, most of your customers are not hoping that their marginal shots will be rejected by tight pockets. They want to see the balls fall when they shoot.

The proprietor might just have to choose which players he should try to please.

 

[gulfportdoc]

The proprietor might just have to choose which players he should try to please.

Vapros, you make some good points. However some rooms have one, two, or more tables (depending upon the size of the room) with tighter pockets to accommodate the better players.

Doc

 

[davAmundo]

Tight vs. Loose Pockets

Tight vs. Loose Pockets

I went home to Erie, PA over this weekend for a visit. I played some one-pocket at a room called Gold Crown Billiards run by a pretty good player in his own right - Paul Scoffield. I think that the tables have been "adjusted" to allow for the easier pocketing of balls (i.e. he has cut the rails out to make the pockets bigger...) I remember when I was living in Erie, and the subject of tight tables came up, and Paul asked me if I would want to come in and play pool all the time if I never pocketed a ball. I said that I wouldn't, and then he asked me if I thought that it followed that if people pocketed LOTS of balls, they would want to play more often/longer. I had to think about it, but eventually I agreed with him. His room doesn't cater to the poolplayers in town - his opinion is that he doesn't make any money off of the poolplayers. They are "cheap", they complain about how much they have to pay for time, they typically don't drink or eat while they are in the room, they beat his regular customers out of money that they would otherwise be spending in the room, and sometimes that scares them away to where they don't come back. Any thoughts? Do pool halls make more money on the good players, or the casual players?

Back to the tight pockets issue - I found that I had lost a lot of table real estate because the pockets had been cut out. The object balls had to be about 1/2 inch further from the short rail before I could bank them back at my hole. I couldn't shoot some two-railers out of the kitchen because they would hit the point of the pockets that had been enlarged. It was frustrating to me. I didn't feel like I benefited as much from the ability to pocket balls easier, as I lost because there were some banks that I wanted to shoot that I couldn't. Anyone ever experience this?

DavAmundo

 

[yobagua]

Just some thoughts

Just some thoughts

I have mixed feelings about the "regulars" versus the "civilians" thing. Ive made an estimate about 15 to 20 hard core regulars in our room. Thats guys who come in everyday. Thats even during bad weather, holidays, etc. They spend from about $10 to $20 a day to $40 or $50 on the top end. This is food, drinks, and table time. Thats every day folks. Now we have a core of semi regs who come in at least 3 times a week. Thats about 10. Playing occasionally. Spending about $5 to $10 a visit. So lets say about $300 a day average. Thats like $9000 a month. Every month. Thats your regulars. We regulars supply you your "nut".

The room Im in is now trying to play to the outside people-the "civilians". So its loud music, pizza parties, no snooker tables (golf action), 86ing action players, hip hollywood bartenders who are rude to the regulars who are not their to get drunk but to stay in focus. The owner knows he can count on his regulars have totally taken them for granted. Its become very uncomfortable for serious players and even the tables set aside for us have been open to college kids who mess up the cloth trying to show off their masse skills to their buddies and often stained with drinks left on the table.

Ernesto covers our table and he double shims the pockets. They are tight and in order to run out you have to not only have skills but the mental focus. Many of us like it that way. Parica came in and gave one of the local shortstops the 6,7,and 8. When he realized it was a tough table he really bared down and showed an exhibition and won the day. Mike Massey came in and played 50 no count straight pool and realized he couldnt do it. But to see him struggle to do so was for the pool enthusiast the nuts. Hey an episode of Friends or Fraser might be fun but we like to see some Shakespeare or Tennessee Williams sometimes too.

ESPN keeps on appealing to the lowest common denominator with their lame 7 ball and pop know nothing announcers. There are some in the billiard industry who follow and think that is the way to make it. I dont think its quantity but quality that we need. Look at the snooker scene in England. Its constant attention to detail and excellence has made the sport what it is. I cant wait till the day that ESPN airs the US Open One Pocket matches with Grady and Diliberto. Demand it!

 

[Pelican]

Have posted this elsewhere and will post it here.

For pool to be successful on television it has to have (1) exciting personalities (2) a game that is fast and involves more than two players - and (3) lots of MONEY! And by money I don't mean holding up a 4 foot long check - I mean cash dumped out on the table by the bucket full. These are the things that will get the public excited and if the public gets excited the corporate sponsors get excited. That folks is what it is going to take to bring pool up the the televised level of golf, tennis, poker, or whatever.

The game that will do this - 10 ball ring game.

Later, Pel

 

[Woody_968]

P.S. Tell me a little about yourself how long ya been playing and where and where you are now etc.

Thanks Titanic jerry

Hi Jerry

I have been playing pool for around 16 yrs, I quit for a few years but came back to the game last winter. I put a table in my garage and decided if I was going to play I was going to try to be a good player. I had Scott Lee come in for a lesson and have put in alot of work and feel my game has improved. I hope to go see Mark Wilson soon and take some lessons from him.

I just really started to try and learn one pocket a few months ago. I had played it before but never really tried to learn the game, there is a big difference

Over the last few months I have also started to study straight pool, I really like that game as well. Between one pocket and straight pool it has gotten to where I hate nine ball

Thanks for the welcome to the board,
Woody

 

[titanic jerry]

Practice,practice, practice

Practice,practice, practice

Hey Woody,
Thanks for the reply! Was lucky when young to be able to see great players at Cochran's in San Francisco. If you really want to learn one pocket try to get as many tapes of Ronnie allen as you can. If you can just figure out his concept and approach to the game you will really benefit from it.
I grew up in a town where snooker was the game and we played it well. But the game of choice for me was straight pool. To be able to keep your opponent sitting in his chair and all the attention was on you as you were pocketing balls was the ultimate ego trip. What is tough is finding someone your speed to practice with.
But all the old players had the same thing to say......if you want to get better you have to play people better than you. You go buy a table,all the books, all the video tapes, the stick you love and you will only progress so far. Only live action is a three dimensional or reality.
As you play in your garage keep this in mind. The pool halls of yesteryear were quiet places. When two top players were in action they were the only ones making any noise.It was very common for a player to hit the cue ball and say oh i missed that shot way before it got to the object ball because you could hear it!!!!! Take notice that different strokes and hits sound different.

Good luck and participate as much as possible on this forum.Most people want to hear your questions or remarks. There are some great people on this website.

Titanic Jerry

 

[hemicudas]

Tap,tap,tap.!!!

Tap,tap,tap.!!!

Hey Woody,
Thanks for the reply! Was lucky when young to be able to see great players at Cochran's in San Francisco. If you really want to learn one pocket try to get as many tapes of Ronnie allen as you can. If you can just figure out his concept and approach to the game you will really benefit from it.
I grew up in a town where snooker was the game and we played it well. But the game of choice for me was straight pool. To be able to keep your opponent sitting in his chair and all the attention was on you as you were pocketing balls was the ultimate ego trip. What is tough is finding someone your speed to practice with.
But all the old players had the same thing to say......if you want to get better you have to play people better than you. You go buy a table,all the books, all the video tapes, the stick you love and you will only progress so far. Only live action is a three dimensional or reality.
As you play in your garage keep this in mind. The pool halls of yesteryear were quiet places. When two top players were in action they were the only ones making any noise.It was very common for a player to hit the cue ball and say oh i missed that shot way before it got to the object ball because you could hear it!!!!! Take notice that different strokes and hits sound different.

Good luck and participate as much as possible on this forum.Most people want to hear your questions or remarks. There are some great people on this website.

Titanic Jerry

Nice shot, Jerry. Woody, heed what Jerry is saying. He knows of what he speaks,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,$Bill

 

[suki]

Not quite what I remember

Not quite what I remember

Hey Woody,
Thanks for the reply! Was lucky when young to be able to see great players at Cochran's in San Francisco. If you really want to learn one pocket try to get as many tapes of Ronnie allen as you can. If you can just figure out his concept and approach to the game you will really benefit from it.
I grew up in a town where snooker was the game and we played it well. But the game of choice for me was straight pool. To be able to keep your opponent sitting in his chair and all the attention was on you as you were pocketing balls was the ultimate ego trip. What is tough is finding someone your speed to practice with.
But all the old players had the same thing to say......if you want to get better you have to play people better than you. You go buy a table,all the books, all the video tapes, the stick you love and you will only progress so far. Only live action is a three dimensional or reality.
As you play in your garage keep this in mind. The pool halls of yesteryear were quiet places. When two top players were in action they were the only ones making any noise.It was very common for a player to hit the cue ball and say oh i missed that shot way before it got to the object ball because you could hear it!!!!! Take notice that different strokes and hits sound different.

Good luck and participate as much as possible on this forum.Most people want to hear your questions or remarks. There are some great people on this website.

Titanic Jerry

I agree with you wholeheartedly with all your points except, and it is must a matter of memory, but if you are talking about growing up at Cochran's and it was quiet I have to beg to differ. I remember lots of games I was in that it was far from quiet. First of all you could not hear yourself think as they were one of the first places to show the Gilette Friday night fights on televsion and the place would be packed. That would go on for 3 hours in prime time for gambling on payday Friday. The place was always so busy with street people, pimps, drug dealers, and pool players jawing at each other for games, it seemed constant. Not only that there was the noise from the lunch counter that was constantly busy. A lot depended on where you played. Plus the people coming in and out up the stairs from the front before they blocked it off. Then you had all the people sitting around in the seats that encirlced the room there was a lot of activity all over the place. There were always arguments among patrons all the time not including you never knew when a fight was going to break out. When Ronnie Allen came to play which was quite a bit, it could not be quiet, he never stopped talking. How about when Bucktooth popped in. He didn't care if anyone was playing , his mouth was going a mile a minute. Of course the place was big and if you played in the corner it might have been quiet around the table for the railbirds but that was about it. Maybe it changed when you got there but I remember a lot of activity all the time.
No big deal just thought that comment was funny compared to my memory.