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-   -   Frozen Ball Banks! (http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15368)

Dennis "Whitey" Young 04-22-2019 12:54 AM

Frozen Ball Banks!
 
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bN...w?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16mW...w?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEL...w?usp=drivesdk
Start from the top on down.
I believe the middle video most accurately shows the angle I am stroking this shot on. Although the others are also stroked on this exact same angle, it appears not so.

On another thread, it came up about the power needed to bank a ball that is frozen. So I did a couple of frozen ball banks.
The OB is positioned a little less than a 1/2 diamond from the corner pocket. The CB is on a direct line from the ob to the center of the cross corner pocket.
I use extreme high center ball with a level follow through. You can not hold back, you have to go for it.
I believe the ob compresses the cushion just enough and this coupled with the speed of the cb it avoids the kiss.
I through in an extra cross side bank. The pressure was on for the Easter Dinner was being called within 10 min. First tries almost, thank goodness. My daughter; "goes you are pretty good at these banks". I had to laugh, for some of my shots I have threaded took a few to many takes. It was not easy to convince her in the first place, that I could do these takes in 10 min., but I nailed it!

Double click to enlarge then hit play, and a couple are in slow motion. Have a good time trying it, I mean it looks easy, and you do have a little angle to work with, well good luck and Happy Easter! Let me know how you did! Whitey

lll 04-22-2019 07:24 AM

whitey
i first set up the bank with the object ball at the first diamond thinking that was the shot...its early in the AM and not much coffee yet.....:heh
it wasnt that difficult and i did not have to hit it too hard
then i remembered (the coffee was starting to work....:D) that the object ball was about a half a diamond from the corner so my placement was alittle higher than yours
first attempt soft i got a double kiss
second try with pace i made it ....:)
the cut is towards the foot rail but the pace stiffens it
yes i agree its probably the compression of the rail that changes the rebound angle
i wanted to hit it with inside (my intuition was talking to me) but i remembered you just used follow (maybe the little bit of draw put on the object ball also helps to shorten it ) and made it with just follow ..:)
nice bank
thanks for the videos

NH Steve 04-22-2019 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young (Post 256271)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-bN...w?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16mW...w?usp=drivesdk
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZEL...w?usp=drivesdk
Start from the top on down.
I believe the middle video most accurately shows the angle I am stroking this shot on. Although the others are also stroked on this exact same angle, it appears not so.

On another thread, it came up about the power needed to bank a ball that is frozen. So I did a couple of frozen ball banks.
The OB is positioned a little less than a 1/2 diamond from the corner pocket. The CB is on a direct line from the ob to the center of the cross corner pocket.
I use extreme high center ball with a level follow through. You can not hold back, you have to go for it.
I believe the ob compresses the cushion just enough and this coupled with the speed of the cb it avoids the kiss.
I through in an extra cross side bank. The pressure was on for the Easter Dinner was being called within 10 min. First tries almost, thank goodness. My daughter; "goes you are pretty good at these banks". I had to laugh, for some of my shots I have threaded took a few to many takes. It was not easy to convince her in the first place, that I could do these takes in 10 min., but I nailed it!

Double click to enlarge then hit play, and a couple are in slow motion. Have a good time trying it, I mean it looks easy, and you do have a little angle to work with, well good luck and Happy Easter! Let me know how you did! Whitey

Fantastic!! Yes -- in fact I believe Taylor was known for even worse looking bank/kiss angles than these. Not that of course he was the only one who could make them. I'm just saying he was especially known for making this sort of fringe/close to a kiss bank.

Another one, which I cannot take the time to diagram at the moment, but I think I can describe, is cue ball in the kitchen near the side rail, and an object ball close to frozen at the 2nd from the bottom diamond on the other side rail, and he banked it across corner without a kiss. It looks impossible!

hankh 04-22-2019 11:01 AM

Whitey, Howdy;

Nice shot! Did a stop to see how you hit the OB, appears to be a 1/4 ball hit.
(middle link), as Freddy would describe it. Think I'll try this later today when
I go for practice.
Thanks,

hank

lll 04-22-2019 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankh (Post 256282)
Whitey, Howdy;

Nice shot! Did a stop to see how you hit the OB, appears to be a 1/4 ball hit.
(middle link), as Freddy would describe it. Think I'll try this later today when
I go for practice.
Thanks,

hank

hank
try it with the object ball on the first diamond to see/feel the difference in the hit

Kybanks 04-22-2019 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NH Steve (Post 256277)
Fantastic!! Yes -- in fact I believe Taylor was known for even worse looking bank/kiss angles than these. Not that of course he was the only one who could make them. I'm just saying he was especially known for making this sort of fringe/close to a kiss bank.

Another one, which I cannot take the time to diagram at the moment, but I think I can describe, is cue ball in the kitchen near the side rail, and an object ball close to frozen at the 2nd from the bottom diamond on the other side rail, and he banked it across corner without a kiss. It looks impossible!

Nick Varner showed me the cross corner you are describing, the unbelievable part is Nick said he held the bank without crossing it. And yes it looks like it will never go.

NH Steve 04-22-2019 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kybanks (Post 256320)
Nick Varner showed me the cross corner you are describing, the unbelievable part is Nick said he held the bank without crossing it. And yes it looks like it will never go.

Yes -- exactly -- he was holding up that bank without a kiss!!

Dennis "Whitey" Young 04-24-2019 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankh (Post 256282)
Whitey, Howdy;

Nice shot! Did a stop to see how you hit the OB, appears to be a 1/4 ball hit.
(middle link), as Freddy would describe it. Think I'll try this later today when
I go for practice.
Thanks,

hank

Hank, thanks for trying the shot. I think lll had a good idea for your 7 footer by trying it off the first diamond.
But the hit is much heavier than a 1/4 ball hit. The way I have this shot set up, I then shoot it with the outside edge of my cue lined up with the edge of the object ball. This is more than a 1/2 ball hit.

I also did the stop motion on the middle link, and the initial reaction is that the ob goes to the left while the cb is going to the right, and as the ob is coming back off the rail it barely clears the cb.

Steve, Yes, as you pointed out that the shot can be set up tougher and still go, and I have done it working with less angle than I set up. This set up gives the members a good starting point for trying the shot!

Let me clarify the above, it is easier to make this shot when it is set up harder in the side pocket. For the side pocket is a way larger opening when coming from straight across vs. a corner pocket coming in from that same angle. Plus the end cushion if contacted makes if even harder to make it in the corner pocket. I have come close to and rattled it with the ob set an 1" or so closer to the corner pocket, but as of yet have not made it.

I also suspect the type of cushion would greatly effect this shot. Whitey

hankh 04-24-2019 07:51 PM

Whitye, Howdy;

Went an looked at it again, your' correct, of course, more of a 1/2 ball hit. I also
noticed that you are starting with the CB about 1 diamond from the near corner pocket.
I was starting with CB just outside of the pocket. Note to self; need to pay better
attention to detail. I'll try it again tomorrow before the 9-Ball tourney. Also, lll's
suggestion of placing the OB nearer the 1st. diamond.

Thanks as always,

hank

NH Steve 04-24-2019 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis "Whitey" Young (Post 256423)
Hank, thanks for trying the shot. I think lll had a good idea for your 7 footer by trying it off the first diamond.
But the hit is much heavier than a 1/4 ball hit. The way I have this shot set up, I then shoot it with the outside edge of my cue lined up with the edge of the object ball. This is more than a 1/2 ball hit.

I also did the stop motion on the middle link, and the initial reaction is that the ob goes to the left while the cb is going to the right, and as the ob is coming back off the rail it barely clears the cb.

Steve, Yes, as you pointed out that the shot can be set up tougher and still go, and I have done it working with less angle than I set up. This set up gives the members a good starting point for trying the shot!

Let me clarify the above, it is easier to make this shot when it is set up harder in the side pocket. For the side pocket is a way larger opening when coming from straight across vs. a corner pocket coming in from that same angle. Plus the end cushion if contacted makes if even harder to make it in the corner pocket. I have come close to and rattled it with the ob set an 1" or so closer to the corner pocket, but as of yet have not made it.

I also suspect the type of cushion would greatly effect this shot. Whitey

Yes -- you can forget about it with the Kleber cushions :D

(at the more difficult set-ups anyway)


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