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-   -   Lag for first break (http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=15297)

Ross Keith Thompson 03-26-2019 02:20 AM

Lag for first break
 
Androd told the story about Greg Stevens winning the lag for first break against Lassiter, man was that right on.

Just a little thing lagging for the break. In any race the lag could be the most important part of the whole match, THE LAG.

Lassiter never got to shoot due to losing the LAG.

I won the LAG for 1st break against Lassiter and Ronnie Allen in the al around in 1970, if I don't win those Lags I don't win the al around.

Both my opponents had to come from far behind in a race to 11, I won both matches 11 to 8 because I had first break!

I started with 4 racks against Lassiter, I started with 5 racks against Ronnie, fortunately I played well enough to make it hold up.

Anytime you play a tough opponent or any opponent try lagging the cue ball before you play and get the speed of the table down.

If and when as a player you develop touch with your cue-ball you will advance your game to the next level.

The more you learn about the cue-ball the better a player you will become.
Test your cue ball more and see what you can do with it.

Master the cue ball and there is no limit to your game, everything will come easier.

Practice three cushion and develop power in your stroke.

practice 14 and 1 and develop touch with your cue ball!

And people win the LAG and you may just get to shoot! BAHAHAHA

lll 03-26-2019 06:52 AM

great advice keith
thanks

Mkbtank 03-26-2019 07:03 AM

Lag for first break
 
Thanks Keith. I love your posts and that excellent memory of yours!!!! Thanks for the advice too.

El Chapo 03-26-2019 07:44 AM

Lagging would probably get the award for most underpracticed, important shot.

I hope we can one day solve the opening break issue in one pocket, and make lagging unimportant, as we could probably all agree it sort of ahould be. Because at the heart of this, as we all know, winning a lag should not equate to winning a match. But that is what can easily happen in one pocket. It gives one player way too large an advantage, all other things being equal. Keeping tradk of number of balls pocketed would be a huge task, but i still feel that is the best way i can think of to "solve" who should get the right to break hill-hill.

lll 03-26-2019 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chapo (Post 254784)
Lagging would probably get the award for most underpracticed, important shot.

I hope we can one day solve the opening break issue in one pocket, and make lagging unimportant, as we could probably all agree it sort of ahould be. Because at the heart of this, as we all know, winning a lag should not equate to winning a match. But that is what can easily happen in one pocket. It gives one player way too large an advantage, all other things being equal. Keeping tradk of number of balls pocketed would be a huge task, but i still feel that is the best way i can think of to "solve" who should get the right to break hill-hill.

chapo, chapo, chapo
how can you say the lag is the most underpracticed and IMPORTANT shot
yet
hope that one day it becomes unimportant?????:confused:
also since i dont agree with your premise
"we all cant probably sort of agree it should be unimportant."
its a skill shot
and whoever shoots it better is rewarded with the break.
shouldnt we reward a player for his skill?
just askin...:D
btw i enjoy reading your contrarion way to look at things since it makes me think....:)

El Chapo 03-26-2019 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lll (Post 254797)
chapo, chapo, chapo
how can you say the lag is the most underpracticed and IMPORTANT shot
yet
hope that one day it becomes unimportant?????:confused:
also since i dont agree with your premise
"we all cant probably sort of agree it should be unimportant."
its a skill shot
and whoever shoots it better is rewarded with the break.
shouldnt we reward a player for his skill?
just askin...:D
btw i enjoy reading your contrarion way to look at things since it makes me think....:)


Lags are important because they decide matches. Isn't it clear lags should not be match deciders however? And, what about if a guy loses a lag by 2mm and then loses the match because of it. What if a guy loses a lag because there is table variation and he got the boing side of the rail. It should not be an important shot, but it is.

I do not even think it is contrarian. Nobody wants matches decided by lags.

I suppose lags have touch involved. But who do we all admire? A guy like Strickland who can spear a ball in jacked up off the end rail hill-hill, or a guy who lags good? Who does lag good anyway?? Do we even know?!

I think deciding matches on skill is a very very good thing, as you eluded to. I saw some Chinese tournaments that did some great stuff!! What if we followed suit, and actually used real skill to decide matches, instead of acting like a lag is somehow a worthy skill. Every match that goes hill hill, you stop play, and have them shoot 10 shots. Maybe the shot can be the cb is on the headspot, and the ob is on the footspot. Whoever pockets it the most times in the called pocket, wins. Seems too obvious, maybe too logical. I really don't know.

Screw hill-hill games where one guy gets the opening break in one pocket!! That concept should be banned from one pocket! Hill hill in a race to two and one guys gets the opening break!!! Are we serious? Why not reward true skill, skill that we actually admire, to be the decider in matches? We all have no idea is the answer. The Chinese seem to know.

lll 03-26-2019 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chapo (Post 254808)
Lags are important because they decide matches. Isn't it clear lags should not be match deciders however? And, what about if a guy loses a lag by 2mm and then loses the match because of it. What if a guy loses a lag because there is table variation and he got the boing side of the rail. It should not be an important shot, but it is.

I do not even think it is contrarian. Nobody wants matches decided by lags.

I suppose lags have touch involved. But who do we all admire? A guy like Strickland who can spear a ball in jacked up off the end rail hill-hill, or a guy who lags good? Who does lag good anyway?? Do we even know?!

I think deciding matches on skill is a very very good thing, as you eluded to. I saw some Chinese tournaments that did some great stuff!! What if we followed suit, and actually used real skill to decide matches, instead of acting like a lag is somehow a worthy skill. Every match that goes hill hill, you stop play, and have them shoot 10 shots. Maybe the shot can be the cb is on the headspot, and the ob is on the footspot. Whoever pockets it the most times in the called pocket, wins. Seems too obvious, maybe too logical. I really don't know.

Screw hill-hill games where one guy gets the opening break in one pocket!! That concept should be banned from one pocket! Hill hill in a race to two and one guys gets the opening break!!! Are we serious? Why not reward true skill, skill that we actually admire, to be the decider in matches? We all have no idea is the answer. The Chinese seem to know.

i guess once again we can agree to disagree...:)

El Chapo 03-26-2019 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lll (Post 254810)
i guess once again we can agree to disagree...:)

We can disagree all we want, but deciding one pocket matches by a final game, where one player obviously will have the break (widely known as advantageous), is extremely dubious.

I always bring up anaolgies, because I genuinely do not think people are seeing this stuff. How could they be?

Like in baseball one team has the home field advantage. That advantage is they get last at bat (and a supportive audience). Not an extra at bat, but just the timing of it all is known as an advantage for some reason, perhaps walk off home runs, or runs scored.

In one pocket, a player gets an extra break! Forgive me, but it just does not seem it has dawned on anybody how devistatingly poor judgement this is. I say that because nobody seems to be doing anything about it. But yeah, if baseball gave one team an extra out, or extra runner on base or something, and never did anything about it even though there were scores of easy fixes, i suppose that would make sense, somehow, somewhere. And I supoose reasonable people could have disagreements over why it was important one team got that extra advantage... It just seems clear who the correct party would be is all. Doesn't it? Really Larry, doesn't it seem clear? Drop everything, my attitude... think objectively, isn't it clear? Anybody?

BRLongArm 03-26-2019 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Chapo (Post 254815)
We can disagree all we want, but deciding one pocket matches by a final game, where one player obviously will have the break (widely known as advantageous), is extremely dubious.

I always bring up anaolgies, because I genuinely do not think people are seeing this stuff. How could they be?

Like in baseball one team has the home field advantage. That advantage is they get last at bat (and a supportive audience). Not an extra at bat, but just the timing of it all is known as an advantage for some reason, perhaps walk off home runs, or runs scored.

In one pocket, a player gets an extra break! Forgive me, but it just does not seem it has dawned on anybody how devistatingly poor judgement this is. I say that because nobody seems to be doing anything about it. But yeah, if baseball gave one team an extra out, or extra runner on base or something, and never did anything about it even though there were scores of easy fixes, i suppose that would make sense, somehow, somewhere. And I supoose reasonable people could have disagreements over why it was important one team got that extra advantage... It just seems clear who the correct party would be is all. Doesn't it? Really Larry, doesn't it seem clear? Drop everything, my attitude... think objectively, isn't it clear? Anybody?

Proposed remedy?

LSJohn 03-26-2019 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lll (Post 254797)
shouldnt we reward a player for his skill?

Sure, but he has a point. I think 9 ball has reached the point -- if it wasn't always there -- that it should be played alternate break with the 9 ball on the spot.

One pocket is different... I think the skill required in the lag and the value of break are about equal, and we already play it alternate break.

========

Boxing analogy: Whoever wins the lag -- can spit the farthest, jump the highest or has the biggest pecker -- the loser has to stand still while the winner gets 9 shots to knock him out. If he doesn't, the roles reverse.

Now that I think about it, the analogy doesn't hold up... yeah, I'd go watch that. :D


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