M. Surber vs. S. Ochoa 2009 D.C.C.

Mike has a 7-1 lead and it's his shot. What would you do?

I'd feather that 11 ball and come down and lay whitey on the foot rail, if Sylver can't cut in the pink striped ball from there...

...if Sylver could cut in the pink striped ball from there, then I'm gonna shoot to get out - by banking that 11ball cross-corner into my pocket, at pocket speed, and pinch-drawing whitey down to the head rail...I like those kind of cross-corner shots so I'm fine with shooting it and leaving Sylver long if I miss - cuz if I miss, I'm confident the 11 will be left in, or very near, the jaws of my pocket...

...and imo, if you have to shoot here, the cross-corner is a better choice than the straight back on the 3ball..because by choosing the cross-corner, in case you miss, you leave one more ball (the 3ball) out of play..and also I think you can more naturally control whitey better with the cross-corner than you can with the straight back.

- Ghost

I would go off the left side of the red ball 4 rails and try and get behind the 12.

bank the 3 ball pocket speed.

One Pocket Ghost said:

I'd feather that 11 ball and come down and lay whitey on the foot rail, if Sylver can't cut in the pink striped ball from there...

...if Sylver could cut in the pink striped ball from there, then I'm gonna shoot to get out - by banking that 11ball cross-corner into my pocket, at pocket speed, and pinch-drawing whitey down to the head rail...I like those kind of cross-corner shots so I'm fine with shooting it and leaving Sylver long if I miss - cuz if I miss, I'm confident the 11 will be left in, or very near, the jaws of my pocket...

...and imo, if you have to shoot here, the cross-corner is a better choice than the straight back on the 3ball..because by choosing the cross-corner, in case you miss, you leave one more ball (the 3ball) out of play..and also I think you can more naturally control whitey better with the cross-corner than you can with the straight back.

- Ghost

Click to expand...

The cross corner would be good, if you could stop the cue ball right there, and make him shoot the combo if you miss.

backplaying said:

I would go off the left side of the red ball 4 rails and try and get behind the 12.

Click to expand...

I'm with you BP. this shot is relatively easy to measure the angle and the speed. There is considerable margin for error with this shot and it very well may help congest a few more of the balls up table.

Tom

backplaying said:

I would go off the left side of the red ball 4 rails and try and get behind the 12.

Click to expand...

Tom Wirth said:

I'm with you BP. this shot is relatively easy to measure the angle and the speed. There is considerable margin for error with this shot and it very well may help congest a few more of the balls up table.

Tom

Click to expand...

not sure which path you are taking but is this the idea behind your shot??

lll said:

not sure which path you are taking but is this the idea behind your shot??
View attachment 8711

Click to expand...

Yep, the red one. Definitely not the yellow path.

Tom

ok here it is

backplaying said:

The cross corner would be good, if you could stop the cue ball right there, and make him shoot the combo if you miss.

Click to expand...

I like this option. You just need to get it close to get his attention.

as good as i bank, id either make the stripe or the long bank and win the game

lll said:

ok here it is
View attachment 8712

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with this shot, easy to control and leaves at best a sell out bank for your opponent.

Dr. Bill

Dear Student you know who you are, Do you remember what I told you about learning to come off of an object ball and continue two rails directly to a pocket? And how I explained you must extend that knowledge to include playing two rails into the centers of each of the six cushions? Other than playing straight across the width, or up and down the length of the table these are your primary aiming points on a pool table when moving the cue ball multiple cushions. With consistency in hitting these points of reference and solid speed control you are well on your way to playing solid positional pool.

The example shown in this diagram is ideal for the use of that knowledge.

Knowing how to reach the corner and knowing how to reach the center diamond on the long rail above the pocket gives you all the reference you need to execute this shot with complete confidence. Practice these shots every day from every position and to every pocket and every center diamond using both long rail and short rail for your starting points.

Once you feel you have that down it is time to practice making adjustments to each of these shots so as to play the cue ball off of an object ball to a point one diamond up or down from these primary targets. Learn to play each shot with varying speed and don't forget to make mental notes where the extended line takes the cue ball after contacting your target point.

By learning the primaries in stages, adjustments from primary targets will be minimal.

Do this, become consistent at it, and the next step will be to go through the same procedure directing an object ball to these points of reference. To begin this exercise it is ok to line the shots up so as to make full face hits on the OB but the goal will be to eventually be comfortable executing these shots from various angles. Again use varying speeds and follow the continued path making mental notes of the effects speed has on the shots.

When a ball plays off two consecutive side rails you must make a note of the angle the ball comes off that second rail. How does that angle change when more speed is generated? Does the ball grab the cushion and push away from the rail, or does the ball seem to drop down sharply staying fairly close to the cushion? Try to understand the dynamics at work here. It will help later.

For those of you who are advanced enough to understand all this I apologize for taking your time. There are others who frequent this site who stay silent yet take it all in, and there are the guests who have yet to become members of OnePocket.org who can benefit from practicing this lesson. Maybe some of these guests will eventually become contributing members, I hope so.
Thanks for your patience,

Tom

Cowboy Dennis said:

Mike has a 7-1 lead and it's his shot. What would you do?


View attachment 8706

View attachment 8707

Click to expand...

I like lll's shot. No need to get desperate just yet. You still have the 11 and the 15 still in your favor, maybe hiding the 11. Knowing Mike likes to play safe, thinking he likes this shot as well

Appreciate seeing the pic of my buddy Dennis. Good player and even better fella

RIP Mike. They'll find the scumbag one of these days

Bill said:

I like lll's shot. No need to get desperate just yet. You still have the 11 and the 15 still in your favor, maybe hiding the 11. Knowing Mike likes to play safe, thinking he likes this shot as well

Appreciate seeing the pic of my buddy Dennis. Good player and even better fella

RIP Mike. They'll find the scumbag one of these days

Click to expand...

Bill,

I think all of us feel the way you do about Mike. It's a shame what happened. So many people talked about what a decent guy he was.

Dennis

Mike looked at the cross-corner but didn't like it:




He then went off the 7 ball and put the cueball near Ochoa's pocket:



He left Ochoa here:

This was the first shot I thought of but wasn't sure Mike could hit that ball to play the shot. I then discounted the shot anyway because the shot had a few issues which the four rail shot did not have to deal with.

The side pocket looms large to play the shot Mike played. Hit the point of the side pocket and you sell out. Hit that OB near DO's pocket and the scratch is possible.

Playing the four rail shot avoids both of these problems and the shot as we discussed earlier is an easy shot to execute.

All that being said, Mike hit the shot with perfection and the end result is as good as you could hope for.

Nice shot Mike, be at peace.

Tom

Cowboy Dennis said:

Mike looked at the cross-corner but didn't like it:

View attachment 8713


He then went off the 7 ball and put the cueball near Ochoa's pocket:

View attachment 8714

He left Ochoa here:

View attachment 8715

Click to expand...

well ... at least he put the white ball where a few of us thought, just a different route. side point could have come into play

when you first showed Mike jacking up on the eleven, thought that wasn't Mike Surber. maybe something I would do but he hit his shot well, very well

thanks again for the pic and fond memories

tom wirth

tom wirth

Nice point, for those lurkers, including me, hanging out here...

B