Thread: Is Fats a fit?
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Old 11-01-2009, 07:55 PM
SJDinPHX's Avatar
SJDinPHX SJDinPHX is offline
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,225

Originally Posted by NH Steve
Doc, you pretty much nailed it with every line, including Danny Di's opinion (and probably George Rood's opinion, too -- although he isn't as outspoken as Danny).

Dick, You are right about Squirrel and Beenie being influential in getting George Jansco to hold a One Pocket tournament, but you have your facts wrong about RA -- he was not a factor at Johnston City until later. Cokes would have been another pre-tournament Johnston City guy, along with Taylor & probably Schriver. I do not know for sure about either of the "Reds", but I have my doubts about Jersey Red anyway.

Another thing that is a plus for Fats in my opinion is that when he came out with his own rule book, it not only included One Pocket, it featured it right on the cover! Contrary to Mike Shamos's article on the history of One Pocket, Fats' rule book was out about a year before the BCA deigned to include One Pocket in their rule book (oh, dear, it is a gambling game )

Here's another question for you. The Hustler movie opened the door, but it took Fats to turn the character into the most unforgettable name in pool. Just for example, several other players back then tried to get traction with the "Fast Eddie" moniker -- including RA. You are a big RA fan; well try explaining why a true character, (and better player than Fats) could not get near as much traction with "Fast Eddie" name as Rudy did with the "Minnesota Fats" name? Big, big difference.

I never saw Fats, but there is no question that he was a huge early and loud promoter of the game of One Pocket.

You are right, I should not have included RA as a factor in influencing Jansco with regards to 1P, at Johnston City... My error.
His domination began slightly later..He also lacked Fat's ambition, and never went to the extremes Fat's did !..Plus, RA was virtually an "unknown" in 1960-61. You are right Steve, Fat's was a very loud promoter of Fat's...One pocket just happened to be his favorite game at the time !...RA's nick-name of "Fast Eddie" (Newman's character)...was basically bestowed on him, by the pool community...I still stand by the rest of my evaluation, and who cares how many people tried to claim the character of "Fast Eddie" ?

At the time the movie came out (1961) I was considered one of the best all around player's in the SF/Oakland Bay Area.( Tevis' 'Fast Eddie's' home town was Oakland)..Even though I was considered a "dead ringer" for Paul Newman, () did RA or myself, accuse Tevis of using one of us, as a character in his movie or book ?..Uh, No.. I was just happy the movie was well accepted...I am certainly glad Newman's character, 'Fast Eddie', did not hail from Chicago...Tevis would have been tied up in court for years...Every pool player in Chicago, would have been claiming "Fast Eddie" was REALLY him ! (even the lowly [sic] 'bank pooler's )

Originally Posted by originally posted by Fred Bentivegna
I could quickly name 100 players who had talent, played good and then eventually disdained practice and never again worked hard on their craft -- and then never advanced another foot in pool. Nobody is going to tell me that Jimmy Mataya, Cole Dickson, Keith McCready, Richie Florence, etc., etc., couldn't have gone up a few more levels if they would have seriously worked on their game.

By now it should be obvious that my posts are designed to PROMOTE ME, and secondarily help players along with their game, have become fewer and fewer. It seems every time I broach a subject re strategy or knowledge,or a system, or whatever, -- stuff that the world champions at DCC have no problem taking very seriously --the very next post is not someone asking a sensible question, but it's the "Knowledge Jumper" with an asinine comment designed to jump all over the post and stop all further discourse. (He also has a habit of doing it to The Ghost, and you can count on your two arms the amount of knowledge progression posts he has made in the last year)

The "Chest Thumper" is flattering himself again !...I am not surprised, that HE would think that every post I make, I worry about what HE will think about it...HE has ALWAYS been severely lacking in the capacity to realize when I am joking, and when I'm not..I am only 'anti practice' for MYSELF..not for all the people he "think's" hang on HIS every word..That is why I always include the obvious reference to my drinking, which not surprisingly, sails right over his head.

Of course I know there are thousands of player's that NEED a regular practice regimen to learn, or improve..(HE is a perfect example )...However, the player's HE named, and hundreds more I could name..Disdain practicing, as something they prefer NOT to do..(including moi) All those people he named became quite proficient without "making their eye's bleed practicing"..I think the "Chest Thumper" might be perturbed (ie. jealous) that they "didn't need to practice", in order to eclipse him in pool skills. (you obviously prefer 'insult's, to a productive discourse, so I shall accomodate you)

Being as the "CT" has chosen to escalate our war of words..let me just say this. He might be the favorite to win a popularity contest, against me.(on this forum).. But that might all change, should I divulge any of the MANY, MANY, supportive PM's I have recieved... Of course, being the master of restraint that I am, I would never do that..Even though HE has chosen to dig up every possible rumor, (think "Claim Jumper", Heist Man, Dumper, Liar, etc.) or any other shortcoming, my good friends know to be untrue..! (which is also an insult, to our many mutual friends)

Granted, he has been clever enough to use his 2 or 3) close friends, (or his roomate) to introduce these unfounded rumors,..Then HE jumps in, as an innocent commentater on the subject...So you see "CT" it is YOU who have created a 'thorn in your side', by letting your epidermally challenged, self-engrandized braggadocious NOT be the uncontested, unbridled source of wisdom you WERE, prior to my 'very active' defense mechanism..So live with it !..

PS..Do not include the Ghost, as one of MY casualties, (if he is) it has absolutely NOTHING to do with you..Our differences were handled via PM..(like ours could have been)...However, I will say this..His only reason for posting less may be the SAME as yours..Dare I say it, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA, NIL, NO, FRIGGIN' SKIN AT ALL !...

PS..I consider Tevis's works, to be a composite of all his experiences in the pool world. I never knew the man, but why is no one giving him his due. The bottom line is, Tevis created a masterpiece, no matter how he arrived at it. Who can deny the impact it had on a struggling pool environment ?..I would venture to say, that were it not for "The Hustler" and "TCOM"...One or AZB...may not even exist !..That is the thrust of my diatribe. It is NOT meant to disparage Fat's or RA,or is simply an unalterable fact.

You and Fred, are arguing semantics...I am stating what is factual !..Bottom line is.. Fat's did NOT make Tevis,..Tevis gave a fading old pool hustler, a new lease on life !...Those are George, and Joanne Jansco's words..not mine, I am just the messenger !

Last edited by SJDinPHX; 10-25-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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