Time and opinions on the use of it.

Jeff sparks · Nov 30, 2015

Well, I'm sure this topic has been discussed and cussed to no end on this and other forums in the past, but I'd like to know if there is a solution to the inadvertent amount of time that's allowed to a player in the game of one pocket?

I have to say that upon occasion, I do take over a minute to finalize my shot selection, but it's rare when I do, it's gotta be a tough situation before I take that long to select a shot & shoot.

Are there no rules governing the amount of time one can use to select and shoot a shot?

I'm not at all advocating or campaigning for a shot clock, but it seems to me that certain people who play the game have no regard for the other player, they seem to be oblivious to the fact that they use an extreme amount of time to decide and shoot every single shot.

Other than refusing to play, or quitting, is there a gentlemanly way to ask the player to speed up without offending him? Am I alone in this camp, am I out of line with this thinking, how do faster players handle playing with extremely slow players? Just don't play them?

I'm not trying to offend anyone's style of play, but IMO the game should be enjoyable for both people to play, and there should be a rule governing slow play. It's not allowed in golf, either in a tournament, or on a public course. On the pro circuit, it's a penalty after a warning, and on a public course the Marshall will ask you to speed up your play.

It akin to playing in lower stakes poker games where the players are kids for the most part who have played internet poker and watched countless hours of WSOP footage, they pattern their style of play after their heros in the WSOP, they study, study, study, think tank, think tank, look at their opponent, study, study, then fold! EVERY TIME! It's like they are on TV the way they take so much time to act on a hand that is an automatic fold.

I've watched countless hours of the best one pocket players in world over the last few months, trying to learn at a fast pace, some are so slow to select a shot I actually have to rewind the tape when I wake up! Alex & Cory are in one camp, while Frost & Chohan are in another, I'll let you guess which is which.

Point being, the game should be fun to play for everyone, and the way the rules are now, it's not! There should be a ruling made by a governing body and it should be fair to everyone. IMO it would make the game a whole lot more enjoyable to play, for everyone.

I know, never happen, Right?

bstroud · Nov 30, 2015

Jeff,

It all depends on the player.
Some see many more possibilities than others.
For some it takes more time to make a decision.

It's Human nature.

Bill S.

jrhendy · Nov 30, 2015

I am a fairly fast player and unless I am playing in a tournament, I am gambling. I think you have to train yourself to accept whatever style of play your opponent chooses. They can do what they want when they are betting their $$.

I firmly believe slow play is a handicap to most of the slow players and makes it harder for them to get into the flow of the game when they are analyzing every possibility.

You can't change em, just don't join em.

darmoose · Nov 30, 2015

Jeff

While I feel your pain, I am sure that short of a shot clock there is no solution to your problem. First off, compared to any other game on a pool table, one pocket has fast become the gambling game of choice. Matches that I have watched are not about enjoyment, they are about taking the cash or winning. I think if enjoyment is your goal, you're gonna have to stop gambling or play something like eightball or straight pool.

What makes one pocket special is that there are so many ways to match up and there are several ways to concur an opponent. Two players can play one pocket EVEN in spite of the fact that one of them is a far better shooter than the other, and the best shooter don't have to win. Moving and safe play, which requires good decision making and shot selection can be very powerful. But, as you can see from the WWYD's, there can be many options to consider.

While I certainly do not advocate slow play, I believe in a gambling situation, it is naïve to think you can demand an opponent play your game, and attempting to do so can only hurt you. Your complaints to your opponent are seen by him as only a strategy to help you and hurt his chances, just like you think he is deliberately trying to get under your skin.

Your choices are play only speedy players, play eightball, or just sit back relax and enjoy.

An interesting question regarding your dilemma is this. Do you want to shoot more shots in a shorter period of time, or are you interested in getting more games completed per hour?

androd · Nov 30, 2015

jrhendy said:
I am a fairly fast player and unless I am playing in a tournament, I am gambling. I think you have to train yourself to accept whatever style of play your opponent chooses. They can do what they want when they are betting their $$.

I firmly believe slow play is a handicap to most of the slow players and makes it harder for them to get into the flow of the game when they are analyzing every possibility.

You can't change em, just don't join em.

Well said, as I've gotten older I tolerate them better but still not well.

With younger players who don't really know the game, I can understand it.
Some older players do it on purpose, some are just slow witted.

For many years all players from Nawlings played painfully slow because they patterned themselves after the best player there, Earl Hiesler. A very good player

and slower than Buddy Hall. :frus

If I new they were from there, no game !

jrhendy · Nov 30, 2015

androd said:
Well said, as I've gotten older I tolerate them better but still not well.

With younger players who don't really know the game, I can understand it.
Some older players do it on purpose, some are just slow witted.

For many years all players from Nawlings played painfully slow because they patterned themselves after the best player there, Earl Hiesler. A very good player and slower than Buddy Hall. :frus

If I new they were from there, no game !

There are some slow players I would rather not play. A good player who plays slow will make you play slower because of the traps they put you in. You have to make the bet right to put up with it.

Artie comes to mind when I think of a very slow player who is also a good player. I can only imagine how good he was when he could also pocket balls well to go along with his defensive skills. Artie might take a few minutes on a shot and of course when you are in the game, it even seems longer. The last match we played was a race to seven that lasted over 16 hours. One of the spectators said 'I would rather get needles in my eyes than watch that again'.

Ghost is not a fast player but not agonizingly slow like Artie, and he does come up with some shots others don't see

and it works well for him.

Maybe it is a Chicago thing.:sorry

1pwannabe · Nov 30, 2015

It's a mindset, basically it goes like this, "if you're in a hurry, don't play 1P".

Jeff sparks said:
Well, I'm sure this topic has been discussed and cussed to no end on this and other forums in the past, but I'd like to know if there is a solution to the inadvertent amount of time that's allowed to a player in the game of one pocket?

I have to say that upon occasion, I do take over a minute to finalize my shot selection, but it's rare when I do, it's gotta be a tough situation before I take that long to select a shot & shoot.

Are there no rules governing the amount of time one can use to select and shoot a shot?

I'm not at all advocating or campaigning for a shot clock, but it seems to me that certain people who play the game have no regard for the other player, they seem to be oblivious to the fact that they use an extreme amount of time to decide and shoot every single shot.

Other than refusing to play, or quitting, is there a gentlemanly way to ask the player to speed up without offending him? Am I alone in this camp, am I out of line with this thinking, how do faster players handle playing with extremely slow players? Just don't play them?

I'm not trying to offend anyone's style of play, but IMO the game should be enjoyable for both people to play, and there should be a rule governing slow play. It's not allowed in golf, either in a tournament, or on a public course. On the pro circuit, it's a penalty after a warning, and on a public course the Marshall will ask you to speed up your play.

It akin to playing in lower stakes poker games where the players are kids for the most part who have played internet poker and watched countless hours of WSOP footage, they pattern their style of play after their heros in the WSOP, they study, study, study, think tank, think tank, look at their opponent, study, study, then fold! EVERY TIME! It's like they are on TV the way they take so much time to act on a hand that is an automatic fold.

I've watched countless hours of the best one pocket players in world over the last few months, trying to learn at a fast pace, some are so slow to select a shot I actually have to rewind the tape when I wake up! Alex & Cory are in one camp, while Frost & Chohan are in another, I'll let you guess which is which.

Point being, the game should be fun to play for everyone, and the way the rules are now, it's not! There should be a ruling made by a governing body and it should be fair to everyone. IMO it would make the game a whole lot more enjoyable to play, for everyone.

I know, never happen, Right?

12squared · Nov 30, 2015

Other than a shot clock, the best idea I had read in another forum was to possibly use like they do in chess, a total amount of time per game (or certain amount of moves) where you can manage the time allowed. The faster you shoot the more time/shots you get, and it banks time for those situations where more time is required.

Something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_control

Not sure how to put this in practice in a game but I always thought it was a good idea. I like John's answer though.

Dave

baby huey · Nov 30, 2015

I am not a fan of shot clocks nor other penalties for what some consider "slow play." Now a days, balls get spotted that go behind the line and this really speeds up the game and some matches go to two on the winners side and one on the losers side. That by itself will change how the game is played. If you are gambling you just have to deal with it and either keep playing the methodical player or not play him. You can complain all you want but if someone is betting his cash its pretty hard to also tell him how fast to play.

beatle · Nov 30, 2015

the slower you play the worse the game you will get from me as i work by the hour. make me wait, i make you pay.

besides most of those that take all day dont go off for much so why bother.

if i am playing someone and get the stalls, i just tell them its the last game unless you speed it up. i can do other things in life than sit and wait on someone.

if you are playing say for 100 a game and have a 20 % edge and he is taking an hour to play a game you are only making 20 bucks and hour. i would rather go drive a bus or something for that.

Frank Almanza · Nov 30, 2015

jerry matchin said:
I am not a fan of shot clocks nor other penalties for what some consider "slow play." Now a days, balls get spotted that go behind the line and this really speeds up the game and some matches go to two on the winners side and one on the losers side. That by itself will change how the game is played. If you are gambling you just have to deal with it and either keep playing the methodical player or not play him. You can complain all you want but if someone is betting his cash its pretty hard to also tell him how fast to play.

Nice post Jerry. You have options. Deal with it, quit, or raise the stakes.
Usually the one that complains is the one that is losing.

Island Drive · Nov 30, 2015

If you guyz ever heard of Henry Grannis, he fed off your misery as he iced your mental game. After years of his BS ''I walked away during play.

This past weekend I played a Very similar player, but like JH said some are just that way and NOT intentional, but when it's deliberate here's the key. Don't complain just make sure the TD or someone watches your opponent shooting and turn your back to the table and watch TV or walk over and talk to your buddies ''after EVERY shot'' so he knows what's coming next. To a point where he has to tell you it's your shot, that WILL bug em., if it's a person that you trust and is honest don't even get a spotter.... He could easily get irritated enough to say something too you, now ya got em, matched up to your next ''one liner''. Tell em exactly how you feel doing business this way, and he'll either change, or you can punish your self again, or you can just say nicely ''last game'' and wait for him to make the next Verbal move. or NEVER, but at least you got the last word.

petie · Nov 30, 2015

The tale of three players

The tale of three players

I know at least 3 slow players (actually quite a few more than 3). Wayne is a guy I have played almost daily off and on for 3 years or so. He has always been a real good shooter but didn't know or appreciate One Pocket. When we first started playing, he shot faster but that was because he really didn't know how to play the game and he was just trying to make balls. Now he knows how to play and he appreciates what the risk or benefit of doing this or that is. He now plays much slower. I don't mind at all because he gives me a better game now.

Eddy is a slow player. Actually, his nickname is Slow Eddie. Everybody hates to play him because it is excruciating. He really stalls but I don't think its intentional. I think he is just slow.

Now Bill pisses me off. He stalls on purpose to give himself an edge. He bunts and bunts after llloooonnnnngggg thought but what really pisses me off is that he walks away from the game many times during every game to take a whiz or get a coffee or just watch the football game on TV. Now this pisses me off.

sheldon · Nov 30, 2015

I don't think there's any good solution, especially gambling.
I'll never be world champion, or make my living playing pool, so the game is more about having fun, and winning some pocket money. Playing someone who is super-slow is just not fun. Even if someone is not really slow, but they are too methodical, it's just BORING. There are plenty of people out there that are actually FUN to play, and I don't waste my time on the robots or bad attitudes unless it's going to pay off big.

jrhendy · Nov 30, 2015

Island Drive said:
If you guyz ever heard of Henry Grannis, he fed off your misery as he iced your mental game. After years of his BS ''I walked away during play.

This past weekend I played a Very similar player, but like JH said some are just that way and NOT intentional, but when it's deliberate here's the key. Don't complain just make sure the TD or someone watches your opponent shooting and turn your back to the table and watch TV or walk over and talk to your buddies ''after EVERY shot'' so he knows what's coming next. To a point where he has to tell you it's your shot, that WILL bug em., if it's a person that you trust and is honest don't even get a spotter.... He could easily get irritated enough to say something too you, now ya got em, matched up to your next ''one liner''. Tell em exactly how you feel doing business this way, and he'll either change, or you can punish your self again, or you can just say nicely ''last game'' and wait for him to make the next Verbal move. or NEVER, but at least you got the last word.

I remember Henry. When Poker Paul & I were at Colfax Billiards in Denver, Frank said he would stake me and to go ask Henry to play for $50 a game. He said no, as Frank knew he would. Frank told me he was a better player and would rob me but he would never play a stranger for more than a few bucks.

Island Drive · Nov 30, 2015

jrhendy said:
I remember Henry. When Poker Paul & I were at Colfax Billiards in Denver, Frank said he would stake me and to go ask Henry to play for $50 a game. He said no, as Frank knew he would. Frank told me he was a better player and would rob me but he would never play a stranger for more than a few bucks.

Denver has always been a tough place to make a score, it's the best it's been in a long time, but it's still asking for a ball ALWAYS. The mindset of the Denver players/Colorado Springs/Pueblo players is different, and always has been. Years ago, there was more action in Pueblo, with the Italians, and the Mexican's from the familias' of the 1800's now 3rd and fourth generation. This is the town that built the rails for the western US, and now is rebooting and being reborn, action Jackson is still the word there. The Springs has always been like Grady and all the suckers from the air force, and fort carson army, and the alcholics. Denver has always been a city that want's a ball or the 8 in rotation, or something, or a passer thru might never get played. They are still that way, and are now better than the springs, and the players in Pueblo love action, it's in their DNA, from the old horse track days of the front range.

LSJohn · Nov 30, 2015

Island Drive said:
Denver has always been a tough place to make a score, it's the best it's been in a long time, but it's still asking for a ball ALWAYS. The mindset of the Denver players/Colorado Springs/Pueblo players is different, and always has been. Years ago, there was more action in Pueblo, with the Italians, and the Mexican's from the familias' of the 1800's now 3rd and fourth generation. This is the town that built the rails for the western US, and now is rebooting and being reborn, action Jackson is still the word there. The Springs has always been like Grady and all the suckers from the air force, and fort carson army, and the alcholics. Denver has always been a city that want's a ball or the 8 in rotation, or something, or a passer thru might never get played. They are still that way, and are now better than the springs, and the players in Pueblo love action, it's in their DNA, from the old horse track days of the front range.

Mark Haddad is in Denver, isn't he?

I don't know how he would match up with the big boyz, but I've seen him play very well. (And his girl/wife plays pretty well too, compared to typical good amateur lady competition.)

Time and opinions on the use of it.

Jeff sparks

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bstroud

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jrhendy

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darmoose

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androd

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jrhendy

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1pwannabe

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12squared

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baby huey

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beatle

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Frank Almanza

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Island Drive

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petie

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sheldon

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jrhendy

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Island Drive

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LSJohn

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