Laying down a trap

petie

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Oct 2, 2005
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Citrus Springs, FL
Laying down a trap is one of the biggest parts of the game of One Pocket. It has been written about in books such as "One Pocket-a Game of Controlled Aggression" by Tom Worth but has not been discussed very much on this forum. Since our forum is made up of some of the most experienced One Pocket players in the world, I think it would be interesting to hear their thoughts on this subject. Players of any level should chime in with questions and opinions and experience.

To prove that you don't need to be a great player to participate in this discussion, I will offer an opening statement/opinion of my own: Laying down traps wins games. It is like playing tennis and working your opponent into the corner. It forces errors. Skill at laying down traps might be the biggest difference in success in One Pocket. Why don't Shane and Dennis and the worlds straightest shooters have a lock in One Pocket competition? Is one of the reasons because they rely too much on running balls and not enough on strategy? I find that some players are succors for certain traps. They are predictable. These are the most fun.
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
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2,883
I cant agree with you more on this topic Pete. Pool players are always looking for the shot to their hole. They cant see forest from the trees. They want to win the battle and forget about the war.
Poker players set traps to not only the first level but the 5th and 6th. If he does this then Ill do that because he will do this and on and on.
The art is inducement. How to induce your opponent because of his flaws into shooting the option you want him to.
Setting a trap without your opponent noticing it is a trap.
To do this you have to understand not only the techniques of the game but human psychology which makes one pocket the champion of all games.
 

wgcp

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Dec 13, 2004
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long beach, mississippi
traps

traps

When a player gets a tough shot or is put in a terrible position his mind set changes. You can see it in how long he takes to make his mind up.

I like to play against shooters. I know that eventually they will miss one of those "harrigans", and then doubt will creep in their mind. Especially if they are constantly left behind a ball, frozen to the stack, or sitting on the rail 9 foot away...

I constantly look for the worse place to put the cue for my opponent, I look at that first, see if I have any offense to shoot, but I am working the table to put them there if at all possible...

But I will say this, when I am trapped, I throw odds out the window, believe in the shot that I will attempt, and try and give it 100% of my attention...

B
 

Skin

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Sep 11, 2008
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2,295
This is a good topic, petie.

Its not about giving him a shot. Its about controlling the whole game. And maneuvering him into potting him in a position. Where he has to make a mistake. And he cant play safe. Pu thing a person in this position. Is like having won the game already.

Because once you get your opponent in this position. You keep him locked up. Where he cant get out. And its not about running 8 and out. Its about making as many balls as you can from that position. Without gambling on your shot breaking up the balls. And trapping yourself. And you let your opponent get out of the trap. And can reverse the trap and but you in there.

Its playing the complete game without taking risks chances or hard shots. You make as many balls as you can. And then keep your opponent locked up. The good shooters and player. Gamble and take chances breaking up balls or shooting balls into another ball. But that will take away from you having complete control. And where you leave the object ball. And cue ball.

Leaving the cue ball just one inch from were you want the cue ball to be. Can loose you the entire game. And there are complete no no's were you never want to leave the cue ball. If you plan and figure out ahead of time. You can force your opponent to shot what you want him to shot. Because he has no other shot or safe place to but the cue ball. And if he shoots your shot. He will fall deeper into your trap.

You can improve your game a lot by thinking and learning. Especially if you have reached your shooting potential. The only way you can keep improving is through knowledge.

Everybody practices shooting banking position Accuracy stroke fundamentals. People do this there whole life and never learn how to play. Knowing how to play and think. Makes the game way more fun and exciting. Forget the old ways just practicing shooting braking the balls. playing position and fundamentals. People give lessons. And spend two life times. On fundamentals. Most champions have different fundamentals stroke and stances.

My advice and I can prove this. Is learn how to play what to do what to shoot. Figuring out before you shot what you want to do. And whats a good position to leave your opponent. If there is one person on this site. That is a av arg shooter. That cannot improve his game. And has been playing this same way for 3 or 5 years. I will do this just to prove what I am saying is correct and the truth. And we will see after one week if this player improves or not.

I can tell you one thing whoever this person is. Your game will not improve. Looking to shoot better and improving your fundamentals. Knowledge is how you improve to be number one.

I can make a great shooter with knowledge the greatest player of them all. People do not practice learning the game. We all no what people practice. If you do not have the ability. You cannot be a champion with the knowledge. You must have the ability. And you can learn the knowledge and become the worlds greatest. It does not work the other way around. Without ability the knowledge can not make you a champion.

The knowledge will make you way better. Than you would be without the knowledge. And with learning and knowledge you can keep improving. Because your knowledge. will improve your game and mistakes.

What I am w righting you will not her from another person. Because they never played this way. Or learned how to improve your game through knowledge. Even the greatest players don't have these answers. And I have never meet a player. Who thinks and plays this way. I am giving this to the world and I hope that it will improve and help every body's game and thinking. What I am saying and giving to everyone. Is something you cannot get or buy anywhere. Keep improving you knowledge and watch your game improve with your knowledge.

I hope one day some great champion comes along and says yes this is how I became a champion. By improving my game through knowledge. Not just shooting and fundamentals. You will make yourself and your game stronger and more powerful. With knowledge. Knowledge will improve your confidence and your self esteem.

Go and learn the game you love. AB Middler
 

beatle

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Jun 21, 2009
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4 basic things to know.

1. what shots does he shoot well. then dont leave him those kind of shots

2. what shots he doesnt hit well. then leave him those

3. what shots he shoots that arent high % for him. i repeat for him not you shooting. leave him those when you cant find a better option

4. what % your chances of making each shot are so you can judge what to shoot. and what are the shots you want to leave him, comparing his ability to yours.

too many players leave where they dont want to be, rather than where he doesnt want to be.
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
Messages
2,883
4 basic things to know.

1. what shots does he shoot well. then dont leave him those kind of shots

2. what shots he doesnt hit well. then leave him those

3. what shots he shoots that arent high % for him. i repeat for him not you shooting. leave him those when you cant find a better option

4. what % your chances of making each shot are so you can judge what to shoot. and what are the shots you want to leave him, comparing his ability to yours.

too many players leave where they dont want to be, rather than where he doesnt want to be.

Let me just add one more if I may. What shot does your opponent THINK he is good at but really not.
Thus you hear your opponents say "I really played bad", after a loss, thinking they can make the shots that they cant. They didnt really play bad they just overestimate their game.
 

androd

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Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,718
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New Braunfels tx.
I really wish I understood this.
When it's my shot I decide whether to shoot at my pocket or play safe.
If safe, I try to put the CB in the worst place possible.
There's never 2 or 3 shots ahead, It seems inane to think you'll know what your opponent will do, although granted sometime he won't have many options.
Just the same you'll often be surprised, maybe pleasantly.
This is probably why I have more problems with some than others, maybe they're are trapping me 2 or 3 shots ahead and I'm to stupid to notice.
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
Messages
2,883
I really wish I understood this.
When it's my shot I decide whether to shoot at my pocket or play safe.
If safe, I try to put the CB in the worst place possible.
There's never 2 or 3 shots ahead, It seems inane to think you'll know what your opponent will do, although granted sometime he won't have many options.
Just the same you'll often be surprised, maybe pleasantly.
This is probably why I have more problems with some than others, maybe they're are trapping me 2 or 3 shots ahead and I'm to stupid to notice.

I think of this in this way. How will my opponent respond if I do this. What are his options. What can I predict he will do and will he surprise me if he does the opposite of what I think he will do. Then what are my options.
Chess players and poker players write volumes about this.
Pool players are still mired in the physics of ball to ball response and stroke mechanics.
They dont analyze their opponents weaknesses and their strengths and only do so by feel. Some feel better than others.
But feel causes one to be illusionary about ones own strengths and weaknesses.
The only way to defeat a tough opponent is to keep 2 or 3 steps ahead of him.
Think. Use your brain. Try to imagine the future. Try to induce.
 

crabbcatjohn

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Nov 30, 2014
Messages
4,997
From
Benton, Ky.
I was playing a player the other day who plays about even with me. I know his game well. Every single trap i put him in he made the hard shot. Beat me 6 games in a row and i had to quit. So was he in the trap or me?
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
Messages
2,883
I was playing a player the other day who plays about even with me. I know his game well. Every single trap i put him in he made the hard shot. Beat me 6 games in a row and i had to quit. So was he in the trap or me?

John Im not trying to be rude, but maybe you do not really "know his game well". Maybe you underestimated him. If that is the case you trapped yourself.

Go back and review. Take notes on your mistakes. Take notes on the shots he made. Review in your mind and dont make that mistake again.
In poker its call reviewing your hand history. Review your game and shots you selected. There must have been something you could have done better.

In cases like these. I like to use a phrase that Im paraphrasing from a friend.

Leave him NOTHING!-Freddie the Beard on Chicago style.
 

Frank Almanza

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Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,569
From
Upland, California
One of the best situations to build a trap is when your opponent has a dead ball in the stack but very well concealed. After a couple of test shots to see if he knows that it's there I will play as if I don't know it's there.

This will give me the opportunity to build the trap because he will not respond to my shots as he should. You can tell he is being carful not to disturb that dead ball. He is waiting for the cue ball to lay right before jumping on that shot.
As this develops, he's unaware of the trap that I'm weaving.
 

petie

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Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
From
Citrus Springs, FL
I cant agree with you more on this topic Pete. Pool players are always looking for the shot to their hole. They cant see forest from the trees. They want to win the battle and forget about the war.
Poker players set traps to not only the first level but the 5th and 6th. If he does this then Ill do that because he will do this and on and on.
The art is inducement. How to induce your opponent because of his flaws into shooting the option you want him to.
Setting a trap without your opponent noticing it is a trap.
To do this you have to understand not only the techniques of the game but human psychology which makes one pocket the champion of all games.

You're way ahead of me, Keone.
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
From
Citrus Springs, FL
When a player gets a tough shot or is put in a terrible position his mind set changes. You can see it in how long he takes to make his mind up.

I like to play against shooters. I know that eventually they will miss one of those "harrigans", and then doubt will creep in their mind. Especially if they are constantly left behind a ball, frozen to the stack, or sitting on the rail 9 foot away...

I constantly look for the worse place to put the cue for my opponent, I look at that first, see if I have any offense to shoot, but I am working the table to put them there if at all possible...

But I will say this, when I am trapped, I throw odds out the window, believe in the shot that I will attempt, and try and give it 100% of my attention...

B

I know what you mean, Colonel Bille Sir. I love it when they shoot at their hole all the time. It gives me confidence because it is the lazy, oversimplification of the game. Any idiot can take wingers at their hole. You have to know something to play good One Pocket. I probably shouldn't say this but I believe no less a champion than Buddy Hall himself lost the key game, for him, to James Christopher in the Super Senior tournament by taking the wrong shot. This might be more germane in a future thread I am thinking of starting about how to run out.

The best thing I know about how to get out of a trap is to not loose your head.
 

wgcp

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Joined
Dec 13, 2004
Messages
1,782
From
long beach, mississippi
run out

run out

Tom Wirths book has an excellent section on what to think about when running balls.

Also Dr. Bills video on one pocket explains it a little...

Wish I could play against Danny D. every day for about 6 months...He has an excellent straight pool knowledge and explains it well...

B
 

petie

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Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
From
Citrus Springs, FL
4 basic things to know.

1. what shots does he shoot well. then dont leave him those kind of shots

2. what shots he doesnt hit well. then leave him those

3. what shots he shoots that arent high % for him. i repeat for him not you shooting. leave him those when you cant find a better option

4. what % your chances of making each shot are so you can judge what to shoot. and what are the shots you want to leave him, comparing his ability to yours.

too many players leave where they dont want to be, rather than where he doesnt want to be.

Somebody, maybe you, Beatle, should write "Ten Commandments of One Pocket". "Thou shalt know thy opponent," would surely be one of them.
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
From
Citrus Springs, FL
I really wish I understood this.
When it's my shot I decide whether to shoot at my pocket or play safe.
If safe, I try to put the CB in the worst place possible.
There's never 2 or 3 shots ahead, It seems inane to think you'll know what your opponent will do, although granted sometime he won't have many options.
Just the same you'll often be surprised, maybe pleasantly.
This is probably why I have more problems with some than others, maybe they're are trapping me 2 or 3 shots ahead and I'm to stupid to notice.

Now that's funny. I do believe there is something to be said for playing shot for shot sort of like riding a bull jump for jump. I like Artie's way of sort of tightening the noose.
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
From
Citrus Springs, FL
One of the best situations to build a trap is when your opponent has a dead ball in the stack but very well concealed. After a couple of test shots to see if he knows that it's there I will play as if I don't know it's there.

This will give me the opportunity to build the trap because he will not respond to my shots as he should. You can tell he is being carful not to disturb that dead ball. He is waiting for the cue ball to lay right before jumping on that shot.
As this develops, he's unaware of the trap that I'm weaving.

Pretty sneaky of you, Frank.
 

keoneyo

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
2,883
Tom Wirths book has an excellent section on what to think about when running balls.

Also Dr. Bills video on one pocket explains it a little...

Wish I could play against Danny D. every day for about 6 months...He has an excellent straight pool knowledge and explains it well...

B

This is so true about Danny. He taught me always to respect the rack. To look at it and see what the trend of ball movement is going on. To use the stack as your friend.
I often find one pocket players looking at the shot to their hole instead of looking at the stack. Often times if they make their shot they have no other and must play a safe off that stack but if they miss their shot the keen eyed shooter will find a way to shoot that ball into the proper side of the stack and send all the balls to their side of the table leaving the hole shooter in a dire trap.
 
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