2009 One Pocket HOF Call for Nominations

fred bentivegna

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My final, final word on it

My final, final word on it

Here are a couple of emails I sent out to people asking my opinion on the Concept of One Pocket a few years back.

Check out Grady's Baton Rouge Legends tournament in the 90's on Accu-stats. Buddy is playing Marco Marques in the semi or quarter finals. Ronnie, Incardona and I are doing the commentary. Somewhere in the course of the match Ronnie remarks, "These guys just don't know the game like you and I do." It was one of the greatest compliments I ever received, since Ronnie extended few kudos to anyone regarding One pocket expertise. Buddy's One pocket weaknesses show up quickly, and are pointed out by Ronnie, Billy and I throughout that match (which he lost by the way).

What probably confuses people about Buddy's One pocket game is that everything he chooses to shoot, he executes perfectly. That in itself is good enough to beat almost anybody, especially in short sets like tournament matches. However, stretched out into a long session, having to do everything the hard way would eventually bear bitter fruit.

If you think I'm being sacrilegious about Buddy, the guy Hubert Cokes used to call "The Little Gorilla," Nicky Varner, who can also beat just about everybody, could use a One pocket Indian guide also.
Opinionatingly yours,
The Beard

OK, I'll put a qualifier on it. I am going to forfeit the last 15 years, opinion wise, since I have not been really mainstream for that period. The times I mentioned at North Shore Billiards occurred in the 80s when Buddy was the best Nine-baller on earth. Also, I never said anything about accuracy, touch, or skill, that has little to do with One pocket knowledge.

One last thing, I have spent time in the Accu-stats booth with Cecil Buddy Hall critiquing One pocket matches. And another last thing, Cecil and I are blood-brothers, and have been close friends for years. I can talk as bad as I want about his One pocket game and believe me, he wont get the slightest bit mad at me. He knows I talk bad about everybody. If you watch the Fusco/Rempe match you will see me rip Rempe unmercifully and we are still pals. While he won't pick up my lunch check (they are still looking for someone he's done it for), he will allow me to split it.

the Beard
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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fred bentivegna said:
Here are a couple of emails I sent out to people asking my opinion on the Concept of One Pocket a few years back.

Check out Grady's Baton Rouge Legends tournament in the 90's on Accu-stats. Buddy is playing Marco Marques in the semi or quarter finals. Ronnie, Incardona and I are doing the commentary. Somewhere in the course of the match Ronnie remarks, "These guys just don't know the game like you and I do." It was one of the greatest compliments I ever received, since Ronnie extended few kudos to anyone regarding One pocket expertise. Buddy's One pocket weaknesses show up quickly, and are pointed out by Ronnie, Billy and I throughout that match (which he lost by the way).

What probably confuses people about Buddy's One pocket game is that everything he chooses to shoot, he executes perfectly. That in itself is good enough to beat almost anybody, especially in short sets like tournament matches. However, stretched out into a long session, having to do everything the hard way would eventually bear bitter fruit.

If you think I'm being sacrilegious about Buddy, the guy Hubert Cokes used to call "The Little Gorilla," Nicky Varner, who can also beat just about everybody, could use a One pocket Indian guide also.
Opinionatingly yours,
The Beard

OK, I'll put a qualifier on it. I am going to forfeit the last 15 years, opinion wise, since I have not been really mainstream for that period. The times I mentioned at North Shore Billiards occurred in the 80s when Buddy was the best Nine-baller on earth. Also, I never said anything about accuracy, touch, or skill, that has little to do with One pocket knowledge.

One last thing, I have spent time in the Accu-stats booth with Cecil Buddy Hall critiquing One pocket matches. And another last thing, Cecil and I are blood-brothers, and have been close friends for years. I can talk as bad as I want about his One pocket game and believe me, he wont get the slightest bit mad at me. He knows I talk bad about everybody. If you watch the Fusco/Rempe match you will see me rip Rempe unmercifully and we are still pals. While he won't pick up my lunch check (they are still looking for someone he's done it for), he will allow me to split it.

the Beard
Her is a good one Freddy If Eferine and me played a partners game against Ronnie and Bugs or Ronnie and Keely or Ronnie and Taylor who do you think will win? And I think this is very interesting.
 

gulfportdoc

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fred bentivegna said:
What probably confuses people about Buddy's One pocket game is that everything he chooses to shoot, he executes perfectly. That in itself is good enough to beat almost anybody, especially in short sets like tournament matches. However, stretched out into a long session, having to do everything the hard way would eventually bear bitter fruit.
Beard-- Couldn't a similar statement be made about Efren's 1P game? (Not to offend those who have bestowed Divinity upon Reyes)

Doc
 

SJDinPHX

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fred bentivegna said:
Here are a couple of emails I sent out to people asking my opinion on the Concept of One Pocket a few years back.

Check out Grady's Baton Rouge Legends tournament in the 90's on Accu-stats. Buddy is playing Marco Marques in the semi or quarter finals. Ronnie, Incardona and I are doing the commentary. Somewhere in the course of the match Ronnie remarks, "These guys just don't know the game like you and I do." It was one of the greatest compliments I ever received, since Ronnie extended few kudos to anyone regarding One pocket expertise. Buddy's One pocket weaknesses show up quickly, and are pointed out by Ronnie, Billy and I throughout that match (which he lost by the way).

What probably confuses people about Buddy's One pocket game is that everything he chooses to shoot, he executes perfectly. That in itself is good enough to beat almost anybody, especially in short sets like tournament matches. However, stretched out into a long session, having to do everything the hard way would eventually bear bitter fruit.

If you think I'm being sacrilegious about Buddy, the guy Hubert Cokes used to call "The Little Gorilla," Nicky Varner, who can also beat just about everybody, could use a One pocket Indian guide also.
Opinionatingly yours,
The Beard

OK, I'll put a qualifier on it. I am going to forfeit the last 15 years, opinion wise, since I have not been really mainstream for that period. The times I mentioned at North Shore Billiards occurred in the 80s when Buddy was the best Nine-baller on earth. Also, I never said anything about accuracy, touch, or skill, that has little to do with One pocket knowledge.

One last thing, I have spent time in the Accu-stats booth with Cecil Buddy Hall critiquing One pocket matches. And another last thing, Cecil and I are blood-brothers, and have been close friends for years. I can talk as bad as I want about his One pocket game and believe me, he wont get the slightest bit mad at me. He knows I talk bad about everybody. If you watch the Fusco/Rempe match you will see me rip Rempe unmercifully and we are still pals. While he won't pick up my lunch check (they are still looking for someone he's done it for), he will allow me to split it.

the Beard

Freddy,

The mind is a terrible thing to waste...you need to start prefacing your bold statements with... "If memory serves me".

Buddy and Marco played the FINAL match in Grady's '98 Legends, in Baton Rouge...and Buddy won, Marco finished 2nd.

I liked Buddy well enough going in, I had a few decent bets on him. It was never really very close.

San <---loves to see senility in someone besides himself. :eek:
 
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SJDinPHX

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Fast Lenny said:
Artie, tell me more about Gene Nagy, I have heard he was a great player, he is from NY correct?

Lenny the Locksmith, (Lenny's old NY handle, before he moved west..and actually learned to gamble):cool:

Old buddy...New York player's can be very difficult to rate...This is because there is NO (none, nada, zip) NY player, in the recorded history of pool...who has ever lost more than two barrells, at ANYTHING... Heh,Heh..:p

Some NY player's MAY have been the greatest, but they would quit before giving themselves a chance to prove it. It had to do with the way they were raised..:D

San <---Learned at a very young age, to avoid the Northeast...ask Scott if he's ever been there ?
 
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fred bentivegna

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Efren able to do more

Efren able to do more

gulfportdoc said:
Beard-- Couldn't a similar statement be made about Efren's 1P game? (Not to offend those who have bestowed Divinity upon Reyes)

Doc

The difference between Efren and Buddy was that Efren, with his balkline background could execute cue ball control, not only perfectly, but was able to do much more difficult and complicated manuevers.

the Beard
 

fred bentivegna

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Not the match I broadcast

Not the match I broadcast

SJDinPHX said:
Freddy,

The mind is a terrible thing to waste...you need to start prefacing your bold statements with... "If memory serves me".

Buddy and Marco played the FINAL match in Grady's '98 Legends, in Baton Rouge...and Buddy won, Marco finished 2nd.

I liked Buddy well enough going in, I had a few decent bets on him. It was never really very close.

San <---loves to see senility in someone besides himself. :eek:

That's not the match that I broadcast. I'm positive I didnt broadcast the championship game. Plus, I think Shannon won the tourn. They may have played twice. I tried to look it up on accu-stats but they dont have the tape available.

the Beard
 

SJDinPHX

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Was it at the "Belle of Baton Rouge" in '98 ?

Was it at the "Belle of Baton Rouge" in '98 ?

fred bentivegna said:
That's not the match that I broadcast. I'm positive I didnt broadcast the championship game. Plus, I think Shannon won the tourn. They may have played twice. I tried to look it up on accu-stats but they dont have the tape available.

the Beard

Grady.............HELP !!.:cool:
 

Fast Lenny

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SJDinPHX said:
Lenny the Locksmith, (Lenny's old NY handle, before he moved west..and actually learned to gamble):cool:

Old buddy...New York player's can be very difficult to rate...This is because there is NO (none, nada, zip) NY player, in the recorded history of pool...who has ever lost more than two barrells, at ANYTHING... Heh,Heh..:p

Some NY player's MAY have been the greatest, but they would quit before giving themselves a chance to prove it. It had to do with the way the were raised..:D

San <---Learned at a very young age, to avoid the Northeast...ask Scott if he's ever been there ?
Haha, your right, Lenny the Lock IS still my nickname in NY, it is not mainly because I pick and choose battles carefully but when the money is in the middle I get the cash more often then not, you have to be smart when you play as bad as I do. I go back to NY on Wednesday for about 2 weeks, I am sure I will get plenty of $5 bets. I know I am bit of a scuffler and have no problem being one as long as you give it your all and be the best you can be. :p

So far gambling on pool for the year I am at about $6000 winner and under $1000 loser total, not too bad for a B player. As for NY players I resemble that remark... I mean resent that remark Dick, what about Johnny Ervolino and Jack Breit? :)
 

fred bentivegna

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Called Grady

Called Grady

SJDinPHX said:
Grady.............HELP !!.:cool:


Called Grady. Said he had 2 events at that Casino. The one Im referring to occurred in the Atrium with the skylights over the tables. I think maybe that the Buddy/ Marco match occurred twice. Shannon won one of the Grady Baton Rouge tourns. Agrees that Buddy knew little one pocket but in a short race might beat anybody.

the Beard
 

lfigueroa

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fred bentivegna said:
Called Grady. Said he had 2 events at that Casino. The one Im referring to occurred in the Atrium with the skylights over the tables. I think maybe that the Buddy/ Marco match occurred twice. Shannon won one of the Grady Baton Rouge tourns. Agrees that Buddy knew little one pocket but in a short race might beat anybody.

the Beard

If memory serves...

The one in the atrium was the Buddy/Marco final.

It stunk.

I think it had been raining craw fish and bull frogs and everything else and the tables were humid and boingy and tight. Neither one of them could run any balls because of the tables.

I do believe Ronnie was in the booth for a while and it was ridiculous because neither player could get out and the match took forever.

I think Ronnie does say something about neither player knowing 1pocket, but in the context of the table conditions, that assessment was brutally unfair.

That's all I remember.

Lou Figueroa
amazed he remembered
THAT much
 
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beatle

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there are a few players like fats that have to be in or it makes the whole thing look bad. and every year one or two living players need to get in as that is part of the induction. you can put in lots of dead players to fill the rolls as many deserve it.

but until you start running low on entries it should only be those that specialized in one pocket not people that played so good they happen to be able to beat most others. let them be in the nine ball hall of fame. and dont let the entries become political as that undermines it.

those that are getting sick should go higher on the list and those that rate high need to be inducted while they are alive. also no one early in their career belongs in any hall of fame.
 

Fast Lenny

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beatle said:
there are a few players like fats that have to be in or it makes the whole thing look bad. and every year one or two living players need to get in as that is part of the induction. you can put in lots of dead players to fill the rolls as many deserve it.

but until you start running low on entries it should only be those that specialized in one pocket not people that played so good they happen to be able to beat most others. let them be in the nine ball hall of fame. and dont let the entries become political as that undermines it.

those that are getting sick should go higher on the list and those that rate high need to be inducted while they are alive. also no one early in their career belongs in any hall of fame.
I agree, the people who are up there in age should be a priority, honoring them when they are dead kind of sucks. :eek:
 

gulfportdoc

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Ervolino

Ervolino

Beard or Grady, how would you rate Ervolino's game? I never saw him play until he was well past his prime. When Ervolino was in his prime, would you put him up there with J. Red, or was he closer to Fusco?

It seems to me that Ervolino deserves HOF, but he's never gotten enough votes. I'm suspecting that no one west of the Mississippi River ever heard of him.

Doc
 

gbru

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fred bentivegna said:
Called Grady. Said he had 2 events at that Casino. The one Im referring to occurred in the Atrium with the skylights over the tables. I think maybe that the Buddy/ Marco match occurred twice. Shannon won one of the Grady Baton Rouge tourns. Agrees that Buddy knew little one pocket but in a short race might beat anybody.

the Beard


Freddy.....I've got both of the matches and they are both in VHS.

Shannon beat Buddy in the "Legends of One Pocket IV" Finals 5 to 2...with Billy and Grady on the mike.

Buddy beat Marquez in the 1998 World One Pocket Finals 4 to 3......My buddy said it was a race to 5 but they shortened it to a race to 4....He also said he thought Buddy had to beat Marquez twice.....

Maybe that first match is the one you are thinking of.....Although I don't know if Accu-stats did that one....I don't have it.

The tape says Billy and Ronnie are on the mike but you were there also....I remember you all three bullshi**ing.....I mean talking and analyzing the shots.

My VHS isn't working so I can't say for sure...

I think the San Man might be right with his opinion on a senior moment.:cool:
 

SJDinPHX

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gbru said:
Freddy.....I've got both of the matches and they are both in VHS.

Shannon beat Buddy in the "Legends of One Pocket IV" Finals 5 to 2...with Billy and Grady on the mike.

Buddy beat Marquez in the 1998 World One Pocket Finals 4 to 3......My buddy said it was a race to 5 but they shortened it to a race to 4....He also said he thought Buddy had to beat Marquez twice.....

Maybe that first match is the one you are thinking of.....Although I don't know if Accu-stats did that one....I don't have it.

The tape says Billy and Ronnie are on the mike but you were there also....I remember you all three bullshi**ing.....I mean talking and analyzing the shots.

My VHS isn't working so I can't say for sure...

I think the San Man might be right with his opinion on a senior moment.:cool:

George,

Lou is right on...in his description of the conditions. It was almost like playing underwater. I don't think Pat offers the first "Legends" final (with SD and BH) in his catalogue, but ICBW

Due to the lights, (which they only turned on about 20 mins. before the match)...the TV table was the driest.(and it was soaking wet) You got the "plastic skid" on almost every cut shot.
The rest of them were almost unplayable. How else could I have come back, from down 3-1..to win a race to 4, with Joyner ?
Buddy and Dave Maddox commentated that match, and Buddy told me afterward, they were discouraged from running down the terrible conditions.

Nobody played good on that equipment...but Buddy survived to win it. I don't remember it being that close, but it may have been.
I only know, I won some decent $$$ betting on Buddy. I think you are selling his 1P game, a little short Fred.

San

PS..Freddy, I think both Legend tournaments Grady was refering too, were played in the big Atrium...pigeon shit, boiling crabs, and all. Talk about tough conditions..:cool:
 
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beatle

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doc, i wouldnt give him the time of day. he played straight pool great and other games very well. but whenever someone had anything to do with him, well you can guess.
 

gulfportdoc

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beatle said:
doc, i wouldnt give him the time of day. he played straight pool great and other games very well. but whenever someone had anything to do with him, well you can guess.
Beatle-- Sounds like you're hinting that Ervolino might have been a bit of an unsavory character.;) Perhaps you could PM the details. But how good was his one-pocket game?

Doc
 

fred bentivegna

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Never be a politician

Never be a politician

beatle said:
there are a few players like fats that have to be in or it makes the whole thing look bad. and every year one or two living players need to get in as that is part of the induction. you can put in lots of dead players to fill the rolls as many deserve it.

but until you start running low on entries it should only be those that specialized in one pocket not people that played so good they happen to be able to beat most others. let them be in the nine ball hall of fame. and dont let the entries become political as that undermines it.

those that are getting sick should go higher on the list and those that rate high need to be inducted while they are alive. also no one early in their career belongs in any hall of fame.

Beatle,
You will never be a politician, you make too much sense. That should become the credo of the One Pocket HOF.

the Beard
 
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