palmer /efren #2

gulfportdoc said:

Bank the 9 with stun (might even go). The CB goes up behind the stack. There's no kiss.

~Doc

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There's a kiss when I shoot it. I set it up about a dozen times and tried stun, center right, and high right... I kissed over and over.

If the kiss is avoidable, what might I be doing wrong?

bstroud said:

I would go rail first off the end rail and bank the 9 ball at my pocket. If it goes I might get out. If not I am in a very good position.

This type of kick bank is easy to calculate.

Bill S.

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I really like that. For those of us who don't kick as well as we'd like, we can err on the side of hitting the 9 too full and still get good results.

palmer /efren #2

lll said:

here is ghost shot at his request

View attachment 11191

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If I was going to hit the ghosts 3rail (I do love me some 3railers) I would hit it with low right and try to come off the right long rail back into his side of the stack.

lll said:

[/B]
as beatle said you cant get the cue bal in a good spot as it lies in this layout but here is the gist of his shot to keep in the memory bank
thanks beatle
View attachment 11192

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There are so many things that can go wrong with that shot. You gotta figure thats a new cloth on the TV table that's dry and slidey, particularly coming in at that angle. That's a "five dollar shot," not a DCC, I'm playing Efren shot. Plus, if you leave his ANYWHERE uptable, especially on Palmer's side, he's gonna float at that 4-ball combo on the 15 and stack your ass regardless of what you got in front of your hole.

Why not thin the three and and float between the 9 and the cushion? No need for heroics here. Give the situation time to ripen.

This may have been suggested but I think I'd be tempted to kick-bank the 9 by hitting the 3 and play the CB off the long rail into the stack. I.e. bank the 3 into the 9 and send CB to the rail with a little LH follow.

petie said:

This may have been suggested but I think I'd be tempted to kick-bank the 9 by hitting the 3 and play the CB off the long rail into the stack. I.e. bank the 3 into the 9 and send CB to the rail with a little LH follow.

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Petie, that shot looks kinda flat, but you could shoot the three off the bottom side of the 9 to get you the angle to get to the stack. Now that shot I like IF you can clear the 5.

straightback said:

There are so many things that can go wrong with that shot. You gotta figure thats a new cloth on the TV table that's dry and slidey, particularly coming in at that angle. That's a "five dollar shot," not a DCC, I'm playing Efren shot. Plus, if you leave his ANYWHERE uptable, especially on Palmer's side, he's gonna float at that 4-ball combo on the 15 and stack your ass regardless of what you got in front of your hole.

Why not thin the three and and float between the 9 and the cushion? No need for heroics here. Give the situation time to ripen.

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straightback
if you go back and read beatles post he WAS NOT SUGGESTING THIS SHOT FOR THIS WWYD.....he was suggesting when the balls lay like this and the layout allows think of that shot as a possibility.

lll said:

straightback
if you go back and read beatles post he WAS NOT SUGGESTING THIS SHOT FOR THIS WWYD.....he was suggesting when the balls lay like this and the layout allows think of that shot as a possibility.

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I see. Good to awaken the eyes to all possibilities. Disregard my "$5" critique! Sorry, Beatle and others.

Considering on how close the cue ball is to the side rail playing off the 9ball would be very tricky imo. However, Strouds shot with kick banking the 9ball would be an option for those who are comfortable with that kind of shot.

Playing off the 3ball would also be tricky unless you shoot straight ahead and position the 3ball (going around the 9ball) by your pocket and the cue ball on the other side of the 9ball using the 9ball as a blocker for the 3ball. The problem with that shot is the speed you need to hit it with to get the cue ball to the desired positionlooks to be too hard to control the 3ball.

The Ghost 3 railer looks to be a good option playing it like he suggest, the key to his shot is to play a good cue ball. The cue ball should hit before the side pocket and then travel cross table to rest as close to the side rail as you can get it. Good things can happen with this shot and there is no kiss shooting it.

The other option that no one has suggested would be to take an intentional and go two rails into the opposite side of the stack, this shot if executed well will give the shooter the advantage, in spite of the loss of the ball to get there.

IMO

Dr. Bill

wincardona said:

The other option that no one has suggested would be to take an intentional and go two rails into the opposite side of the stack, this shot if executed well will give the shooter the advantage, in spite of the loss of the ball to get there.

IMO

Dr. Bill

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With the 6 ball being so close to the CB, why not thin off of it to get to the same position? You've got a huge landing zone...

One Pocket Ghost said:

Well, whaddayaknow...here's my 3-railer from the other day again...3 rail the 6 (the striped ball is not in the way) - stun-draw the cueball over to Efren's long rail, before the side pocket, and back over for shape on the striped ball along Billy's rail...gin...

- Ghost

PS, And it's a free shot - nothing in the stack goes in Efren's pocket...just don't miss the 3-railer way long and send it into the stack...:heh

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Is this what you mean, Ghost?

(By the way, there is a risk in the stack - see my dotted black line below...)

pj
chgo

View attachment 12412

Patrick Johnson said:

Is this what you mean, Ghost?

pj
chgo

View attachment 12160

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If you're gonna go for that, why not cue with low right and bend the ball back into the long rail and in to the stack?

straightback said:

If you're gonna go for that, why not cue with low right and bend the ball back into the long rail and I to the stack?

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Ghost's shot gives a followup shot. But there is a risk by exposing the 8 ball cut...

pj
chgo

P.S. Ghost, the double chocolate muffin was love at first bite - almost worth losing to you again. Tom, it was a pleasure teaming up with you, hopeless though it was.

straightback said:

With the 6 ball being so close to the CB, why not thin off of it to get to the same position? You've got a huge landing zone...

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I like your shot even more, if it's doable. Didn't someone mention earlier that there may not be room for that particular shot? Any ways, yes your option is the better of the two..only if you can play a good cue ball which is obviously the key to the shot, if not then take the intentional.

Dr. Bill

Patrick Johnson said:

Ghost's shot gives a followup shot. But there is a risk by exposing the 8 ball cut...

pj
chgo

P.S. Ghost, the double chocolate muffin was love at first bite - almost worth losing to you again. Tom, it was a pleasure teaming up with you, hopeless though it was.

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I say forget a "follow-up" shot. The odds of making that are abyssmal, especially on new, hot cloth. Even if you hang it, any decent player is gonna lay the CB on top of the stack and put the 15 right by their hole if you leave them uptable.

In terms of leaving the 8, I'm saying if you do shoot the three-railer, bend the CB back into the other side of the stack - Reyes' side- and let him figure something out. It's a ballsy shot but you've gotta do something to beat Reyes, right?

Patrick Johnson said:

Is this what you mean, Ghost?

(By the way, there is a risk in the stack - see my dotted black line below...)

pj
chgo

View attachment 12412

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Patrick, I wouldn't be overly concerned with giving up the shot on the 8ball because it doesn't carry position along with it. With that understanding you would want your opponent to shoot the 8ball which is certainly not a hanger, and good players know that the trade off is not playing smart, but playing poorly.

Dr. Bill

palmer /efren #2

straightback said:

If you're gonna go for that, why not cue with low right and bend the ball back into the long rail and I to the stack?

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Hey buddy..... Scroll all the way down to post #12 .

Great minds.

I would one rail bank the seven into the underside of the five ball and two rail the cue under the thirteen ball? and up table to the end rail. You might open up a ball on his side but the end rail should deter Efren from shooting. You also could make a ball as an "in off" into your pocket. Ticky tacking around with Efren in these situations is dangerous. He often finds shots to play and freeze you in the rack. The strength of his game is playing the stack and he performs less well when forced to play from the end rail. I know because he and I have played and I didn't like the outcome.

lll said:

its billy's shot in the next game
soon after the break
View attachment 11183

View attachment 11184

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Look at the 2nd pic. I feel comfortable banking the seven behind the nine and following the cue ball to the rail, getting a ball to my side and hiding it.

Of course if you nick the nine with the seven, you leave a bank and my shot is not a good one.

Looks like Johnny Ervolino in the stands.

wincardona said:

Patrick, I wouldn't be overly concerned with giving up the shot on the 8ball because it doesn't carry position along with it. With that understanding you would want your opponent to shoot the 8ball which is certainly not a hanger, and good players know that the trade off is not playing smart, but playing poorly.

Dr. Bill

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Thanks, Bill. I'm still learning to look one shot ahead, much less several...

pj
chgo