Now what!

Tom Wirth

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So we got some interesting responses with that last one. Everyone fit into one of three camps. There were those like myself and Dr. Bill who preferred to play both balls toward their pocket even though only one ball was needed. There were some who thought just banking the one ball is one of two ways was the proper shot. This left the five ball still up table. And there were some who felt a safety was the better option.

It is always more interesting when there are a variety of options and a debate can ensue.

So here is another example along the same theme.

First I'd like to set this situation up where your pocket is at X and you need both balls.

Tom
 

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Mkbtank

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Now what!

I'll elaborate on Rods response..., :)

Carom the 1 off the 5 one rail and push the cue forward a bit. Sink the one... Spot the 5..... Fire the spot shot in like it had eyes :).
 

jrhendy

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The carom off the five and pocketing the five looks good but is "Fraught With Peril" (Always wanted to say that). I would kick the five in leaving the cue ball in the hole and the five on the spot and no offensive shot for him to take without great risk and wait for a better opportunity.

WHOOPS! WRONG HOLE
 
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wincardona

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Wait a second, there's another shot that's worthy of discussion and is actually a better shot with controlling the 1ball. That would be to two rail the 1ball toward your pocket and send the cue ball three cushions around table to pocket the 5ball.

Controlling the 1ball off the hanging 5ball could be problematic, especially if the 1ball is close to the top rail. Considering the position of both the 1ball and the cue ball there's a slight problem with controlling the 1ball imo, maybe not enough to not shoot the shot but enough to choose the around the table option.

I set up the around the table option on my table and shot it four times, believe it or not I pocketed the 1ball two of the four attempts and also pocketed the 5ball twice as well. Yes I do understand that it was a small test sample but based off of the results I got it is a viable option, (imo) and my choice in this situation.

Dr. Bill
 
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wgcp

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confused

confused

Dr. Bill how did you do that without the kiss on the one when the cue ball comes back down table? I got a kiss first two times I tried it...course I am probably hitting the shot wrong...

B
 

wincardona

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Dr. Bill how did you do that without the kiss on the one when the cue ball comes back down table? I got a kiss first two times I tried it...course I am probably hitting the shot wrong...

B

There is the possibility of the kiss but not if you play the 1ball and the cue ball to go long. Playing the cue ball to go long with a good stroke will allow the cue ball to stay in front of the 1ball as it comes off the second rail, (1ball)


Try it that way and develop the feel for that type of hit and then evaluate the shot. Try to pocket the 5ball like Billy Smith would going around the table, I believe you will focus more on lengthening out the cue ball with that thought in mind.

By the way, this shot plays some what awkwardly for a right handed player, in terms of bridging, but great for a lefty. I used a very long bridge and placed my bridge hand in the pocket, I was much more comfortable using the longer bridge and was able to put more stroke into the shot and wasn't hampered by having to bridge off the rail. Just thought you may like to know that.
Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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The carom off the five and pocketing the five looks good but is "Fraught With Peril" (Always wanted to say that). I would kick the five in leaving the cue ball in the hole and the five on the spot and no offensive shot for him to take without great risk and wait for a better opportunity.
That's my thought as well John, however, i'm not kicking the 5ball though it's a pretty nifty move, i'm playing the 1ball like I described in my other post.

Dr. Bill
 

LSJohn

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Wait a second, there's another shot that's worthy of discussion and is actually a better shot with controlling the 1ball. That would be to two rail the 1ball toward your pocket and send the cue ball three cushions around table to pocket the 5ball.

Controlling the 1ball off the hanging 5ball could be problematic, especially if the 1ball is close to the top rail. Considering the position of both the 1ball and the cue ball there's a slight problem with controlling the 1ball imo, maybe not enough to not shoot the shot but enough to choose the around the table option.

I set up the around the table option on my table and shot it four times, believe it or not I pocketed the 1ball two of the four attempts and also pocketed the 5ball twice as well. Yes I do understand that it was a small test sample but based off of the results I got it is a viable option, (imo) and my choice in this situation.

Dr. Bill

Yeah, but the problem with that shot is that the weight will change for future games, and you won't like the change. :p :lol
 

wincardona

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Wait a second, there's another shot that's worthy of discussion and is actually a better shot with controlling the 1ball. That would be to two rail the 1ball toward your pocket and send the cue ball three cushions around table to pocket the 5ball.

Controlling the 1ball off the hanging 5ball could be problematic, especially if the 1ball is close to the top rail. Considering the position of both the 1ball and the cue ball there's a slight problem with controlling the 1ball imo, maybe not enough to not shoot the shot but enough to choose the around the table option.

I set up the around the table option on my table and shot it four times, believe it or not I pocketed the 1ball two of the four attempts and also pocketed the 5ball twice as well. Yes I do understand that it was a small test sample but based off of the results I got it is a viable option, (imo) and my choice in this situation.

Dr. Bill
The position of the 1ball in relation to the top rail is crucial when deciding options in this type of a situation. The closer the 1ball is to the top rail the more difficult the hit is, in what I would consider a tricky shot played in that fashion. Like John alluded to.."fraught with peril" He's always wanted to say that, even though it's not that bad, but "handle with care" may be more appropriate.:)

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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This is why they call him "Doctor Bill". He has the prescription for most all symptoms. Bill, you foresaw where I was going with this situation. Well done.

Of course if needing two balls you will want to get them both in play and the carom fits the bill. But what to do if needing only one ball? Play safe? How?

By playing safe in this situation you will allow your opponent an opportunity to pocket the five and get both balls in play. This is something you wish to avoid if possible. The shot the good Doctor described is the medicine.

He is also correct when he suggested that drawing the cue ball further down the side rail will help prevent a double kiss. This action provides a wider berth and more time for the one ball to travel its path.

Sometimes playing safe is more risky than taking a shot at your pocket. Keep aware that you must anticipate your opponent's probable response to whatever you do.

Tom
 

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Mkbtank

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Now what!

This is why they call him "Doctor Bill". He has the prescription for most all symptoms. Bill, you foresaw where I was going with this situation. Well done.



Of course if needing two balls you will want to get them both in play and the carom fits the bill. But what to do if needing only one ball? Play safe? How?



By playing safe in this situation you will allow your opponent an opportunity to pocket the five and get both balls in play. This is something you wish to avoid if possible. The shot the good Doctor described is the medicine.



He is also correct when he suggested that drawing the cue ball further down the side rail will help prevent a double kiss. This action provides a wider berth and more time for the one ball to travel its path.



Sometimes playing safe is more risky than taking a shot at your pocket. Keep aware that you must anticipate your opponent's probable response to whatever you do.



Tom


Far be it from me to question one of my 1p heroes... Let alone two of them.... But.... Just for clarification...

At the end of Dr Bills shot, you have attempted a shot on the 1 and pocketed the 5. Correct? The same end result as the first shot posted (Rod, (I think), Lsjohn, and myself). The only difference as I see it that your shot needs the cue to travel around the world and successfully score to pocket the 5, while ours is practically guaranteed on the 5 and the cue barely needs to travel at all. Same end result, so why the added level of difficulty? Plus with the speed that you need to use to get the cue back to the 5, aren't you more likely to leave a return shot on the 1 if you don't pocket it?

I'm sure you have reasons.. I just don't know, so want to learn from them :)
 

Tom Wirth

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Far be it from me to question one of my 1p heroes... Let alone two of them.... But.... Just for clarification...

At the end of Dr Bills shot, you have attempted a shot on the 1 and pocketed the 5. Correct? The same end result as the first shot posted (Rod, (I think), Lsjohn, and myself). The only difference as I see it that your shot needs the cue to travel around the world and successfully score to pocket the 5, while ours is practically guaranteed on the 5 and the cue barely needs to travel at all. Same end result, so why the added level of difficulty? Plus with the speed that you need to use to get the cue back to the 5, aren't you more likely to leave a return shot on the 1 if you don't pocket it?

I'm sure you have reasons.. I just don't know, so want to learn from them :)

Mitch, you picked up on something I hadn't noticed before in The good Dr.'s post. You are right. He suggested an alternative to the carom by playing the two rail shot and sending the cue ball three rails to pocket the five. I'm not a big fan of that action when needing both balls. I'm not sure Dr. Bill is suggesting this would be his choice. I think he is simply offering another option.

The problem with that alternative is, if neither the one or five are pocketed, your opponent can clear the one without having to deal with the five ball which will still be out of play. By playing the carom shot off the five you will have both balls in play and this objective is an imperative when needing both balls.

What I am suggesting differs from Dr. Bill's (needing both balls) is when only one ball is needed. Now the shot Bill suggested works very well but without the carom into the five.

Tom
 

crabbcatjohn

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question

question

I have a question for all the end game movers. As you need 2 i think most everybody shoots the carom so you get both balls in play. My question is where is the best leave for the cue ball. Force it forward up closer to the side rail or stop it where the one is and why?
 

wincardona

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To me it all depends on the position of the 1ball in relation to the top rail if the 1ball is positioned too close to the rail that would create accuracy problems with the hit. Yes it's a big deal in controlling the 1ball and with the around the table option you have much better control of the 1ball. To me controlling the 1ball is very important for obvious reasons.

Dr. Bill
 

gulfportdoc

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... The problem with that alternative is, if neither the one or five are pocketed, your opponent can clear the one without having to deal with the five ball which will still be out of play. By playing the carom shot off the five you will have both balls in play and this objective is an imperative when needing both balls.

What I am suggesting differs from Dr. Bill's (needing both balls) is when only one ball is needed. Now the shot Bill suggested works very well but without the carom into the five. Tom
That's the advantage of combo-ing in the 5 first, then sending the 1 towards your pocket: both balls will end up in play for you, if the 1 doesn't fall.

I can't tell from the angle if the 1 would be better one-railed or two-railed (while pocketing the 5). I'll have to take it to the table to see...

~Doc
 
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