Look at this bank by Tony Chohan against Justin Hall

Skin · Jan 14, 2016

androd said:
The best way to draw the CB when on the rail is to strike the rail first on the way down. Helps a lot.

That doesn't push the tip to center, Rod? Would never have thought of it.

straightback · Jan 14, 2016

Skin said:
That doesn't push the tip to center, Rod? Would never have thought of it.

You can't "hit through" a lot of the cushion, but maybe a 1/4" or so can compress and sorta move out of the way. When you are pinned on the foot fall and have to draw back there off the stack, this shot comes in handy.

Cory in dc · Jan 14, 2016

lfigueroa said:
Yesterday, after watching the video numerous times, the shot was setup on a Diamond table. The shooter (a very straight shooter and 1pocket player) never got the bank close after a dozen tries. He kicked the ball out successfully on the first attempt. One of the best 1pocket players in the Midwest was watching and he just laughed when I told him you thought the bank was the right shot.

So yes, the kick is a more than viable option.

Lou Figueroa

I am definitively worse than whoever "one of the best 1pocket players in the Midwest" happens to be. Even so, I am pretty sure I can get the bank close on the shot that Wayne posted in less than a dozen tries. I will report back tonight.

The key thing to consider is that, for Tony to have intended the bank that he actually made, Tony doesn't have to be confident that he can make or hang the bank. He just has to be confident that he can (1) move the CB along the approximate path that he actually did move it along and (2) won't leave the object ball hanging.

That's not unreasonable at all for a shooter of Tony's skill.

Cory

lfigueroa · Jan 14, 2016

Cory in dc said:
I am definitively worse than whoever "one of the best 1pocket players in the Midwest" happens to be. Even so, I am pretty sure I can get the bank close on the shot that Wayne posted in less than a dozen tries. I will report back tonight.

The key thing to consider is that, for Tony to have intended the bank that he actually made, Tony doesn't have to be confident that he can make or hang the bank. He just has to be confident that he can (1) move the CB along the approximate path that he actually did move it along and (2) won't leave the object ball hanging.

That's not unreasonable at all for a shooter of Tony's skill.

Cory

Personally I think a salient point is that in a game situation you only get one whack at it.

Sooooo, its your shot. I believe your opponent is Justin Hall. Lot's of dough at stake. Cameras are rolling. Your stake horse is sweating the match. Are you shooting the bank, the kick, or sumthin' else? Of course I think most reasonable people would agree that it's totally different if you just get to wail at the shot over-and-over on your favorite table for shits and grins.

Lou Figueroa

Cory in dc · Jan 14, 2016

lfigueroa said:
Personally I think a salient point is that in a game situation you only get one whack at it.

Sooooo, its your shot. I believe your opponent is Justin Hall. Lot's of dough at stake. Cameras are rolling. Your stake horse is sweating the match. Are you shooting the bank, the kick, or sumthin' else? Of course I think most reasonable people would agree that it's totally different if you just get to wail at the shot over-and-over on your favorite table for shits and grins.

Lou Figueroa

Take your scenario and add, "You happen to be Tony Chohan and you're playing world class one pocket of late" and the answer is sure, I just might shoot it.

There are a few specialty shots that I've practiced and I've played them in real matches for real money. I've jumped the stack on a bank shot, played timing shots back into the cue ball, played a 4 rail safety shot using extreme inside english that reverses on the second rail, and a few others. I practiced them and when a variant comes up and there's nothing better, I use them in real games with real people.

For every one such shot that I know and can execute, Chohan probably knows and can execute 10. So I am not quick to project my limitations onto champions.

gulfportdoc · Jan 14, 2016

Wayne said:
I set it up and shot it again for anyone who doubts what Tony did. I did it jacked up like Tony this time.

I set up the camera angle so you can clearly see what Tony did.

There is a way to measure exactly how much ball you need to hit to go off the rail and off the point.

Tony's execution was incredible. ...

Great shot, Wayne! As you say, what makes the shot especially difficult was that Tony was jacked up on the rail. But I do agree that there was really not much of a downside to him shooting it; especially if his main objective was to get the CB up table on the other side of the stack. Even if he really blew the bank, not much bad could happen.

P.M. me your measuring method. I won't tell anybody....

~Doc

gulfportdoc · Jan 14, 2016

wincardona said:
... I thanked him for his time and wished him luck in his one pocket match coming up, he's going to give Dean Adkins the break in Det. soon. ...

The only question here is, how much will Dee lose before his backer heads out the door...

I think Dee needs more than the break from Tony, especially if Dee must alternate sides.

~Doc

lfigueroa · Jan 14, 2016

oops duplicate post

Lou Figueroa

sheldon · Jan 14, 2016

Thanks for that!

wincardona said:
For those who may be concerned I talked to Tony about the shot again, and it was a very honest conversation for any doubters. I asked him to describe to me how he hit the shot and how he felt about both the cue ball and ob without leading him in any direction. He said he shot it into the rail, I then countered with "How did you shoot it into the rail" He said what do you mean? I answered with "Did you hit ball first or rail first?" He said ..ball first. I apologize to you all I felt he hit rail first. Especially to you Doc. I then asked him if he felt at any time that the kiss was there, and also if he was confident with the ob. He answered and said that there is no kiss and he was confident about the ob as well. Of course we are talking about one of the top four players in the world but none the less the option was there if you feel good about the shot. Which was evidenced.

The conversation took another turn and I asked him about the 1ball kick option, he replied by hesitating and then said "what option" I know he heard me but maybe he didn't remember how viable of an option it is, or maybe it isn't.I then repeated myself and again said "kicking the 1ball" he said that it wasn't an option he liked because he couldn't hit deeply enough to control the cue ball. He said that it would stay down table and possibly where the 1ball is positioned. I thanked him for his time and wished him luck in his one pocket match coming up, he's going to give Dean Adkins the break in Det. soon.

That's my report from the man who shot the shot and if there were any other options he liked including the kick on the 1ball.

Dr. Bill
Good night and good luck.

Cory in dc · Jan 14, 2016

Ok, 1st try I got a decent outcome and on the 2nd try I made it! Both times, it was easy to get the cueball going in the right direction.(*) This is now a shot I will shoot in a match. I also believe that if Tony ever spent 30 minutes shooting this, he would have the confidence to play it in any match.

It's absolutely nuts to think Tony was trying to kick and got lucky. I don't think it was nuts to advance the theory, but it is nuts to cling to it despite extensive contrary evidence.

And yes, I shot it with the cueball off the rail. Tony's accuracy when he's on the rail is probably near mine when I am not near the rail. I'm a reasonably good B player.

Cory

(*) I am really curious who Lou's mystery 1P champion is. Having watched him play JB, I am confident that Lou could make this shot too.

First try:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kGq_LpxXHRg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Second try:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JFNMoxrCeqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

lll · Jan 14, 2016

lfigueroa said:
Quote lfigueroa:
And thats goes to the root of the beauty of our preferred game: there are numerous “right shots.” And what a boring, dull, stupid world this would be if we all played the Billy way. Or for that matter, the Tom way. Players develop opinions on what the “right shot” is based upon their experience but also their strengths and weaknesses. Would SVB shoot the same shoot you would? Or how about Corey Duel — is he going to shoot the same shot as Billy? Of course not.

Quote Tom Wirth:
This I disagree with. In many cases, not all, there is a good shot, a better shot, and a best shot. The best shot does not necessarily need to be a shot that requires great cueing skills but sound thinking.

BS. What is right for Alex, Efren, SVB, Danny, and on and on is not right for the vast majority of players.

We construct our strategies and shot selection based upon our strengths and weakness.

Lou Figueroa

i think there are two parallel discussions here
tom is right
if you have all the skills there is a best shot
if you dont lou is right
you have to shoot he shot you can execute the best
jmho
icbw
HOWEVER
when we learn what really is the BEST shot we can practice it so we can execute it too
THIS SITE IS GREAT IN SHOWING THE BEST SHOT /GOOD SHOT /AND NOT SO GOOD SHOT/
AND EXPLAINING WHY

kollegedave · Jan 14, 2016

Wayne said:
Wrong on all counts (as usual). No masse, no luck involved and he took his time going to his next shot.

Wrong as usual? I have definitely seen people luck balls in and pretend like they played it. He says he played it according to Dr. Bill. I guess we could take T-Rex's word for it.

kollegedave

straightback · Jan 14, 2016

Just for the record: there is a reason everyone is intrigued with this shot, and the reason is that you don't see it because good players don't shoot it. Maybe if you were intimately familiar with a table this would be worth the risk, but even then it is unpredictable.

I put it in the same category as all those Beard banks "off the round" - yeah, it's *possible*, but the facings are different on every table and you can't rely on this shot.

Of those that tried the shot out: did you not hang the ball in the opponent's pocket at least some of time?

LSJohn · Jan 15, 2016

straightback said:
Of those that tried the shot out: did you not hang the ball in the opponent's pocket at least some of time?

I never did that, I usually hit too much ball and the OB went high. I made it once and hung it once in about 10 tries, and my worst result was thinly hitting the inside of the ball by my pocket which left just the right amount of speed on the OB for it to end up back by his pocket. Another time I doubled the pocket and the OB followed the CB up-table but, coincidentally, left no shot on it.

I think the shot is playable under a lot of circumstances.

Miller · Jan 15, 2016

Cory in dc said:
Ok, 1st try I got a decent outcome and on the 2nd try I made it! Both times, it was easy to get the cueball going in the right direction.(*) This is now a shot I will shoot in a match. I also believe that if Tony ever spent 30 minutes shooting this, he would have the confidence to play it in any match.

It's absolutely nuts to think Tony was trying to kick and got lucky. I don't think it was nuts to advance the theory, but it is nuts to cling to it despite extensive contrary evidence.

And yes, I shot it with the cueball off the rail. Tony's accuracy when he's on the rail is probably near mine when I am not near the rail. I'm a reasonably good B player.

Cory

(*) I am really curious who Lou's mystery 1P champion is. Having watched him play JB, I am confident that Lou could make this shot too.

First try:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kGq_LpxXHRg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Second try:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/JFNMoxrCeqo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

good shot my man. you're right. i've seen figueroa do some pretty funky things on a pool table. just cause he might be able to pocket it, doesn't mean he'd shoot it..... as far as the killer lou is referring to, couldn't say. but there are some monsters that play out of rich's room. maybe he's referring to bergman....who knows, wasn't there....

NH Steve · Jan 15, 2016

I moved a good number of the argumentative posts into the Member's forum.

PS I read them first lol.

JAM · Jan 16, 2016

NH Steve said:
I moved a good number of the argumentative posts into the Member's forum.

PS I read them first lol.

I just shared a cup of joe at ther Member's Cafe. Food for thought! [pun intended]

Look at this bank by Tony Chohan against Justin Hall

Skin

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straightback

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