Push Shots

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Hard Times Carla

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Cue ball is frozen to object ball. Some say you can shoot straight through this, and the cue ball follows straight through as fast as the object ball. I would rather have my opponent [and myself] elevate or shoot at a 45 degree angle away from the object ball.

How do you guys do it in gambling matches? Is there an advantage to allowing the straight through push?
 
cincy_kid

cincy_kid

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This is a good question Carla and I almost brought this point up in the other thread that was talking about Appleton's fram shot.

This doesn't come up as much as you would think (usually there is a hair between the 2 balls) but I would imagine that the rules vary and I would just make sure with the tournament director or with your opponent when gambling on how they play.

Speaking from my personal experience, I have always adopted the Grady method which is to say that if the CB is frozen to the OB, you can push straight through the balls. The reason being is because it does not produce a double hit. Since they are already frozen, when you push through, it only hits the ball once.

Of course someone could try to hit it twice bu doing an extra long follow through but it would be hard to do.

/my 2cp
 
sneakynito

sneakynito

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gulfportdoc

gulfportdoc

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cincy_kid said:
...
Speaking from my personal experience, I have always adopted the Grady method which is to say that if the CB is frozen to the OB, you can push straight through the balls. The reason being is because it does not produce a double hit. Since they are already frozen, when you push through, it only hits the ball once.
...
Click to expand...
I think that's the key point, CK. As long as the cue tip strikes once, and does not push through maintaining contact, then it's logical that shooting the CB into a frozen cue ball is allowed.

It's actually tricky to get a double hit on with a frozen cue ball. When the CB is only a slight gap from the OB, then the CB momentarily stops, allowing the cue tip to catch up with the CB. When the balls are frozen, they move as one. You'd almost have to place the tip against the CB, then push it to maintain contact. No double hit, no foul.

~Doc
 
sappo

sappo

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if the 2 balls are frozen you can push thru. if they aren't frozen you either have to shoot away on an angle or hit down on the cue ball so that the cue ball does not move forward.
 
Billy Jackets

Billy Jackets

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Carla Johnson said:
Cue ball is frozen to object ball. Some say you can shoot straight through this, and the cue ball follows straight through as fast as the object ball. I would rather have my opponent [and myself] elevate or shoot at a 45 degree angle away from the object ball.

How do you guys do it in gambling matches? Is there an advantage to allowing the straight through push?
Click to expand...

Shooting down on the ball has it's own perils.
The cueball can rebound and hit the tip again, that is also a foul.
Anyone gambling should make this clear with opponent before they ever start a game, I have been in pool rooms all over the country and many still play that frozen balls are push shots. A few even call push if you elevate!
I really believe they are just that far behind the times in the rules, not trying to cheat.
 
darmoose

darmoose

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sappo said:
if the 2 balls are frozen you can push thru. if they aren't frozen you either have to shoot away on an angle or hit down on the cue ball so that the cue ball does not move forward.
Click to expand...

For me, this is the most single frequent cause for disagreement when playing one pocket. I am ok with "hitting" a QB that's frozen to an OB. But, I think that using the term "push through" is part of the problem. You must hit the QB as you normally would, not PUSH through.

And as said before, when the QB is close (how close is close?) you can jack up and hit it, but if the QB goes forward after contact you probably fouled.:sorry
 
sappo

sappo

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darmoose said:
For me, this is the most single frequent cause for disagreement when playing one pocket. I am ok with "hitting" a QB that's frozen to an OB. But, I think that using the term "push through" is part of the problem. You must hit the QB as you normally would, not PUSH through.

And as said before, when the QB is close (how close is close?) you can jack up and hit it, but if the QB goes forward after contact you probably fouled.:sorry
Click to expand...


i agree with that
 
W

wincardona

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Tournament rules states that you can push through the ball if the cue ball and ob are frozen, however, if the cue ball controls any other ball during the process then the shot is illegal and regarded as a foul. Example..if the cue ball is frozen to the stack and your playing one pocket and your pocket is on the other side of the stack you cannot push through the stack because you are not only controlling the ball the cue ball is frozen to you are also illegally controlling balls that are behind the ob that is frozen to the cue ball. This would also apply to a shot where you push through an ob and the cue ball and ob contacts another ball in the process (while the cue tip is on the cue ball)

Imo this is a terrible rule and we should go back to how we played it in the old days by elevating on all frozen and shots that are almost frozen and executing the shot so that the cue ball shows character, either stopping or slowing down with the "back spin" that needs to be applied to all shots of this kind. And yes this is a clouded area and I would suggest that if you play with the old rules (like I always do) then before the match it should be discussed and during the match you need to inform your opponent before shooting any shot that fits the description above before shooting for validation of the shot in question.

Have a great day Carla.

Bill Incardona
 
darmoose

darmoose

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wincardona said:
Tournament rules states that you can push through the ball if the cue ball and ob are frozen, however, if the cue ball controls any other ball during the process then the shot is illegal and regarded as a foul. Example..if the cue ball is frozen to the stack and your playing one pocket and your pocket is on the other side of the stack you cannot push through the stack because you are not only controlling the ball the cue ball is frozen to you are also illegally controlling balls that are behind the ob that is frozen to the cue ball. This would also apply to a shot where you push through an ob and the cue ball and ob contacts another ball in the process (while the cue tip is on the cue ball)

Imo this is a terrible rule and we should go back to how we played it in the old days by elevating on all frozen and shots that are almost frozen and executing the shot so that the cue ball shows character, either stopping or slowing down with the "back spin" that needs to be applied to all shots of this kind. And yes this is a clouded area and I would suggest that if you play with the old rules (like I always do) then before the match it should be discussed and during the match you need to inform your opponent before shooting any shot that fits the description above before shooting for validation of the shot in question.

Have a great day Carla.

Bill Incardona
Click to expand...

Bill

Yes, this is a murky area, and there seems to be no clear definitive rule coming.

Since when shooting a shot like this, things seem to happen too fast to see for sure what just happened, and shooter vs onlooker often see things differently, what to you is the best evidence that when jacking up on a close shot in an attempt to draw the QB back and away from the OB, that a double hit foul just occurred?
 
J

Jeff sparks

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Is this shot a foul?

Is this shot a foul?

The CB and the OB are 1/8" apart... You address the CB with the tip of the cue very near the extreme low outside edge of the CB... Now you make a powerful stroke shooting directly into the OB... The CB snaps back instantly, drawing the entire length of the table...

Is that a foul?
 
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W

wincardona

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Jeff sparks said:
The CB and the OB are 1/8" apart... You address the CB with the tip of the cue very near the extreme low outside edge of the CB... Now you make a powerful stroke shooting directly into the OB... The CB snaps back instantly, drawing the entire length of the table...

Is that a foul?
Click to expand...

Imo it's a legal shot. I would even go as far as the cue ball going forward with the back spin that has been applied and grabbing and either bringing it back or slowing it up. What I don't like is when the cue ball has no back spin and continues in a forward direction usually at the same speed as the ob.

The way the rule reads today is that if the cue ball and ob are frozen you can stroke through the cue ball sending both the ob and cue ball in a forward direction at the same speed.:confused: Now that isn't the way pool is suplosed to be played, to me that's a foul clearly.

Dr. Bill
 
O

onepockethacker

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Easiest way to play is you have to jack up and shoot 45 degrees away.. Ends all arguments unless you like to argue when you play.
 
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