****The Secret of the Half Ball****

mr3cushion

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Like I said in my post, "I'm not trying to say this is better than your way of visualizing it, Bill, just an alternative way".

Jeez...

pj
chgo

Sorry Patrick, didn't read the entire post! (I'm not trying to say this is better than your way of visualizing it, Bill, just an alternative way. )
You're right it's just a another way of doing it! Maybe you may feel the method you describe is an alternative because some players, "still" start out aiming at the "center" of the CB, then move over to English.

There are NO TOP 3 Cushion players that would EVER think of doing it that way!
 
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Patrick Johnson

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Sorry Patrick, didn't read the entire post!
It's all good, Bill. :)

By the way, this tip of yours reminds me of one I often repeat to myself: "aim your stroke". That means to find a target at (or near) the OB that my tip should be pointed at to make the shot - say the spot on the ghost ball that corresponds to the spot on the CB that I'm going to hit (or a nearby spot if I'm using sidespin and adjusting for squirt/swerve).

I aim my stick at that spot for aiming, and I also "aim my stroke" at it - like imagining I'm trying to hit the ghost ball with my tip (through the same spot on the CB). That helps me consciously keep it straight and accurate, especially for long shots.

pj
chgo

P.S. Of course, I can't really aim my tip at the precise spot on the ghost ball because my stick is almost always pointed below it - but aiming on the correct line (left/right) is helpful to me nonetheless.
 

mr3cushion

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it's all good, bill. :)

by the way, this tip of yours reminds me of one i often repeat to myself: "aim your stroke". That means to find a target at (or near) the ob that my tip should be pointed at to make the shot - say the spot on the ghost ball that corresponds to the spot on the cb that i'm going to hit (or a nearby spot if i'm using sidespin and adjusting for squirt/swerve).

I aim my stick at that spot for aiming, and i also "aim my stroke" at it - like imagining i'm trying to hit the ghost ball with my tip (through the same spot on the cb). That helps me consciously keep it straight and accurate, especially for long shots.

Pj
chgo

p.s. Of course, i can't really aim my tip at the precise spot on the ghost ball because my stick is almost always pointed below it - but aiming on the correct line (left/right) is helpful to me nonetheless.

100% correct!
 

Scrzbill

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Very informative approach to the half ball method and well explained. It is something I have been trying to master for 50 years with partial success. I do know that when I hit it right, I've won.
 

mr3cushion

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Very informative approach to the half ball method and well explained. It is something I have been trying to master for 50 years with partial success. I do know that when I hit it right, I've won.

Scrzbill; Is your comment directed towards, Me, Patrick or Both of us? This way I'll know whether to TY, or not! :)
 

Patrick Johnson

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More Half Ball Hit "Gems"

More Half Ball Hit "Gems"

Since we're on the subject (thanks, Bill), here are links to some more "gems" about the half ball hit from Dr. Dave, Mike Page and Bob Jewett:

Dr. Dave's Half Ball Hit "Gems" page

Mike Page's Half Ball Hit videos

Bob Jewett's Half Ball Hit article (Billiards Digest, Nov 2000)

Dr. Dave: "The 30-degree rule states that for a rolling CB, the deflected angle is very close to 30 degrees for all cut angles between 1/4-ball and 3/4-ball hits (not just a 1/2-ball hit). This gem is the single most important and useful principle in pool."

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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Since we're on the subject (thanks, Bill), here are links to some more "gems" about the half ball hit from Dr. Dave, Mike Page and Bob Jewett:

Dr. Dave's Half Ball Hit "Gems" page

Mike Page's Half Ball Hit videos

Bob Jewett's Half Ball Hit article (Billiards Digest, Nov 2000)

Dr. Dave: "The 30-degree rule states that for a rolling CB, the deflected angle is very close to 30 degrees for all cut angles between 1/4-ball and 3/4-ball hits (not just a 1/2-ball hit). This gem is the single most important and useful principle in pool."

pj
chgo

Here we go, "Pandora's Box!" :eek: I think YOU know how "I" feel about this EXTREME, Scientific "Stuff!" ;)

Have "Fun" guys!
 

Patrick Johnson

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Here we go, "Pandora's Box!" :eek: I think YOU know how "I" feel about this EXTREME, Scientific "Stuff!" ;)

Have "Fun" guys!
Bill, your own tips about the half ball hit are just as "scientific" as anything you'll find at those links - that's why they work!

pj
chgo
 

pvclou

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****The Secret of the Half Ball****

How much DO you aim the object ball in Billiards? It seems to me that your aiming system is made for cue ball accuracy more than object ball. I won't be able to hit a ball for another 8 days or so, but I'm curious to see how well I can use your system for pool
 

mr3cushion

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How much DO you aim the object ball in Billiards? It seems to me that your aiming system is made for cue ball accuracy more than object ball. I won't be able to hit a ball for another 8 days or so, but I'm curious to see how well I can use your system for pool

The CB is NEVER the issue, your cue is mm away from it! I and MOST TOP 3C players look at the OB last, the "margin of error" striking the CB perfectly in 3C is much greater than in pocket billiards! It's the "Proper" stroke and hit on the OB and speed that are imperative playing 3C correctly to control ALL 3 balls!
 

Patrick Johnson

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How much DO you aim the object ball in Billiards? It seems to me that your aiming system is made for cue ball accuracy more than object ball. I won't be able to hit a ball for another 8 days or so, but I'm curious to see how well I can use your system for pool
Bill's system is a way of accurately aligning the CB and OB for a half ball hit, assuming the CB goes straight where you're pointing it.

But of course there's squirt and swerve to account for with sidespin shots (even more in pool than in 3C because pool balls are lighter and squirt more). So some "adjustment" must be made, either consciously or subconsciously, for most sidespin shots. The adjustment can be either aiming a little offline or hitting at the right speed and butt elevation to match squirt and swerve (so they "even out"), or a combination of those.

pj
chgo
 

Scrzbill

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Scrzbill; Is your comment directed towards, Me, Patrick or Both of us? This way I'll know whether to TY, or not! :)

I don't text so I don't know what TY means. My blurb is directed at the author of the thread. I did not read through the rest of the comments because at my age I will forget what I was trying to learn.
 

mr3cushion

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Bill's system is a way of accurately aligning the CB and OB for a half ball hit, assuming the CB goes straight where you're pointing it.

But of course there's squirt and swerve to account for with sidespin shots (even more in pool than in 3C because pool balls are lighter and squirt more). So some "adjustment" must be made, either consciously or subconsciously, for most sidespin shots. The adjustment can be either aiming a little offline or hitting at the right speed and butt elevation to match squirt and swerve (so they "even out"), or a combination of those.

pj
chgo

So, Patrick; according to the above paragraph, I'm assuming YOU don't put much stock in "LD" shafts to considerably REDUCE "squirt!"

I'm assuming, like the rest of "scientific" cue games community, YOU do NOT believe in using, "different" strokes!

In 1979, the predecessor to the current, "BEST" Carom player, (Frederick Caudron) in the World, was the, "GREATEST" 3 Cushion player of the "Modern game," Raymond Ceulemans! His book entitled "MIster 100," for that many "Championships" titles He had WON up to that date! This book is considered the, "Bible" for "Advanced" 3 Cushion players ALL over the world! And the "First" book to address the issues of, correct calculations on the, "RC system" and explanations of the various "different strokes" used to produce the correct placement of the balls for "position play!"

Here are excerpts from the book, (by the way in 6 different languages) to describe and demonstrate the, "key code" in the book for. A "follow-through" stroke, "short" stroke, "rapid" stroke, "slow" stroke and "dead-ball" stroke. these "strokes" are the ESSENTIAL key to playing, properly and "position" in 3 Cushion billiards! And how they appear on a page to instruct the reader to understand the diagrams. The page describes the use of the "RC" calculations for a "3 cushion bank shot."

View attachment 10481


View attachment 10482

The strokes used in the 3C game, along with the "conic" shaped shafts and size of 3C balls, helps reduce the effect of so called, "squirt!"

BTW, If advocating using "different" strokes to play 3 Cushion correctly by the "Greatest" player of ALL time works for him and the rest of the 3C community, it's good enough for ME!
 
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Patrick Johnson

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Mr3cushion:
So, Patrick; according to the above paragraph, I'm assuming YOU don't put much stock in "LD" shafts to considerably REDUCE "squirt!"
Of course I do, Bill - it's a demonstrated (i.e. "scientific") fact. But "considerably reduce" doesn't mean "eliminate" - and even if it did there would still be swerve to deal with.

I'm assuming, like the rest of "scientific" cue games community, YOU do NOT believe in using, "different" strokes!
I think it's clear that squirt can only be compensated for, not reduced or eliminated, by your stroke. An example of this is a "swooping" stroke to apply sidespin - some think such a stroke eliminates squirt, but it really just changes the angle at which you hit the CB, the same as changing your aim to compensate.

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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Of course I do, Bill - it's a demonstrated (i.e. "scientific") fact. But "considerably reduce" doesn't mean "eliminate" - and even if it did there would still be swerve to deal with.


I think it's clear that squirt can only be compensated for, not reduced or eliminated, by your stroke. An example of this is a "swooping" stroke to apply sidespin - some think such a stroke eliminates squirt, but it really just changes the angle at which you hit the CB, the same as changing your aim to compensate.

pj
chgo


I don't know ANYTNING, about "swoop", "Sideswipe" or ANY other stroke that isn't, a "DEAD STRAIGHT THRU," stroke, "horizontally and Vertically," and NIETHER DO any TOP 3C players around the world!
 

Patrick Johnson

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I don't know ANYTNING, about "swoop", "Sideswipe" or ANY other stroke that isn't, a "DEAD STRAIGHT THRU," stroke, "horizontally and Vertically," and NIETHER DO any TOP 3C players around the world![/SIZE]
Glad to see we agree on that. Other players have said they think there's benefit in a non-straight stroke, but I think you and other top 3C players know better.

pj
chgo
 

LSJohn

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monett missouri
Since we're on the subject (thanks, Bill), here are links to some more "gems" about the half ball hit from Dr. Dave, Mike Page and Bob Jewett:

Dr. Dave's Half Ball Hit "Gems" page

Mike Page's Half Ball Hit videos

Bob Jewett's Half Ball Hit article (Billiards Digest, Nov 2000)

Dr. Dave: "The 30-degree rule states that for a rolling CB, the deflected angle is very close to 30 degrees for all cut angles between 1/4-ball and 3/4-ball hits (not just a 1/2-ball hit). This gem is the single most important and useful principle in pool."

pj
chgo

That 30 degree deflection from 1/4 to 3/4 hit was incomprehensible to me until someone 'splained it. So many shots seem to come up wanting to roll a straight back bank that are on a scratch angle almost no matter where you hit the OB. :mad:
 
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