What Would You Ask Dick?

tylerdurden

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Why does every player think their knowledge is superior to other players? I really don't think this is true in other sports, at least not to the extent that it is in one pocket.
 

SJDinPHX

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Why does every player think their knowledge is superior to other players? I really don't think this is true in other sports, at least not to the extent that it is in one pocket.

Very quick of you to catch on Tyler..Obviously the idiots who think they know the game, (ie, Ghoast, Beard, and the Hacker, etc)..are misleading all the newbies, with stupid, idiotic, shot selections...I suggest you only listen to myself and Rod, as we are the only ones who really know whats going on...(and I ain't too sure about Rod)..:rolleyes:
 
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tylerdurden

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Very quick of you to catch on Tyler..Obviously the idiots who think they know the game, (ie, Ghoast, Beard, and the Hacker, etc)..are misleading all the newbies, with stupid, idiotic, shot selections...I suggest you only listen to myself and Rod, as we are the only ones who really know whats going on...(and I ain't too sure about Rod)..:rolleyes:

I'm serious though, and I mean no offense, but if you take something like chess, i'm sure there would be a lot of deference going on toward the top man and his philosophies. It aint true in one hole. One reason is the execution argument, but I dont think that explains it all away. In any event, the topic sincerely interests me, maybe it is a pool player thing and not a one pocket thing.
 

Cary

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I'm serious though, and I mean no offense, but if you take something like chess, i'm sure there would be a lot of deference going on toward the top man and his philosophies. It aint true in one hole. One reason is the execution argument, but I dont think that explains it all away. In any event, the topic sincerely interests me, maybe it is a pool player thing and not a one pocket thing.

I'm afraid the issue is your perception. There was NEVER any deference between Spasky & Fischer nor is there between any of the best of the best in any field--public press releases don't count. Grudging respect, maybe, but if Jung were alive today he would still believe Freud was an idiot.
 

Ken_4fun

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LOL.

One of the few things you can say about ALL pool players, IMO, is that they all over-estimate their game.

My thought on why there is a difference on the "right shot", is because (again IMO) of shot confidence.

For example, here in Kentucky, when playing one pocket these guys shoot more banks (and shoot them well) than what I have seen more North where I came from. Again, Billy Incardona explains you have to evaluate the risk verses reward on each shot. I see them shooting what I think is the wrong shot, but they make it.

Dick -

You didnt answer my last post.

Ken
 

Fast Lenny

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The difference between your average player and a pro is that when a pro misses a shot he is unpleasantly surprised and when the average players makes the same shot he is pleasantly surprised. ;)
 

Deeman

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Why does every player think their knowledge is superior to other players? I really don't think this is true in other sports, at least not to the extent that it is in one pocket.

It's just because I know, I know better than the others! :)

DeeMan
 

tylerdurden

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I'm afraid the issue is your perception. There was NEVER any deference between Spasky & Fischer nor is there between any of the best of the best in any field--public press releases don't count. Grudging respect, maybe, but if Jung were alive today he would still believe Freud was an idiot.

I brought up chess, and know nothing about it.... but my analogy (just to make sure my point is clear) would be a guy second guessing fischer who is obviously well well below him in terms of playing ability, and could never beat him. I doubt that happens much, but I feel it happens to an extraordinary amount in pool (one pocket especially).
 

tylerdurden

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LOL.

One of the few things you can say about ALL pool players, IMO, is that they all over-estimate their game.

My thought on why there is a difference on the "right shot", is because (again IMO) of shot confidence.

For example, here in Kentucky, when playing one pocket these guys shoot more banks (and shoot them well) than what I have seen more North where I came from. Again, Billy Incardona explains you have to evaluate the risk verses reward on each shot. I see them shooting what I think is the wrong shot, but they make it.

Dick -

You didnt answer my last post.

Ken

Right, difference in skill set is a part of the equation for sure.

As deeman said though, I think the root of this phenomena is that pool players, for whatever reason, just think their knowledge is superior, no matter what results manifest themselves on the actual playing surface. The next question is, why do they do that?? :confused:
 

Fast Lenny

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All those viewing if you have some questions post them up because I am scheduled to meet up with Dick later later tonight. :)
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I brought up chess, and know nothing about it.... but my analogy (just to make sure my point is clear) would be a guy second guessing fischer who is obviously well well below him in terms of playing ability, and could never beat him. I doubt that happens much, but I feel it happens to an extraordinary amount in pool (one pocket especially).

TD,

You make a good point and it should be the subject of it's own thread, in my opinion.

I do think you are overlooking one major point even though I think I understand your idea; Bobby Fischer being second-guessed by anyone is not comparable to a lesser poolplayer second-guessing a better poolplayer. There is no physical execution in chess beyond moving a piece, there is execution in pool after first envisioning the shot. Pool requires first seeing the shot and then executing it, in chess they are almost the same thing.

I am/was a chess player and have owned several books on the game. The book I owned on Bobby Fischer and his top games & moves would blow you away just as much as Efren and his game would do if you were not initiate in one-pocket. Fischer was so far ahead of everyone else that it was incredible that a man could think like he did. I have seen many games of his where he had a player beaten 20 moves before the game actually ended, that never happens in pool.

It is true however that many top players in other sports give praise to their supposed equals, current or in the past. Maybe in private they would say different but I doubt it. I can't imagine Tiger knocking Jack or Jack knocking Arnold. It would be hard to believe that Ali would knock Louis or Maris would knock Ruth. I think poolplayers, at the top level, know who's the better player and won't knock each other. Many of us at the lower levels can still see a "wrong" shot even if we don't have the talent to best the player who shot it.

TD, start your own thread on this topic, I think it's interesting.

Dennis
 

tylerdurden

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TD,

You make a good point and it should be the subject of it's own thread, in my opinion.

I do think you are overlooking one major point even though I think I understand your idea; Bobby Fischer being second-guessed by anyone is not comparable to a lesser poolplayer second-guessing a better poolplayer. There is no physical execution in chess beyond moving a piece, there is execution in pool after first envisioning the shot. Pool requires first seeing the shot and then executing it, in chess they are almost the same thing.

I am/was a chess player and have owned several books on the game. The book I owned on Bobby Fischer and his top games & moves would blow you away just as much as Efren and his game would do if you were not initiate in one-pocket. Fischer was so far ahead of everyone else that it was incredible that a man could think like he did. I have seen many games of his where he had a player beaten 20 moves before the game actually ended, that never happens in pool.

It is true however that many top players in other sports give praise to their supposed equals, current or in the past. Maybe in private they would say different but I doubt it. I can't imagine Tiger knocking Jack or Jack knocking Arnold. It would be hard to believe that Ali would knock Louis or Maris would knock Ruth. I think poolplayers, at the top level, know who's the better player and won't knock each other. Many of us at the lower levels can still see a "wrong" shot even if we don't have the talent to best the player who shot it.

TD, start your own thread on this topic, I think it's interesting.

Dennis

I'll try to do that in a day or so.

Yes, I mentioned execution may explain away some of it, but I don't feel that can explain it away completely.

The truth is, the top guys do take bad shots, as everybody does. It is the supposed shooting "bad shots" when they are winning that is more the point here.
 

vapros

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Tyler, I'm sure there is another explanation for the attitudes of pool players. Everybody wants to feel like he is Somebody, as if he is one of the best at what he does. His drive in this direction varies from player to player, of course. Efren has no need for it. His place in the pecking order is widely recognized.

If Muhammad Ali, Jack Nicklaus, Ted Williams or Martina Navratilova didn't get any more good ink, adoring praise and exposure in the various media than the top pool players, some of them might have resorted to a bit of crowing, too. In pool, if you don't blow your own horn and beat your own drum, it probably won't get done. That seems to eat at a lot of players, especially after their best days are behind them. To some extent, I think it's understandable, but like most things it can be overdone. And often is.
 

petie

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Professional golfers, those belonging to the PGA, and I'll bet many other commercially successful sports have a code of conduct that they must live by. If they break it, they'll be sanctioned. A long time ago someone decided that professional golf would do better if their accredited players acted like gentlemen instead of street scuffs. My game does not suffer if I acknowledge the positive attributes of my respected opponent instead of acting like a 4th grader on the school yard. Pool players would do well to learn this. The sport would get farther.
 
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