B. Hall vs. E. Reyes 2005 D.C.C.

Tom Wirth · Jul 13, 2013

wincardona said:
Freddie, your reasoning for doing and not doing certain things are profound and note worthy, however, what you're not accepting is that to do some of the things that you say will happen (going through the process of moving) is not reasonable and therefore not applicable.:sorry For instance ..you say that after you choose the soft kick onto the 6ball your response to Tom's response of playing off the 3ball and drifting down table will afford you a two rail option with the 6ball that will also leave the cue ball in a compromised position is absurd Your advice is sound but doesn't apply to the situation imo. Yes, choosing options that allow you to accumulate balls for the purpose of scoring them later is great advice providing that the option allows you to do that. However, in this instance your option affords your opponent to either play off the 3ball and position it on his side, or even play off the 2ball and cross it back up table toward the 3ball.:sorry For these reasons your option doesn't support your advice with the principle of the Marcel Camp "pass shot" It simply doesn't do the job. You asked for a reasonable response to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness with the option you chose, Tom gave you one and you refuse to accept it. That to me puts your high IQ into question :sorry

Toms option with playing off the 7ball and opening up the spotted balls has limited potential as well because of the problems with controlling the cue ball. The cue ball will be going in the direction of the 14ball, and if it stops short of the rail (for any reason) he will offer Reyes the ability to either 'cross bank' the 2ball toward the 3ball or power bank the 15ball into the 2ball and move both balls. However, if he can rest the cue ball near the top rail then and only then is his option a good one.:sorry
Bill, Keep in mind that the reply bank for Efren on the two ball will not be a viable option due to the fact that now the seven ball will also be in the vicinity of Buddy's corner of the table. The option of power banking the fifteen I agree is a possibility and therefore the speed of my shot must be accurate. I know I am very capable of gaging the speed of these shots and if I can do it there is no question Efren can too.

This brings us to the 3ball banking option. This option leaves the cue ball in a position to create problems for your opponent not only in terms of getting away from the possible trap that could result with the shot but also by not affording him to weaken or ..move balls away from your superior position..which will keep the pressure on him. The one rail 3ball bank option is not only an option that could pay quick dividends, it also allows you to invest in the future to collect your dividends at a later time. This is what makes this option imo the best option. This is as I said earlier a good option. IMO It is one of only two options which are of value in this situation.
Carry on. By the way...GOOD MORNING

Dr. Bill

Dennis, can we now see what all the hub-bub was all about?

Tom

fred bentivegna · Jul 13, 2013

wincardona said:
You're correct you are thinking ahead and that's a good thing (usually) However, in this instance by thinking "too far" ahead is your down fall imo. You say that by Reyes moving the 3ball it opens up lanes for subsequent banks but what you and Fred haven't addressed is ...WHAT DO YOU DO AFTER REYES PLAYS OFF THE 3BALL ?????

One of the beauties in playing one pocket is that ..despite the apparent strong advantage a position may suggest, it at times takes only one simple shot by your opponent to negate the strength of the position and force you to change gears. :frus I believe that the simple shot that Tom alluded to with Reyes playing off the 3ball applies to that exact scenario. :sorry

Now that's a horse of a different color.:heh

Dr. Bill

I will always remember this classic line, "A fool convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still." It is a matter of opinion whether that line applies more to you or to me.

Beard

One Pocket Ghost · Jul 13, 2013

Tom Wirth said:
I also played the three rail shot and had no problem with that shot either. The cue ball worked very much like you described. This was an effective shot and I suffered no kiss with any of my attempts. I never made the ball but sometimes the three struck the spotted balls and now I had a crowd working.

Tom

NH Steve said:
I also tried the Ghost's three rail shot and found it worked very well. I never kissed with simple 'lazy' draw and no english -- just enough draw to send the cue ball across the table below that stripe next to the 3. of course the Ghost probably already knew that

Thanx guys for proving to Dr. Billy and any other heretics..

..that there was no "flaw" in the Ghost's thinking..

..:heh..

...

...but, unfortunately you guys caused some collateral damage - you guys killed my prop bet action that I was gonna propose to 'the knocker'..since he posted this about my shot, early in the thread...

------>

SJDinPHX said:
the 3-railer, the kiss, which looks to me, to be almost unavoidable

I was gonna ask him to ship over $1,000 with John, when John comes here next month..and I'll shoot the 3-railer from this exact position, and we'll bet $100 a pop on whether I get a kiss or not..

...unfortunately, I don't think he'll put his money where his big duck bill/mouth is now...

- Ghost

PS, You'd think a guy with his years of experience would know when there's a kiss, and when it's easily avoidable....unless, wait!...do you think maybe he did know the kiss was easily avoidable, but he only posted that there was a kiss in order to knock me and my shot?..

...

PPS, Oh and btw, I didn't take part in the signing of any ceasefire treaty's, cuz I might need to respond if attacked or provoked...:heh

mr3cushion · Jul 13, 2013

One Pocket Ghost said:
Thanx guys for proving to Dr. Billy and any other heretics....that there was no "flaw" in the Ghost's thinking....:heh.....

...but, unfortunately you guys caused some collateral damage - you guys killed my prop bet action that I was gonna propose to 'the knocker'..since he posted this about my shot, early in the thread... ------>

I was gonna ask him to ship over $1,000 with John, when John comes here next month..and I'll shoot the 3-railer from this exact position, and we'll bet $100 a pop on whether I get a kiss or not.....unfortunately, I don't think he'll put his money where his big duck bill/mouth is now...

- Ghost

PS, You'd think a guy with his years of experience would know when there's a kiss, and when it's easily avoidable....unless, wait!...do you think maybe he did know the kiss was easily avoidable, but he only posted that there was a kiss in order to knock me and my shot?.....

PPS, Oh and btw, I didn't take part in the signing of any ceasefire treaty's, cuz I might need to respond if attacked or provoked...:heh

Bruceeeeeeeeee Baby, You Are just toooooooooo funny!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

petie · Jul 13, 2013

Cowboy Dennis said:
The guys who are saying this shot is no good are fantasizing. First of all, for Efren to get a shot at the 3 ball I would have to leave it for him. Then, if I did leave it, do you really think it's that easy for someone to hit the 3 ball without hitting the sidepocket tit and rolling the cueball down by my pocket? I don't think that shot's available from there. I think my opponent would have to hit the 2 which may be a double-kiss, the 7 (on the spot), or the 13 ball. Those shots failing to offer anything he would have to hit the 6 ball and leave me uptable.

Dennis

View attachment 8584

Well what do you know? Buddy took Freddie's advice. Personally, I think he got a bad roll from the pool Gods because I'm sure he was aiming to hit the right side of the 6 instead of the top of it. If he hits the right side, the six blocks Effie from doing almost anything.

lll · Jul 13, 2013

Cowboy Dennis said:
Freddy,

I appreciate that, I truly do, but since SJD's post and my reply to both of you have been deleted but yours remains I'll just have to say "see you later". You have my e-mail if you ever want to correspond.

Dennis

petie said:
Well what do you know? Buddy took Freddie's advice. Personally, I think he got a bad roll from the pool Gods because I'm sure he was aiming to hit the right side of the 6 instead of the top of it. If he hits the right side, the six blocks Effie from doing almost anything.

petie i am not sure that was buddys shot.
dennis it seems has said adios...

.....

i wonder if he will post what buddy shot....

Tom Wirth · Jul 13, 2013

lll said:
petie i am not sure that was buddys shot.
dennis it seems has said adios........
i wonder if he will post what buddy shot....

Larry,
I didn't realize that is what Dennis was saying when he posted that statement but now that you point it out it does seem clear he has elected to drop out. At least for a while. I hope he comes back. Regardless of what some may think of Dennis, he is certainly entertaining and has contributed positively to this site.

Tom

petie · Jul 13, 2013

lll said:
petie i am not sure that was buddys shot.
dennis it seems has said adios........
i wonder if he will post what buddy shot....

Larry, the reason I thought it was his shot is because this view was shown after the one I showed...
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8055&page=3

Oh, BTW you can see I made it home safely last night. Not before calling 911 and being rescued by two forest rangers though.

petie · Jul 13, 2013

Tom Wirth said:
Larry,
I didn't realize that is what Dennis was saying when he posted that statement but now that you point, it out it does seem clear he has elected to drop out. At least for a while. I hope he comes back. Regardless of what some may think of Dennis, he is certainly entertaining and has contributed positively to this site.

Tom

Tom, I guess Dennis figured the touch game was over because it was his football. He must be mad at everybody.

lll · Jul 13, 2013

i wasnt up when the fireworks happened i guess between sjd and freddy
steve as moderator started this thread in the members section
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8059

One Pocket Ghost · Jul 13, 2013

petie said:
Personally, I think he got a bad roll from the pool Gods because I'm sure he was aiming to hit the right side of the 6 instead of the top of it. If he hits the right side, the six blocks Effie from doing almost anything.

I usually don't take the time to critique other shot choices and leaves, but Petie, here I am compelled to.....if Efren, or anybody else for that matter, ends up snuggled against that right side of the 6..it doesn't "block them from doing almost anything"...on the contrary, Efren/they will just gladly shoot the simple, mistake-proof safety of feathering that 6 ball and rolling on down to the foot rail.

- Ghost

fred bentivegna · Jul 13, 2013

A lot of people seem to think that I have sold out snuggling on top of the 6 ball. One thing I do know is that I certainly dont lose it from there. Whatever he does aint gonna be strong, so I will just bunt and lag and adjust until something meaningful shows up.

I know that I am talking to a very select audience, because I seldom see any players having the patience to use 9 or 10 simple safe moves to adjust the table to where they might have a winning chance (like I can). If they cant see a win in 2 moves most guys just quit thinking and start looking for any kind of meaningless harrigan. I dont think 2 or 3 moves ahead, I think two weeks ahead, I'm figuring on what I am going to do to the guy the next time we play!

Beard

fred bentivegna · Jul 13, 2013

I dont want to start anything, but I am curious as to what SJD said that precipitated Steve's abrupt response. ??? I know what I said, it was a really lightweight jibe and I recanted it.

Beard

Tom Wirth · Jul 13, 2013

fred bentivegna said:
A lot of people seem to think that I have sold out snuggling on top of the 6 ball. One thing I do know is that I certainly dont lose it from there. Whatever he does aint gonna be strong, so I will just bunt and lag and adjust until something meaningful shows up.

I know that I am talking to a very select audience, because I seldom see any players having the patience to use 9 or 10 simple safe moves to adjust the table to where they might have a winning chance (like I can). If they cant see a win in 2 moves most guys just quit thinking and start looking for any kind of meaningless harrigan. I dont think 2 or 3 moves ahead, I think two weeks ahead, I'm figuring on what I am going to do to the guy the next time we play!

Beard

Quite honestly Fred, I think you are being stubborn with this one. I understand this is just my opinion and you may be thinking it is Bill, Rob, and myself, who are the stubborn ones, but really Fred. Do you actually believe no one has been looking ahead but you? In this instance your shot only needs to be projected one shot and it is over. Once that three ball is on Efren's side of the table hidden from view and the cue laying tight on the bottom rail you're done. Now you are either sending balls up table and out of play or you are taking a flyer at a bank. And for what? As you said in an earlier post your shot is a stalling move. In other words it does nothing to help your cause and yet you give Efren an opportunity to put you in a dire situation. To add to the mystery of your selection, there are three other options, two of which are simple to execute which have been pointed out during the course of this thread and which have positive expectation, and you choose to ignore each of them.

Tom

gulfportdoc · Jul 13, 2013

Cowboy Dennis said:
View attachment 8572

I'm coming in very late to this discussion. I wanted to try out the 3 ball straight-back to see if it goes. It looked a little iffy to me from the angle.

At any rate, on the wet equipment at Skeeter's, the 3 ball cannot be banked straight-back from this angle because the 3 will not "turn" off the grabby cloth. I'm sure on a nice dry table like at DCC the shot could be made with much slower speed, because it will allow for the 3 to "turn" off the head rail. If the CB were further toward the center of the table the shot probably could be made.

After banking at the 3 straight-back, the CB can be rolled to almost any spot in "The Kitchen", including right on top of the 6.

It also isn't that easy to bank the 3 straight-back even planning NOT to make it, because it wants to hit the deuce. If that happens, it could cause a sell out.

The 3-railer on the 3 is good no matter what, even though the shot is a little more difficult. A guy would have to hit it badly to cause a kiss. He'd also have to guard shooting it long, because if the 3 hit the balls on the spot there could definitely be a sell-out.

It sounds like we may never get the solution which Buddy chose. I looked through my DVDs, but I don't have that match. But, IMO, down 7-0, Buddy is going to do something aggressive here. He likes to shoot anyway, and since he's an excellent bank shot shooter, he's probably going to shoot the 3.

If the 6 is not on the rail, I like rolling up onto it myself, ala Beard. The 14 (by the 3) does bank cross-corner, but it would have to lay perfectly for Reyes to be able to control whitey.

Doc

fred bentivegna · Jul 13, 2013

Tom Wirth said:
Quite honestly Fred, I think you are being stubborn with this one. I understand this is just my opinion and you may be thinking it is Bill, Rob, and myself, who are the stubborn ones, but really Fred. Do you actually believe no one has been looking ahead but you? In this instance your shot only needs to be projected one shot and it is over. Once that three ball is on Efren's side of the table hidden from view and the cue laying tight on the bottom rail you're done. Now you are either sending balls up table and out of play or you are taking a flyer at a bank. And for what? As you said in an earlier post your shot is a stalling move. In other words it does nothing to help your cause and yet you give Efren an opportunity to put you in a dire situation. To add to the mystery of your selection, there are three other options, two of which are simple to execute which have been pointed out during the course of this thread and which have positive expectation, and you choose to ignore each of them.

Tom

This is about the fifth time I am going to say this, unless he lays the 3 ball on the long rail, I am going at worst be able to kick behind it and move the cue ball up table. For Efren to cross the 3 ball and lay it on or very close to the cushion is unlikely, especially if he is trying to put the cue ball on the foot rail. And yes, there is a scratch possibility.

I really dont want to make this a contest (except perhaps with Dr Bill), I am just stating what I would do, and would have confidence in doing it and knowing what plan I would try and implement from there.

That is not to say that some of those other options couldnt work out, they could, I just like the percentages of my option.

And just to remind everybody, there is no, I repeat no, option that would win the game no matter how well executed the shot was. My way might take longer to win, but I sure aint gonna lose for awhile, and he sure aint gonna instantly beat me crossing the 3 ball.

Beard

onepockethacker · Jul 13, 2013

fred bentivegna said:
This is about the fifth time I am going to say this, unless he lays the 3 ball on the long rail, I am going at worst be able to kick behind it and move the cue ball up table. For Efren to cross the 3 ball and lay it on or very close to the cushion is unlikely, especially if he is trying to put the cue ball on the foot rail. And yes, there is a scratch possibility.

I really dont want to make this a contest (except perhaps with Dr Bill), I am just stating what I would do, and would have confidence in doing it and knowing what plan I would try and implement from there.

That is not to say that some of those other options couldnt work out, they could, I just like the percentages of my option.

And just to remind everybody, there is no, I repeat no, option that would win the game no matter how well executed the shot was. My way might take longer to win, but I sure aint gonna lose for awhile, and he sure aint gonna instantly beat me crossing the 3 ball.

Beard

I must say all this back and forth and different opinions and shot selections from alot of good players is what makes one pocket the greatest pool game. Different styles and abilities really make these WWYD's awesome. It really doesn't matter what Buddy shot.. Just because he shot it doesn't make it the gospel and correct shot. It just means it was the right shot selection for him. The key is everyone giving their opinions and at the same time listening to and learning from what other people suggest. I really enjoy WWYD's like this one because we are really dissecting all the options. I want to thank everyone who responded in this thread and I respect all of your selections.
Thank you Rob..............................................................................................

P.S. You all can get 10 to 6 and the breaks LMFAO

Just kidding

mr3cushion · Jul 13, 2013

onepockethacker said:
I must say all this back and forth and different opinions and shot selections from alot of good players is what makes one pocket the greatest pool game. Different styles and abilities really make these WWYD's awesome. It really doesn't matter what Buddy shot.. Just because he shot it doesn't make it the gospel and correct shot. It just means it was the right shot selection for him. The key is everyone giving their opinions and at the same time listening to and learning from what other people suggest. I really enjoy WWYD's like this one because we are really dissecting all the options. I want to thank everyone who responded in this thread and I respect all of your selections.
Thank you Rob..............................................................................................

P.S. You all can get 10 to 6 and the breaks LMFAO
Just kidding

I'll take it! :lol:lol:lol

Now this is what forum interaction is supposed to be.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

Tom Wirth · Jul 13, 2013

Understood and accepted, Fred.

tylerdurden · Jul 13, 2013

onepockethacker said:
I must say all this back and forth and different opinions and shot selections from alot of good players is what makes one pocket the greatest pool game. Different styles and abilities really make these WWYD's awesome. It really doesn't matter what Buddy shot.. Just because he shot it doesn't make it the gospel and correct shot. It just means it was the right shot selection for him. The key is everyone giving their opinions and at the same time listening to and learning from what other people suggest. I really enjoy WWYD's like this one because we are really dissecting all the options. I want to thank everyone who responded in this thread and I respect all of your selections.
Thank you Rob..............................................................................................

P.S. You all can get 10 to 6 and the breaks LMFAO
Just kidding

Did you just come off as diplomatic?

B. Hall vs. E. Reyes 2005 D.C.C.

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