An old pool room debate at LeCue

Just throwing it out there, because we used to argue back and forth about this in the pool room when we weren't playing. As I remember it, no one ever completely proved his case, whichever side he was on. Both are very tough to master.


Here's the wdyt ( what do you think )
Which individual sport is the hardest to master, i.e. top 1 thru 10 level player?

(1) a professional golfer
(2) a professional one pocket player

Remember, gotta make it to the recognized top 10 in the world.

I want to take a straw poll just to see if it's as divided as it used to be.

You may simply cast your vote, with or without reasoning, but it was always more fun to try and prove your point.

Hey, I'm 72, with lots of time on my hands!

Go ahead and vote, I'm the one that looks stupid for posting this! Lol

Hey Jeff, just for your future information, when you start a new thread, you can choose to add a poll as an option (it's near the bottom of the screen when starting a thread).

gulfportdoc said:

To make it into the top ten? I'm not sure that one-pocket would even be in the top ten of difficulty.

Golf would win this comparison, hands down. There are hundreds of thousands of good golfers in the world. There are truck loads of money in golf; and to even scratch the surface is brutal. Are there even a thousand good 1P players?

~Doc

Click to expand...

Doc

Good isn't the operative word on this wdyt, great is, top 10 in the world. Are you saying it would be much easier to make it to the top 10 playing golf because of the money offered?

Or are you saying it would be harder?

Jeff sparks said:

Just throwing it out there, because we used to argue back and forth about this in the pool room when we weren't playing. As I remember it, no one ever completely proved his case, whichever side he was on. Both are very tough to master.


Here's the wdyt ( what do you think )
Which individual sport is the hardest to master, i.e. top 1 thru 10 level player?

(1) a professional golfer
(2) a professional one pocket player

Remember, gotta make it to the recognized top 10 in the world.

I want to take a straw poll just to see if it's as divided as it used to be.

You may simply cast your vote, with or without reasoning, but it was always more fun to try and prove your point.

Hey, I'm 72, with lots of time on my hands!

Go ahead and vote, I'm the one that looks stupid for posting this! Lol

Click to expand...

Obviously the same because exactly 10 of each makes it.

On the other hand:

There are more REALLY good golfers to pass on the way to the top;
Golf requires more in physical ability;

One pocket requires more experience, knowledge, tactical and strategic thinking and decision-making.

The two seem roughly equal regarding the percentage of the population with the natural ability to excel given the right preparation.

I see the question as asking which sport would allow a higher percentage of the population a chance to achieve top 10 status, and on that scale I rate them as too close to call.

To a different question: Which sport is more difficult to achieve a reasonable degree of competence (just under shortstop/3-5 handicap) I'd say pool in general is easier than golf.

(But hitting major league pitching is harder than either) :heh

When they can bank one off a tree, I'll agree golf is tougher.
Rod
P.S. In the old days everyone could get golf lessons, but no one gave pool lessons.

Golf is tougher because there are so many more people playing it at a professional level. How many professional one pocket players are there? 250? 150? Fewer? The money in golf creates an incentive for many more to try to make it their profession, so you have to be that much better to distinguish yourself in such a field.

The best one pocket player in the world struggles to make a middle class living with his great skill. It is a subspeciality within cue sports and many of the best cue sports players do not play one pocket. There is just very little incentive for other cue sports greats to specialize in one pocket because it is not played much outside the United States. When is the last one pocket tournament held outside the United States? Has there ever been one on a professional scale?

Taking skill aside, the sheer number of people you have to get through in golf to be top 10 makes it much more difficult. Top 10 in golf fluctuates every year. Does the top 10 in one pocket do that?

I have no doubt that golf is harder to master, mechanically, because of the many more moving parts and the duration of each action. Mentally, I also have no doubt that one-pocket is much harder, because of the multitude of options before the player. Golf is similar to nine-ball, in that your next shot is prescribed for you. All you need is for the caddy to give you the right club.

Easy answer. Formula 1 race car driver. You need about 200Million per season (note link is in British Pounds but you get the idea).

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...acing-in-formula-1-is-spending-out-of-control

We haven't even talked about the golfer's need to be able play all the different courses and conditions. Pool players whine when it's humid or the table isn't clean. Imagine playing one pocket in a light rain, with 15 mph winds and it's 45 degrees? Or in 105 degree heat, with tables so fast you can't stop your ball?

In a one pocket match, you are playing one opponent. The golfer is playing the whole field, so he can't push all the balls up table and be conservative. He must play hard every shot because somebody could catch fire behind him and leave him in the dust if he just decides par is ok every hole.

I love one pocket like the rest of us, but I am under no illusion about what it takes to be an elite golfer. You don't see any 60 year old golfers in the top 10.

Jeff in my opinion golf is the more difficult of the two sports to play in general as well as breaking into the top 10.

I played State-ams, mid-ams, city match play etc... I put a lot of time into the game. There are just so many variables that need to be accounted for on most shots from environmental conditions (wind, rain, temperature, altitude) your lie, your ball (mud on it), time of day( greens slow down later in the day), your physical condition...I could go on. To add insult to injury....you have to play your foul balls!

In the end, they are both are wonderful games that will stay with you a lifetime.

I will leave you with a quote from Arnold Palmer which hits home with me as I on the beginning of the 1P learning curve.

"Golf is deceptively simple, yet endlessly complicated"

Hardmix

Pool golf

Pool golf

Picked up golf about 8 yrs. Bought me some Taylor made Irons and a Taylor made driver, very nice driver. Bought it when I first started playing. The only club I can hit straight with occasionally, LOL.

I'm still working on breaking a hundred, that's on my bucket list, LOL. But no doubt it is a tough game to conquer so to speak.

Everyone's comments on this subject are worthy and most of you make sense
but it doesn't take a great athlete to play either game.

John Daly and the Walrus both one majors on the tour, one of them was a three hundred pounder, great golfer though.

Ronnie Allen carried a little extra pounds and was the best one pocket player I've ever known.

One of his strengths was his ability to run eight and out. This came from his nine ball game. Ronnie was a devastating nine ball player but he loved one pocket just like myself.

Weenie Beenie was a great one holer, he had great run out ability.

If the money in pool was half what golf was you couldn't get an open table most days at any pool room and I would still be playing today, LOL.

Money will produce top players in either sport.

Golf comes easy to some people where pool comes easy to others.

Myself I'm working on the senior tour, just as soon as I break a 100, LOL.

androd said:

When they can bank one off a tree, I'll agree golf is tougher.
Rod
P.S. In the old days everyone could get golf lessons, but no one gave pool lessons.

Click to expand...

Funny you should mention that Rod !..True story, one time I was playing a friendly round of golf (for a zillion $$$)...We are dead even going into a very short par 4, 18th hole.. My opponent is on the green in two, about 30 ft. away..I only lay one, but I am almost flush up against a tree, about 20 ft. from the green.

Naturally, the pool player comes out in me, so I swing a 9 iron into the tree, and it caroms off gracefully, floats up in the air, and lands 2 ft. from the pin !..I'm lovin' it !..That is until he holes the 30 footer for a birdie, and I miss my 2 footer to tie !..Golf can be a cruel game.

I also argued that golf was the more difficult sport to conquer. Many many more variables on the golf course and with the human body. There are more top players in golf now because of the prestige and the money, wasn't always that way. Before Palmer, only a handful played and they all had other jobs during the off season just to make ends meet.

However, one pocket is also a very tough game to master. Lots of people play at the game, few can really play it. Granted, there would be many more top players if the game held less tarnish and more money. The game has always been fascinating to me and others who understand just how difficult it really is to be one of the few who can really play it.

when your opponent can put you in trouble in golf, it will be as difficult.

mobilemike said:

when your opponent can put you in trouble in golf, it will be as difficult.

Click to expand...

You opponent can put you in trouble. All square, sudden death, 175 yds from the pin, wind, water, glass green that undulates and your opponent sticks it 10 feet from the pin. Try and get inside or you loose $1.8 Million first place. It happened last sunday at the Players Championship.

Being a top 10 pro golfer is far more difficult but it is not a fair comparison. Because of the strategy and options, I think one pocket is the most interesting and difficult cue game. That in itself says allot.

I compare One pocket to chess more than a physical sport. It is true there is a physical component to one pocket, but what distinguishes the good from the great is not whether player x can make this shot and you can't'; it is the strategic component.

One pocket stands alone in cue sports because of its deep strategic aspect. That's the tonic that is so addictive. Nine ball tells you what to do next. Eight ball has more strategy and straight pool has even more. But one pocket incorporates all the aspects of pool into one game and becomes a show case of your talent, experience and intellect.

Like chess, you can play it a lifetime and still learn. Like chess, it rewards strategic thinking and subtle play. Like chess, you must pay attention to your opponents play every move.

mobilemike said:

when your opponent can put you in trouble in golf, it will be as difficult.

Click to expand...

Welcome, M.T.!!

~Doc

mobilemike said:

when your opponent can put you in trouble in golf, it will be as difficult.

Click to expand...

Welcome, thanx, I agree 100%.
Rod.
P.S. I played both, shot 88 in a couple of months. String the putts together, they'ed reach to the back of the parking lot of the pool room.
Rod.
P.S. Quit soon after, realized I was doing everything wrong. Never played a round without gambling. Hard to fix "go for what you know"

androd said:

I played both, shot 88 in a couple of months.

Click to expand...

Since you didn't play golf long I'll mention some stuff you probably don't know.

"I shot 88" is kinda like saying, "I won five games of one pocket in a row." In other words, "On what course?" would be as important as "Against whom" in 1P.

I shot 65 a couple of times on a pretty easy par 70, and I've had trouble breaking 90 on a couple of courses set up for a PGA tour event.

Most of the people who routinely shoot in the high 80s on their home course would have trouble breaking 100 on some PGA tour courses, 110 on others, and 120 on courses set up for the US OPEN.

The guys I gambled with would lose all their money shooting 88 on the course where I shot 65, and win all the money on a PGA Tour course.

A "shortstop" in golf would average mid-70s on most country club courses, and most of those courses are more difficult than most public courses.

Talking about "hard to master" as Jeff phrased it initially (which is a little different question than becoming top 10 in the world because of the much larger number of people trying in golf) I'd say that if you put a golf club in the hands of one typical 16-year-old and a pool cue in the hands of another, they'd have about an equal chance to "master" their game... One in a thousand? too close to call, IMO.