Alex v. Scott: The Good, the Bad, and the ...

demonrho said:

I hope you folks realize the game between Alex and Scott was not a tournament. It was a private gambling match and we were privileged that they agreed to let it be streamed.

So, it is ridiculous to start crying about how the players were dressed. But you should realize that Scott was "dressed to the nines." What he wore is considered the epitome of style these days. Tuxedos are as outlandishly outdated as top hats and capes.

What killed me is when some idiots on the stream chat complained about One Pocket Rich dropping a couple of innocent "f" bombs in his commentary. We were getting some world class insight into one pocket until Rich got yanked from the commentary.

It's time for anyone in pool who's main concern is dress codes and policing language to get out of pool and take up badminton or golf.

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And you wonder why pool can't get many corporate sponsers! :frus

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

demonrho said:

I hope you folks realize the game between Alex and Scott was not a tournament. It was a private gambling match and we were privileged that they agreed to let it be streamed.

So, it is ridiculous to start crying about how the players were dressed. But you should realize that Scott was "dressed to the nines." What he wore is considered the epitome of style these days. Tuxedos are as outlandishly outdated as top hats and capes.

What killed me is when some idiots on the stream chat complained about One Pocket Rich dropping a couple of innocent "f" bombs in his commentary. We were getting some world class insight into one pocket until Rich got yanked from the commentary.

It's time for anyone in pool who's main concern is dress codes and policing language to get out of pool and take up badminton or golf.

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I don't think anyone here meant to offend you, or Scott, or Alex anymore than I think language & dress codes out weigh their concern for pool. FWIW, I tend to be a fan of Scott, while my wife fell in love with Alex (sans hat) at the 2011 Open. She's kind enough to loan me her autographed Pagulayn T-shirt for the wall next to my table.

Apologies if anyone was offended.:sorry

Once it was agreed to stream the match, it was no longer a "private match" and some of us tend to think some of the old ways were better.

demonrho said:

I hope you folks realize the game between Alex and Scott was not a tournament. It was a private gambling match and we were privileged that they agreed to let it be streamed.

So, it is ridiculous to start crying about how the players were dressed. But you should realize that Scott was "dressed to the nines." What he wore is considered the epitome of style these days. Tuxedos are as outlandishly outdated as top hats and capes.

What killed me is when some idiots on the stream chat complained about One Pocket Rich dropping a couple of innocent "f" bombs in his commentary. We were getting some world class insight into one pocket until Rich got yanked from the commentary.

It's time for anyone in pool who's main concern is dress codes and policing language to get out of pool and take up badminton or golf.

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Demonhro,

You are really missing the whole point of what is being discussed here...It is not about this one Alex/Scott match...It is about how 90% of the pro's have decided to market themselves..Surely you realize, potential sponsor's may be watching, and evaluating the feasability of investing in something like this ?...One of the first things they look at, is 'public acceptance'...It just ain't there, due to the things many of us pointed out...Granted, its all fine for guys like us, sweating a few hours of a big match at the local joint..We can all deal with the language, and the sloppy dress...But, that ain't the BIG turn-off !..Our audience is miniscule to begin with, we need to grow it, NOT alienate it..Your attitude is "warts and all", and that worked somewhat with Poker, but there is millions riding on the turn of a card. We don't have that going for us...Therefore, IMO, it ain't gonna work, by presenting our top players looking like they just came from the goodwill store...! Ask Joe Rogan...:sorry

PS..I personally love Rich's knowledgable style of commentating a one pocket match..But until ESPN, or Rogan himself, are allowed the use of 'off color' language, in any form.... it will NOT be accepted, by mainstream sponsors...Period ! ...I'm not always right, but I am on this !

mr3cushion said:

And you wonder why pool can't get many corporate sponsers! :frus

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"

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Pool is never going to make it as a "squeaky clean" sport in the U.S. and will never attract any serious corporate sponsors if it is being marketed as such. Witness all these years of the pool industry desperately trying to attract sponsorship to no avail.

SJDinPHX said:

Demonhro,

You are really missing the whole point ...Your attitude is "warts and all", and that worked somewhat with Poker...But, it ain't gonna work presenting our top players looking like they just came from the goodwill store...! ...!

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But, SJD, you missed my point. In the eyes of today's youth, Scott was dressed in consummate high fashion, to the same effect that a tuxedo would have had on your generation. (Or, would it have been top hats and capes )

Demon old friend..I did not overlook that fact...Scott is my bud, but he is severely challenged with his choice of [sic] 'finery' for ANY occasion...Alex (the winner by the way) just didn't give a sh*t...Really, dont you think both of them would have looked better, to potential sponsors, (and for the image of the game) if they were dressed as they were in their last DCC match ?... Especially being as they both knew, it was being streamed world-wide ???????

PS..Actually, powdered wigs, and pantaloons were in vogue, for pool player's in my youth...If anyone dared to insult the integrity of the game, as Scott did,
it would have been pistols, at 20 paces.....Oh, for the good old day's.

demonrho said:

But, SJD, you missed my point. In the eyes of today's youth, Scott was dressed in consummate high fashion, to the same effect that a tuxedo would have had on your generation. (Or, would it have been top hats and capes )

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This mentality is counter productive if the goal is to encourage personal sponsorship and sponsorship for profitable, long lasting pool tours. Those corporations and individuals with potential sponsorship dollars do not see "high fashion" in the way Scott was dressed. But Scott's attire alone is not the point. It is the over all appearance and behavior of so many "professional players" of today. I don't mean to put my brand of fashion on the pool world. I just want those players who are considered highly visible in the pool world to take a long look at the posibilities which still exist for them if they just see things through the eyes of those who could help the cause of this great game. Sponsorship dollars will not be coming from the young or anyone else who is in agreement that Scott was "dressed to the nines".

Right or wrong, pool has a stigma to overcome. Don't you feel we all must do our part to change public perception for the good of the game and compromise some of our personal preferences at least where it comes to making fashion statements? "Top hats and capes?" No one here has suggested anything remotely as absurd as that.

Tom

Cary said:

I have no idea how to do double quotes (maybe SJD will show me some day), but this is actually responding to two posts. Re: the dress of the poor folks back in the day, my grandfather was first a painter, later an independent painting contractor. When actually painting for a living he wore starched & ironed whites--paint spots and all. I remember my grandmother soaking them in tubs of starch and bluing. Later he wore a sport shirt & tie during Houston's summers, adding a sport coat or suit in the winter. He wore a Stetson fedora with either, always, when outside. Also, when I first started in construction nearly 50 years ago, even laborers changed into their good clothes before leaving work. They weren't about to get on the bus in their work clothes.

In August 1966 I went to a Mosconi exhibition in the Florida Keys (I think it was Big Pine Key but it was long, long ago). He wore a suit and tie during the exhibiton, in the non-airconditioned room. Afterwards, he loosened his tie and played a 14.1 money match with one of the local conchs from Key West, still wearing the coat.

P.S. He lost, believe it or not, puling up after the fourth game, having won the first and then losing three straight (all at 150-0). He really didn't look happy about it either.

P.S.S. I didn't know until years later that Mosconi had officially "retired" from competitive pool in 1958.

P.S.S.S. Just for you Sonny, I watched my grandfather pummel a guy half his age to supine unconciousness for cussing in front of my brother and I (we were 12 & 13 at the time). The guy should have heeded the first warning. My, how times have changed.

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If you are talking about quoting two or more different people and then responding to them it is very easy. Just look to the right of the quote button at the bottom of their post and click those quotation marks. When you click the quotation marks, it should turn orange. Then go click all the different posts the same way that you want to be responding to. Then just click the post reply button under there at the bottom left and they should all appear in your reply that you are formulating.

I think Alex dressed ok the times I saw him. I was just saying that I never could wear a cap like that and play worth a shit. I kept adjusting it and fooling with it and seeing the bill of the thing when I got down etc. As far as Scott, that was just my personal thing. Like I said, I would wear it around the house, even with people over here, but I wouldn't even go get the mail or put out the trash wearing some old bullshit like that. Lots of people wouldn't wear what I would wear either so. As far as cussing, that was so lame when they kicked Rich out of the booth like that. I was enjoying the match and his com really good. That was a real good free stream. The players did not want extra lighting which was very understandable but I watched until AP got up six games and then had to go somewhere but I was chatting and giving people hell. I was watching Reno and talking to Marty H and other on that other chat at the same time and it was fun. That part about your grandfather reminds me when I would cuss around my father. He would say "Watch ya mouth. If you say that word again you'll find yourself waking up in the middle of next week sometimes" I never tested him on it. I'm a one warning type person myself...

demonrho said:

But, SJD, you missed my point. In the eyes of today's youth, Scott was dressed in consummate high fashion, to the same effect that a tuxedo would have had on your generation. (Or, would it have been top hats and capes )

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lol, in what alternate universe is Scott dressed "in consummate high fashion" other than for those who play GTAIV or just hang out in the "hood?" I mean, really?

I play in pool halls all over the country and even in Scott's home room a year ago (Kolby's) I have never seen anyone dressed that way. Maybe poker players can get away with that, which is where I suspect his "fashion" inspiration comes from, but pool players are not there yet and can ill afford such faux pas.

Let Scott walk into any bank, corporation, or board room dressed that way, and pitch them a sponsorship deal and see how far he gets. Because, in effect, when the game is streamed this way, that's what's happening, and he is not doing anyone any favors. No one, other than the 3C guy, is talking about tuxedoes. How about: nice leather shoes, dress slacks, and a decent shirt? We don't need to talk about extremes, just something you could walk into any half decent restaurant (other than one in Vegas) wearing and not be told to come back when you grow up. It was not just a private match -- it was streamed and for better or worse (worse in this case) Scott, great player though he is, looked like a foo.

Lou Figueroa

Then clothing/appearance wise, I guess you guys probably don't think that this pic of Jesse Bowman was a good choice to use on this poster, advertising/showcasing this upcoming Gambling/Exhibition Match............:lol ------>

SJDinPHX said:

Demon old friend..I did not overlook that fact...Scott is my bud, but he is severely challenged with his choice of [sic] 'finery' for ANY occasion...Alex (the winner by the way) just didn't give a sh*t...Really, dont you think both of them would have looked better, to potential sponsors, (and for the image of the game) if they were dressed as they were in their last DCC match ?... Especially being as they both knew, it was being streamed world-wide ???????

PS..Actually, powdered wigs, and pantaloons were in vogue, for pool player's in my youth...If anyone dared to insult the integrity of the game, as Scott did,
it would have been pistols, at 20 paces.....Oh, for the good old day's.

Click to expand...

I thought Scott was dressed to the "nines". Every gangbanger n tha hood would love to have his outfit. Personally, I would have to be dead to wear it and even then I might get pissed and haunt you the rest of your life. The thing with Alex's cap is going down the same road. Sponsors are NOT going to sponsor "hood" attire. Maybe Addias or Nike should be sponsoring pool, they promote this garbage, certainly not any other "mainstream" company would go near it. It really doesn't matter. If pool players are willing to play tournaments for $5000 prize just so they can dress like beggars or gang bangers, its their game. Myself, I would love for the game to show a little more respect in the dress code. What does a really nice dress shirt at Macy's cost? $22-40. on sale every day. I have seen top players at the DCC play looking like they just crawled out of the garbage can on the TV tables in the finals.
A few years back, 8,9, I was a referee at one of the Sands tournaments. I made everyone abide by the dress code. Dress shirt, pants. If I saw them warming up without the proper dress, I told them before the match began, change. No exceptions. What's the big deal about looking nice? Being clean? It used to be a badge of honor to look nice.
As far as Rich during the stream, I only had trouble with his eating while streaming. NO ONE told him about the language before the match. No ground rules. Besides being one of the most knowledgable players in the game, he is a great human being and a great family man. He and I have done a few match streams together and we always try to watch our language. We will talk about it before the match, during and have a great time.
Personally I have invested a lot of money for equipment to stream, and I have invested a lot of energy streaming. Its not easy. But I love pool even though my level of play isn't what it used to me. My injury prevents me from being at the stream 100% of the time and it takes at least two people to have a voice over the match the whole time. People love it generally but there are those who find fault with it even though its free. I do it for them. NOT

BTW As a person, I like Scott. He is very personable and generally very courteous and polite.

How about: nice leather shoes, dress slacks, and a decent shirt?

Yes! This can also be accomplished while the player stays very comfortable as well.

I mentioned being dressed nice and its possible advantages to getting backers earlier. May or may not be true..... but as Lou mentioned, something like loaning money is a no doubter. If you walk up to a guy in a pool hall and ask him for a c-note, if you are dressed nice your odds go WAY up, just no doubt about it. In fact, presentation is almost everything. Look no further than sushi for a great example.

On another note, I don't blame the players in many ways. They are kind of giving back at a commensurate rate that pool has given to them - in other words, they hardly put in any effort at all, and perhaps justifiably so.

I find some of the comments amusing in this thread, you might think you guys were never young. I am sure back in the day you all wore the style of the time and the old people of that day frowned upon it just like they frowned upon people with long hair and bell bottoms in the 70s and it goes on and on. Perhaps one day when I am older I will scoff at what people wear, I actually already do in some ways with the skinny jeans and chick cut haircuts the boys are wearing these days but I understand things change. The truth is Scott and his outfit are in style, price on his little getup was around $250-300 give or take a dollar. I personally would not wear it, not my thing but then again he would not wear my tattoos or my clothing style, to each their own.

We were lucky to watch the match but truth is neither cared if it was streamed so why should they go out of their way to impress us by dressing in a button up shirt, slacks and shiny shoes. They dressed comfortably in their normal attire thinking about playing a big money match and not about a live stream with a bunch of us watching. I don't care what they wear, I just wanna watch top notch pool. Sponsors do not care about a one pocket gambling match played in the wee hours of the morning IMO but maybe I am wrong, let me rephrase that, big time sponsors with real money do not care about that.

I actually cannot believe we are talking about what pool players are wearing, you guys act like they were dressed like bums in stained up shirts and ripped jeans with a sweat stained hat on or something, haha. It was a last minute gambling match we were lucky to sweat and not a major tournament that has any shot of being televised or sponsored. I hope they both read this and say no thanks to all of us next time a streamer ask to broadcast there action, the stream does not benefit them at all and even if they were in tuxedos that would not change a damn thing. I think a good deal of you old timers were used to growing up wearing button up shirts and slacks with shoes, its a different world now, kids these days only wear that on holidays and pictures days. Times change, live with it, when you are in the pool room in your button up plaid shirt, polyester pants and your Members Only jacket you bought 20 years ago, the people think you shop at Goodwill. :sorry

P.S. As for One Pocket Rich cursing, please, who cares about the F word these days when worse things are on regular TV. The people watching were not paying a dime, they were watching an after hours gambling match with two great players and I highly doubt anyone under age was watching at that hour and if they were then that is the least mom and dad need to worry about. So if the F word offends people watching this type of thing then stay the F out of the F'ing poolroom. :lol

Oh and I wanted to say I do not think Scott was dressed to the nines, Scott in tournament matches usually dresses well with a polo shirt, slacks and nice shoes. I also want to say that although I am a young kid to you guys at only 33, I am still respectful of all adults worthy of it. I carry old ladies groceries given the chance, open and hold doors for people, I help and look out for the old, sick and weak, have basic manners and so on. I dress for the occasion but do enjoying getting dressed up as long as I have some place to go. I would want to be in something comfortable playing an ahead set for that long is all I am saying, carry on you old SOBs! :lol

P.S. I still wuv you all respectfully.

Personally, I think dressing the way golfers do could work for pool players; in other words, comfortable attire to play pool. The tuxedos and suits, fuggetaboutit. You do need to be able to move around the table, reach, bend, twist, et cetera.

I have mixed feelings about the shoes. These days, some sneakers, tennis shoes, athletic shoes -- whatever you want to call them -- cost upwards of 2- and $300. That doesn't mean, though, that they are comfortable, either.

A good rubber-soled shoe that prevents one from slipping is key. In this regard, I would suggest no open shoes like flip-flips, thongs, or jail slippers. As long as the shoe ties, whether athletic shoe or leather, that should suffice.

Who was it that said -- and I'm sure somebody on here will remember -- dressing a pool player in a tuxedo is like putting whipped cream on a hot dog. :lol

Fast Lenny said:

I find some of the comments amusing in this thread, you might think you guys were never young. I am sure back in the day you all wore the style of the time and the old people of that day frowned upon it just like they frowned upon people with long hair and bell bottoms in the 70s and it goes on and on. Perhaps one day when I am older I will scoff at what people wear, I actually already do in some ways with the skinny jeans and chick cut haircuts the boys are wearing these days but I understand things change. The truth is Scott and his outfit are in style, price on his little getup was around $250-300 give or take a dollar. I personally would not wear it, not my thing but then again he would not wear my tattoos or my clothing style, to each their own.

We were lucky to watch the match but truth is neither cared if it was streamed so why should they go out of their way to impress us by dressing in a button up shirt, slacks and shiny shoes. They dressed comfortably in their normal attire thinking about playing a big money match and not about a live stream with a bunch of us watching. I don't care what they wear, I just wanna watch top notch pool. Sponsors do not care about a one pocket gambling match played in the wee hours of the morning IMO but maybe I am wrong, let me rephrase that, big time sponsors with real money do not care about that.

I actually cannot believe we are talking about what pool players are wearing, you guys act like they were dressed like bums in stained up shirts and ripped jeans with a sweat stained hat on or something, haha. It was a last minute gambling match we were lucky to sweat and not a major tournament that has any shot of being televised or sponsored. I hope they both read this and say no thanks to all of us next time a streamer ask to broadcast there action, the stream does not benefit them at all and even if they were in tuxedos that would not change a damn thing. I think a good deal of you old timers were used to growing up wearing button up shirts and slacks with shoes, its a different world now, kids these days only wear that on holidays and pictures days. Times change, live with it, when you are in the pool room in your button up plaid shirt, polyester pants and your Members Only jacket you bought 20 years ago, the people think you shop at Goodwill. :sorry

P.S. As for One Pocket Rich cursing, please, who cares about the F word these days when worse things are on regular TV. The people watching were not paying a dime, they were watching an after hours gambling match with two great players and I highly doubt anyone under age was watching at that hour and if they were then that is the least mom and dad need to worry about. So if the F word offends people watching this type of thing then stay the F out of the F'ing poolroom. :lol

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I can't believe you used the "Members Only " jacket card.
I love that jacket!
But then, I am, "Billy Jackets"
I had a great time playing you the other night bud, thanks for the games.

So we got a guy with a punk hat look and anotha' dressed in orange like a boxer on his way into the ring, they ain't got nothing on Bugs Rucker in PINK.

I have read this thread and i see both sides of view. The bottom line is Professional Pool in this country is so disorganized that nobody really gives a crap. This is more like which came first the chicken or the egg...The players are like im dedicating my life to a game that doesn't pay anything so why should I dress up.. for what? The older players have the point of view from when pool was at least somewhat successful in this country.. If you look at the old black and white films the players wore tuxedos and even the fans were dressed nice BUT pool never did really take off in this country.. For whatever reason POOL missed its window to explode in this country and I think the movie The Hustler ( one of my all time favorite movies) had something to do with it. As great a movie that it was, it did not focus on the tournament side of pool with everyone dressed up all nice. Instead it focused on the gambling and seedy side of pool. The alcohol, hustling, thumb breaking etc... I have always believed that this movie made sponsors scared to jump in and kinda gave pool a black eye to the public. Now you have NFL, MLB, NBA, PGA, TENNIS, NASCAR NHL, etc. etc. etc.. ALL the major sponsors are tied up.. If you think a potential sponsor is going to put money into POOL In ITS CURRENT STATE over one of those other sports you are insane!!.... SO WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? we can all sit around brow beating it to death and put the pros down OR we can spend that same energy and try to come up with a solution ( if there is one). This all comes back to needing ONE Pool organization in this country. Look at everyone of those other sports I listed... ALL of them have one MAJOR organization and then they may have smaller minor leagues and such. The problem in this country is that there are 10 different ones vying to be in charge, with their little "cliques". Take BONUS ball.. A guy comes in with some big money and its the same thing as usual, one of the "cliques get together and gobble him up and shit him out!! The guy with the money has no clue what he is doing in pool, and the same players as USUAL really don't give a shit about him or his game but its an easy payday. So what is the result going to be... ZERO!!!! Now imagine if you had ONE organization... Greg Sullivan as President ( he has done more for POOL in this country the last 10 years than anyone) then you have a board of directors. You have the Pro Players sign contracts..( part of which includes a dress code for when they are playing ANYWHERE they may be seen. Get EVERYONE on the same page working toward the same goal instead of how it always is in this country (personal gain) You have drug testing also. If players test positive they are suspended.JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER MAJOR SPORT DOES instead of just accepting the drug use as we do now.. You get all this in place and now you have a GOOD product you can show to sponsors... You get sponsors interested.. In my opinion Greg Sullivan is the ONLY guy in POOL that the players MIGHT put all their bullshit differences aside and listen to. Greg knows what he is doing!! If we dont get organized EVERYONE on here can keep doing the same old bitching that has already been done about the current players dress, how great the "good old days were" etc. etc. etc. POOL will NEVER go anywhere in this country. All the other sports in this country were able to put personal differences aside and look at THE BIG PICTURE, for whatever reason Pool never has... One last thing... Do people realize what a marketing GOLD MINE we have RIGHT NOW? Shane Van Boeing is the best player in the country right now. Clean cut, dresses nice, as far as I know drug free, good looking ( I assume), polite, and he is deaf!! If Pro Pool was organized right now the media, general public, The TALK SHOWS !! would all eat this story up. One organization, Greg Sullivan in charge, and Shane as our own version of Tiger Woods.. That is how Pool in this country could take off.. The other golfers resented Tiger Woods when he burst onto the scenes getting all that attention, meanwhile BECAUSE of Tiger all the other pros are making more money than they could have dreamed of. If the Pro Pool Players could put their jealousy aside for one freaking minute they could ALL benefit from Shane

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