Larry Nevel vs. Gabe Owen 2008 DCC Finals

Cowboy Dennis

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
From
Detroit,Michigan
Gabe has pocket 'A' and he has six balls. It's the first game of the match. It's Gabe's shot. What would you do?

The three balls on the spot are inline.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs@[/CUETABLE]
 

Frank Almanza

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,569
From
Upland, California
Aha. This is a shot I learned from another thread here and it was suggested by Billy I. It works very good.

Shoot the bank on the 11 ball to your hole and the cue ball will hit the 2 ball pretty full to drive it across the table to your side. The 13 ball will head toward the head rail while the cue ball goes to the head rail and goes to the other side of the table for a good shot on the 2 ball. The shot works very well and I have used it a couple of times in the last few weeks.
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,715
From
Ghosttown
The bank shot choice that Frank is talking about - sliding down the balls with inside english and then back down-table, has been around forever, and is available...that said...

Some people will say they shoot the same shot no matter who their playing or what the circumstances are...I disagree with that thinking 100%....If I was gambling, playing $20-$50 a game let's say - I would shoot the cross-corner bank...cuz if I don't make it or hang it, and I unfortunately leave a free bank for my opponent and lose the game (which could very easily happen shooting that bank) - no big deal - I can just rack em' up, and keep playing more a bunch more games...

But if I was in Gabe's spot, playing in the final of a 350 man tournament, a short race, for a $20,000 first prize, with a 6-5 lead in the game, playing Larry Nevel who I know does not have anywhere near as much patience as I do - I am not shooting the bank - I'm squeezing...:cool:

- Ghost

PS, And I will be trying to resist the temptation of the other aggressive choices - banking the 10ball 2-rails - either into my hole, or into the three-ball lineup, or kicking the 10ball to my hole...:)
 
Last edited:

senor

Verified Member
Joined
May 27, 2004
Messages
1,001
One Pocket Ghost said:
The bank shot choice that Frank is talking about - sliding down the balls with inside english and then back down-table, has been around forever, and is available...that said...

Some people will say they shoot the same shot no matter who their playing or what the circumstances are...I disagree with that thinking 100%....If I was gambling, playing $20-$50 a game let's say - I would shoot the cross-corner bank...cuz if I don't make it or hang it, and I unfortunately leave a free bank for my opponent and lose the game (which could very easily happen shooting that bank) - no big deal - I can just rack em' up, and keep playing more a bunch more games...

But if I was in Gabe's spot, playing in the final of a 350 man tournament, a short race, for a $20,000 first prize, with a 6-5 lead in the game, playing Larry Nevel who I know does not have anywhere near as much patience as I do - I am not shooting the bank - I'm squeezing...:cool:

- Ghost

PS, And I will be trying to resist the temptation of the other aggressive choices - banking the 10ball 2-rails - either into my hole, or into the three-ball lineup, or kicking the 10ball to my hole...:)

I hear you, but I would not put it past Gabe to shoot the bank in this spot, especially if he just ran 4 or 5 and made a couple of good shots during the run. It's called a "heat check" :)
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
19,057
From
vero beach fl
ok ill diagram the obvious "not best shot"
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2eRli2ebiK4ebaN4eWar4kOiC4kOaB2kNEE2kHQi@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2eRli2ebiK4ebaN4eWar4kOiC4kOaB2kNEE2kHQi@[/CUETABLE]
i wont make it on purpose:D
id still try franks shot first
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
12,654
From
Gulfport, Mississippi
One Pocket Ghost said:
But if I was in Gabe's spot, playing in the final of a 350 man tournament, a short race, for a $20,000 first prize, with a 6-5 lead in the game, playing Larry Nevel who I know does not have anywhere near as much patience as I do - I am not shooting the bank - I'm squeezing...:cool:
Fair enough, Ghost. But what would your squeeze shot be?

Doc
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
12,283
From
New Hampshire
Cowboy Dennis said:
Gabe has pocket 'A' and he has six balls. It's the first game of the match. It's Gabe's shot. What would you do?

The three balls on the spot are inline.
I don't like that bank on the 11 here. I believe I would just roll up on the right side of the loose ball...
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALk4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAMC4LMoK4MALS4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2eTYj2eadB4kOiC2kMVw2kKbi2kJEV@[/CUETABLE]
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,715
From
Ghosttown
senor said:
I hear you, but I would not put it past Gabe to shoot the bank in this spot :)


Yeah, Gabe banks real good, so he might have given in to the temptation...:)




gulfportdoc said:
Fair enough, Ghost. But what would your squeeze shot be?

Doc


Doc....I would shoot either Steve's shot or this shot >>>

- Ghost

PS, But I believe I would choose the shot that I wei-ed out over Steve's shot, because I'll be leaving my opponent long, where he will be in a tougher position to execute his next shot then he would be if he is left very close to the ten ball, as in Steve's shot - also there's a chance of a table roll-off with Steve's shot.


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2eQWn2ecLM3eFdn4kOiC2kOCA2kQWm2kRDQ@[/CUETABLE]
 
Last edited:

Cowboy Dennis

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
From
Detroit,Michigan
One Pocket Ghost said:
Yeah, Gabe banks real good, so he might have given in to the temptation...:)







Doc....I would shoot either Steve's shot or this shot >>>

- Ghost

PS, But I believe I would choose the shot that I wei-ed out over Steve's shot, because I'll be leaving my opponent long, where he will be in a tougher position to execute his next shot then he would be if he is left very close to the ten ball, as in Steve's shot - also there's a chance of a table roll-off with Steve's shot.


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2eQWn2ecLM3eFdn4kOiC2kOCA2kQWm2kRDQ@[/CUETABLE]
I like that shot Ghosty.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,693
From
Dallas Tx.
One Pocket Ghost said:
The bank shot choice that Frank is talking about - sliding down the balls with inside english and then back down-table, has been around forever, and is available...that said...

Some people will say they shoot the same shot no matter who their playing or what the circumstances are...I disagree with that thinking 100%....If I was gambling, playing $20-$50 a game let's say - I would shoot the cross-corner bank...cuz if I don't make it or hang it, and I unfortunately leave a free bank for my opponent and lose the game (which could very easily happen shooting that bank) - no big deal - I can just rack em' up, and keep playing more a bunch more games...

But if I was in Gabe's spot, playing in the final of a 350 man tournament, a short race, for a $20,000 first prize, with a 6-5 lead in the game, playing Larry Nevel who I know does not have anywhere near as much patience as I do - I am not shooting the bank - I'm squeezing...:cool:

- Ghost

PS, And I will be trying to resist the temptation of the other aggressive choices - banking the 10ball 2-rails - either into my hole, or into the three-ball lineup, or kicking the 10ball to my hole...:)

I understand how your thinking and squeezing Nevel is a good idea, but this shot is too strong for a good player to pass. Both the 11 and 2 balls will end up on Gabes side of the table and the 13 ball should go up table. Gabe executes too good to pass this shot, if I were he i'd definitely bank at the 11 ball.

Billy I.
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,715
From
Ghosttown
wincardona said:
I understand how your thinking and squeezing Nevel is a good idea, but this shot is too strong for a good player to pass. Both the 11 and 2 balls will end up on Gabes side of the table and the 13 ball should go up table. Gabe executes too good to pass this shot, if I were he i'd definitely bank at the 11 ball.

Billy I.


Like my man Freddy, I'm a confirmed 'play the score guy'...that said...

If Gabe was down 6 balls to 5, I'd let him shoot the bank - but ahead 6-5, no.

- Ghost

PS, If you were in a very high money partner game with Artie as your partner, and it was your shot in that same situation - would Artie let you shoot the bank?...:eek:...:)
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,693
From
Dallas Tx.
One Pocket Ghost said:
Like my man Freddy, I'm a confirmed 'play the score guy'...that said...

If Gabe was down 6 balls to 5, I'd let him shoot the bank - but ahead 6-5, no.

- Ghost

PS, If you were in a very high money partner game with Artie as your partner, and it was your shot in that same situation - would Artie let you shoot the bank?...:eek:...:)
He may not want me to shoot it, but i'm going to shoot it regardless. Just keepin it real.

I also believe that being ahead 6 to 5 the shot may even be a better choice because of how the balls will end up. After I shoot the balls will favor me with the lead. Plus I am no more than a 8/5 dog to pocket the bank.

If I was forced to do something else I wouldn't shoot off the 10 ball. I would bank the 13 ball high on the side rail on my side of the table, repositioning the cue ball down table close to the 10 ball.

I'm not trying to gamble but I would shoot the bank with a player my speed and he could do anything else but shoot the bank with his turn.



Billy I.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,271
wincardona said:
He may not want me to shoot it, but i'm going to shoot it regardless. Just keepin it real.

I also believe that being ahead 6 to 5 the shot may even be a better choice because of how the balls will end up. After I shoot the balls will favor me with the lead. Plus I am no more than a 8/5 dog to pocket the bank.

If I was forced to do something else I wouldn't shoot off the 10 ball. I would bank the 13 ball high on the side rail on my side of the table, repositioning the cue ball down table close to the 10 ball.

I'm not trying to gamble but I would shoot the bank with a player my speed and he could do anything else but shoot the bank with his turn.



Billy I.

If I was Billys partner I would let Billy shoot. Because he told the truth he would shoot iy anyway.

An I explained Billy has too shoot its in his blood and his style.

And If Shane was my partner I would tell him too bank the eleven ball. And followe the cue ball.

And the two ball shoild come accros the table for position. And the 11 ball should go in the pocket or real close.

And if he makes the bank we will win the game. And if he misses thier wont be much for our opponents.

Because as I remember this shot the 13 ball should go to the end rail. And Shane isnt too much off a underdog not too make the 11 ball bank.

And I wouldnt do anything withe the 10 ball especialy bring it back down the table.

And iF i Was playing some one even Or it is my shot and especialy If the good shooter is folowing me.

I would cut the 11 ball with left hand english. to the center off the table at the other end off the table.

And barly touch the 11 ball. And the 11 ball ant he 2 balland the Thirteen ball will barly move.

And I would but the cue ball froze if I can too the bottom rail in the center off the table.

And thier is no shot for the next player. And thier isnt a whole lot a player can do especialy a player who shoots like me.


But the 11 ball is the shot I want my player too shoot. To win the game. Because for a good player he isnt much off a dog not too maje it.

And the 11 ball will be by the pocket. And the two ball should come accross the table as U remember the shot.

And the tirteen should be down by the end rail. And for the othe player to run three and out will be very hard.

Because he has too make a tough shot on the two ball if he even shoots at it. And bank the 10 and 13 ball. Witch will be nery hard with a ball by youre pocket.

And if my partner majes the 11 ball bank the game should be all over.If I am correct about the two ball comeing accross the table. And the 13 ball should end up near the end rail.

And If I remember correctly about the two ball then the shot should br shot by a good player.

And even agaist a weacker player If the balls do what I said that I think they will do. If the dont the other player still had too make a good shot to make a ball.

But yiou can set up the shot and shoot the bank wuth follow and see what happens and were the two ball goes.

And Billy will shoot. Especialy knoweing I dont want him too shoot it. He doesnt like being told what to do. Thats Because he didnt rebell when he was a kid.
 

Cowboy Dennis

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
From
Detroit,Michigan
I like shooting the 10 ball here like Steve & Ghosty suggested. If I was down 6-5 I'd bank the 11.

I'd play for one ball here and see if I could get a better shot at the bank on the 11 or the 10. If I bank the 10 down by the other three balls he has to either shoot the 10 and maybe leave me a straight-back on it or he has to hit the three balls and break them up.

I understand and like the bank on the 11 from here but I would be putting 4 balls in motion when I don't have to. Things can go wrong when you do that unnecessarily.

P.S. Nobody yet has suggested the shot that Gabe did shoot. Remember, this was 3 years ago, when he played one-pocket even worse than he plays it now.

Dennis
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
19,057
From
vero beach fl
artie if i read your post correctly you would let shane shoot the bank on the 11 but not billy??:confused:

dennis since the bank on the 11 seems to be the shot to shoot and gabe didnt do it did he try this??
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2ebAI4eVLL4kOiC2kKjg2kKrj2kMfV@[/CUETABLE]
 

stljohnny

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 30, 2010
Messages
101
From
St. Louis, MO
This situation (or one nearly identical) was featured on a recently released one pocket dvd. I haven't tried it at the table yet, but for those shooters out there, I think it'd be real hard to pass up this bank. The balls end up in your favor, and if you play the cb correctly, you can't leave any hangers for the opponent.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,693
From
Dallas Tx.
Cowboy Dennis said:
I like shooting the 10 ball here like Steve & Ghosty suggested. If I was down 6-5 I'd bank the 11.

I'd play for one ball here and see if I could get a better shot at the bank on the 11 or the 10. If I bank the 10 down by the other three balls he has to either shoot the 10 and maybe leave me a straight-back on it or he has to hit the three balls and break them up.

I understand and like the bank on the 11 from here but I would be putting 4 balls in motion when I don't have to. Things can go wrong when you do that unnecessarily.

P.S. Nobody yet has suggested the shot that Gabe did shoot. Remember, this was 3 years ago, when he played one-pocket even worse than he plays it now.

Dennis
When two top players are playing one another a 6 to 5 lead isn't as much as when two weaker players are players are playing one another. But I agree your shot choice should vary depending on the score. That's where experience comes into play. You should factor in when choosing a shot the score, the ability of your opponent, your other options, and the success rate of the shot you're choosing. Lets take this shot as an example. You lead 6 to 5 against a player that has a great offense, your options aren't many if you shoot another shot. You will have at least three balls left in play, and possibly four if you don't shoot the bank on the 11 ball. Understanding this lets evaluate the bank on the 11 ball. Based on my experience shooting this shot with the angle offered, it is a controlled shot if hit reasonably well.You will reposition all three balls that will aid you in not only protecting your lead but also in developing a strong position, and if missed your opponent should only have a defensive shot to shoot.

Lets assume that the score is 7 to 4, now putting balls out of play should be your priority and that's where the bank on the 11 ball isn't as nearly as strong. You should then think about repositioning the balls and where to leave your opponent where he can't develop a threatening position. I like Arties shot where he thins the 11 ball and goes to the side rail and repositions the cue ball on the foot rail in the center. This shot forces your opponent to accommodate what you're trying to accomplish.

Billy I.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,271
wincardona said:
When two top players are playing one another a 6 to 5 lead isn't as much as when two weaker players are players are playing one another. But I agree your shot choice should vary depending on the score. That's where experience comes into play. You should factor in when choosing a shot the score, the ability of your opponent, your other options, and the success rate of the shot you're choosing. Lets take this shot as an example. You lead 6 to 5 against a player that has a great offense, your options aren't many if you shoot another shot. You will have at least three balls left in play, and possibly four if you don't shoot the bank on the 11 ball. Understanding this lets evaluate the bank on the 11 ball. Based on my experience shooting this shot with the angle offered, it is a controlled shot if hit reasonably well.You will reposition all three balls that will aid you in not only protecting your lead but also in developing a strong position, and if missed your opponent should only have a defensive shot to shoot.

Lets assume that the score is 7 to 4, now putting balls out of play should be your priority and that's where the bank on the 11 ball isn't as nearly as strong. You should then think about repositioning the balls and where to leave your opponent where he can't develop a threatening position. I like Arties shot where he thins the 11 ball and goes to the side rail and repositions the cue ball on the foot rail in the center. This shot forces your opponent to accommodate what you're trying to accomplish.

Billy I.


I have gone back in my memory brain. Witch is loosing and forgetting a lot off things I use to no.

But her is my decision weather the score is 5 to 6 or 6 to 5 the corect shot is banking the 11 ball and the two ball will come crose the table too your side.

And the tirteen ball shound be some were around the center off the table.

A little more pat half the table. And the cue ball should end up down the other end off the table.about one dimond from the end rail. Before or after the end rail.

And if you over cut the bank youre cue ball should even end up on the other players side off the table. Were you can run all three balls on the spot. And even the ten ball.

If you shoot the shot correctly the balls dhould all be in position for you too run out.

And youre opponent dhould not have a shot umless he wants too shoot at the 13 ball on a very hard shot.

But the 11 ball will be by your pocket and the two ball will come accross to youre side off the table. And the balls will end up in youre favor.

The only shot he mite get is the 13 ball to make one ball.

After figuring the shot out. I would shoot and bank the 11 ball and the two ball will come accross the table and the 13 ball will be in a good positon.

And the way I see the shot all I can do is win. Or put my opponent in a tough position. The bank is deffinatly the shot.

And when you bank the 11 ball use follow on the cue ball. Shoot it and see for youreself. You are the person you have too convice.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,271
Artie Bodendorfer said:
I have gone back in my memory brain. Witch is loosing and forgetting a lot off things I use to no.

But her is my decision weather the score is 5 to 6 or 6 to 5 the corect shot is banking the 11 ball and the two ball will come crose the table too your side.

And the tirteen ball shound be some were around the center off the table.

A little more pat half the table. And the cue ball should end up down the other end off the table.about one dimond from the end rail. Before or after the end rail.

And if you over cut the bank youre cue ball should even end up on the other players side off the table. Were you can run all three balls on the spot. And even the ten ball.

If you shoot the shot correctly the balls dhould all be in position for you too run out.

And youre opponent dhould not have a shot umless he wants too shoot at the 13 ball on a very hard shot.

But the 11 ball will be by your pocket and the two ball will come accross to youre side off the table. And the balls will end up in youre favor.

The only shot he mite get is the 13 ball to make one ball.

After figuring the shot out. I would shoot and bank the 11 ball and the two ball will come accross the table and the 13 ball will be in a good positon.

And the way I see the shot all I can do is win. Or put my opponent in a tough position. The bank is deffinatly the shot.

And when you bank the 11 ball use follow on the cue ball. Shoot it and see for youreself. You are the person you have too convice.


And Billy can shoot the shot only if he makes the 11 ball. You have the green light on this shot. And you will be in 7th Heaven because you love too shoot.

And watching those round balls go in the pocket excites you.

Good therapy play pool with a bad back.
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,718
From
New Braunfels tx.
Ghoats said:
I'll be leaving my opponent long, where he will be in a tougher position to execute his next shot then he would be if he is left very close to the ten ball, as in Steve's shot - also there's a chance of a table roll-off with Steve's shot.

Since the SJDuck is off line I'll remind you, now that he needs 3 balls and you've managed to get them all in play:confused: He'd shoot the 2 rail kick shot and possibly put you in a bad position.:) See page #2
Rod.
PS, I didn't freeze all the balls as some on this site are prone to do.
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AKDL4BALl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK2JOjI4KAUD4LMoK4MALT4NJuK3OVeL4POiC4QdOs2eOjI2eQWn2ecLM3eFdn4kOiC2kOCA2kQWm2kRDQ@3AKDL4BATl4CHRK4DVFJ3EMoL4FSTK3GPaL3HScL4IPaK3JFdn4KAUD4LMoK4MATS4NJuK3OVeL2PRDQ4QdOs4VATl3VbpC3VTvS4fAUD3fAlU4hATS3hLlR2kRDQ4kcvx4kRlp4kBqj4kBiU1kOKH@[/CUETABLE]
 
Top