Interaction with sweaters/rail birds

Mkbtank

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The other thread regarding playing smarter (not taking flyers etc) and a comment that Patric made about embracing the defense in a game as part of excellence made me think of one of my challenges which I have overcome for the most part but still pops up once in a while.

When people are watching a match that I'm in, there have been times where I feel like I'm responsible for their entertainment, and therefore need to show off with firepower, etc. During those times I feel like if I "duck" instead if shooting, they will feel like I'm not as strong a player so I shouldn't play defensively. This of course is ridiculous. Who cares what they think right. Sometimes I do. I know it's dumb lol.

This doesn't happen nearly as much nowadays thankfully. My game is better and I am (usually) just taking the right shot based on the table and score. My friend Bernard gave me a gem last year which has helped also. It's extreme but made the point for me. He said "if a sweater walks away in disgust because they can't take watching the moving and squeezing in one of my games, I am thrilled! There's no greater compliment they can give me on my squeezing game". That makes me laugh and I am reminded to "F them". My match is not happening for their enjoyment.

Anyway... It made me wonder if any of you have had any issues with sweaters/rail birds. Or any thoughts on them in general.

Or funny rail bird stories.

Just trying to keep it moving here :)
 

jrhendy

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Placerville, CA
The other thread regarding playing smarter (not taking flyers etc) and a comment that Patric made about embracing the defense in a game as part of excellence made me think of one of my challenges which I have overcome for the most part but still pops up once in a while.

When people are watching a match that I'm in, there have been times where I feel like I'm responsible for their entertainment, and therefore need to show off with firepower, etc. During those times I feel like if I "duck" instead if shooting, they will feel like I'm not as strong a player so I shouldn't play defensively. This of course is ridiculous. Who cares what they think right. Sometimes I do. I know it's dumb lol.

This doesn't happen nearly as much nowadays thankfully. My game is better and I am (usually) just taking the right shot based on the table and score. My friend Bernard gave me a gem last year which has helped also. It's extreme but made the point for me. He said "if a sweater walks away in disgust because they can't take watching the moving and squeezing in one of my games, I am thrilled! There's no greater compliment they can give me on my squeezing game". That makes me laugh and I am reminded to "F them". My match is not happening for their enjoyment.

Anyway... It made me wonder if any of you have had any issues with sweaters/rail birds. Or any thoughts on them in general.

Or funny rail bird stories.

Just trying to keep it moving here :)

I have always had issues that are of my own actions. I am a very animated player, especially playing cheap. I interact with the rail and the other player if they respond and are animated too. I will not say a peep, except maybe after one of my shots, if the other player doesn't go along with the program. You learn who will tolerate it and who will not.

For a large bet or in tournaments, I pretty much clam up and I know I play better, but even though I gamble, I am in it for enjoyment and can't keep my mouth shut when I am having a good time and my opponent does not mind. I know some of the guys I play engage me in conversation on purpose and don't care. Sometimes when I am going off I get even more animated and let off a little steam. It is not so much fun then.

My local tournament record for the past six months, and I am including weekly 9 ball when I play in them, is very good, so I know clamming up helps my game, but I just can't resist a little chirping sometimes.

One of the problems is the rail birds who I engage in conversation, don't know the difference sometimes and pipe up at the wrong time. I do not say anything in the serious matches and they get the message soon enough.

There is a player from San Francisco that is very animated. First time I played him I thought he was talking on a cell phone in between shots. He was cussing himself out in spanish for playing bad. We bet it up pretty good when we play and it is a close game and both of us have won at it.

He does more talking than me because we usually play for enough to make me shut up.:D
 

WhatWouldWojoDo

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Railbirds

Railbirds

The only problem I have had with railbirds, when they see me playing seriously (as opposed to the cheap sets I usually play) and after they tell me "after seeing you play like that I need more weight the next time we play" lol.

I try to play my game, but I'm still learning a lot everytime I play. I am trying to experiment with different styles of play. My favorite style of play is very aggressive with flashy shots - when they work the rail birds love it (like a couple weeks ago more than once a rail bird spoke out 'That's a hell of a shot'). but my aggressive play costs me games and money, so i'm learning more of a balanced play
 

Frank Almanza

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Of course it depends on the strength of your opponent as to how aggressive you're going to get. In a serious game with a good opponent I will play a tighter game to develop my side of the table and wait to force them into situations that may yield a shot at running some balls. I'm not in any hurry to win as long a I do win. But you still need to be ready to pounce and run all the balls available when you do get that shot.

I would prefer to watch a defensive game because there's much to learn in those types of games. A real one pocket fan that knows the game should appreciate a game like this.

I'm not concerned with the rail when I'm playing. Let them go watch a nine ball game if they want to see some shot making.

Not too long ago after a match I had a gentleman that watched me play for a good number hours come over to me and said that I have the type of game that people like to bet on. I took that as a compliment to my patience.
 

petie

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I may have told this story before but it bears repeating. The last time I saw Red, Cornbread that is, we were sweating a match on the North side of Detroit. Alex was there looking all of 12 or 13. Anyways, the player we were watching was Bob Henning of Bebob Publishing. Red took a special interest in him because Bob had ghost-written Red's autobiography. At one point Bob dogged an easy shot and we commented that maybe the crowd was getting to him. Red said, "I always played better in front of a crowd. Yep, I was a show dog." I still laugh when I think of this.
 

Tom Wirth

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Delray Beach, Florida
I've always felt like I had the advantage when I went on the road and played strangers in their own rooms. If I didn't know you, I knew I had the best of it. Not just because I felt like I was definitely the better player but because of all the issues players had playing in their home rooms. Many of those issues you all have mentioned here.

The feeling that they had to entertain, or had to listen to friends and others making comments every time that home boy made a mistake, or sometimes the over confidence that can come from knowing they knew the table better than me, being the stranger and never having played on that table before. Getting used to a table for a road player is something that comes very quickly.

The road agent has no baggage coming in. He is there for one purpose, win the cheese. The home court player may have come in for any number of reasons. He is there for the social atmosphere, practice, or to possibly play some guy he had his eye on the other day. God knows what, but it wasn't the singular purpose of finding a victim, and the room was full of nothing but victims. Being the unknown quantity is an asset. The railbirds almost never bother the stranger. They never know if your going to pull a gun or what. Plus for some reason railbirds always seem to focus their wrath on the local guy.

Tom
 
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straightback

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Mitch, I know I can echo your feelings when folks start to line up and sweat one of my matches. For some reason, I feel almost like I owe the crowd some entertainment and might be inclined to shoot an aggressive and tricky shot as opposed to the odds-on best shot. I think a lot of people enjoy the positive feedback you get from a well-educated crowd.

As the stakes go up, however, I really dont care what the eyeballers think - if they are after excitement, they shouldn't have sat down to watch a 1p match!
 

LSJohn

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monett missouri
The other thread regarding playing smarter (not taking flyers etc) and a comment that Patric made about embracing the defense in a game as part of excellence made me think of one of my challenges which I have overcome for the most part but still pops up once in a while.

When people are watching a match that I'm in, there have been times where I feel like I'm responsible for their entertainment, and therefore need to show off with firepower, etc. During those times I feel like if I "duck" instead if shooting, they will feel like I'm not as strong a player so I shouldn't play defensively. This of course is ridiculous. Who cares what they think right. Sometimes I do. I know it's dumb lol.

This doesn't happen nearly as much nowadays thankfully. My game is better and I am (usually) just taking the right shot based on the table and score. My friend Bernard gave me a gem last year which has helped also. It's extreme but made the point for me. He said "if a sweater walks away in disgust because they can't take watching the moving and squeezing in one of my games, I am thrilled! There's no greater compliment they can give me on my squeezing game". That makes me laugh and I am reminded to "F them". My match is not happening for their enjoyment.

Anyway... It made me wonder if any of you have had any issues with sweaters/rail birds. Or any thoughts on them in general.

Or funny rail bird stories.

Just trying to keep it moving here :)

It's ridiculous if your primary objective is to take the cheese, or to play the best you can play (a goal you seem to be striving toward) but if you play primarily for recreation/enjoyment/entertainment, shooting shots for the rail can add to the fun. If it's not costing you too many losses, and you get a kick out of it, what the heck, go for it! (There's even a potential longterm benefit... players in your range and above might recognize the occasional poor choices, and even if you pull off what Grady called a "Harrigan," will know you got lucky. Might occasionally make matching up easier. :D )

On the other hand, this seems to be part of your mission to find the discipline to play smarter. So balance the two and take your choice.

That's the end of my sermon. Now my confession. I have the same problem. :eek:
 

androd

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New Braunfels tx.
I've always felt like I had the advantage when I went on the road and played strangers in their own rooms. If I didn't know you, I knew I had the best of it. Not just because I felt like I was definitely the better player but because of all the issues players had playing in their home rooms. Many of those issues you all have mentioned here.

The feeling that they had to entertain, or had to listen to friends and others making comments every time that home boy made a mistake, or sometimes the over confidence that can come from knowing they knew the table better than me, being the stranger and never having played on that table before. Getting used to a table for a road player is something that comes very quickly.

The road agent has no baggage coming in. He is there for one purpose, win the cheese. The home court player may have come in for any number of reasons. He is there for the social atmosphere, practice, or to possibly play some guy he had his eye on the other day. God knows what, but it wasn't the singular purpose of finding a victim, and the room was full of nothing but victims. Being the unknown quantity is an asset. The railbirds almost never bother the stranger. They never know if your going to pull a gun or what. Plus for some reason railbirds always seem to focus their wrath on the local guy.

Tom

The hardest place to play is your home room. The people who get out of line, you know them and you know, they should know better, and it's aggravating.

I played all over the south many years and only had one problem. A guy wanted a side bet and I said no. (Claxton Georgia) Big Jackpot.:eek:

Johnny Vivas told me his life's ambition was to kill a sweater. :)
He didn't get it done.

As my friend Tano says when people get rowdy "It aint church." (Tano has no arms, he could beat many here) :)

As Tom said I was rarely bothered in a strange room.
Rod.
 

Mkbtank

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Philly Pa
Interaction with sweaters/rail birds

I have always had issues that are of my own actions. I am a very animated player, especially playing cheap. I interact with the rail and the other player if they respond and are animated too. I will not say a peep, except maybe after one of my shots, if the other player doesn't go along with the program. You learn who will tolerate it and who will not.



For a large bet or in tournaments, I pretty much clam up and I know I play better, but even though I gamble, I am in it for enjoyment and can't keep my mouth shut when I am having a good time and my opponent does not mind. I know some of the guys I play engage me in conversation on purpose and don't care. Sometimes when I am going off I get even more animated and let off a little steam. It is not so much fun then.



My local tournament record for the past six months, and I am including weekly 9 ball when I play in them, is very good, so I know clamming up helps my game, but I just can't resist a little chirping sometimes.



One of the problems is the rail birds who I engage in conversation, don't know the difference sometimes and pipe up at the wrong time. I do not say anything in the serious matches and they get the message soon enough.



There is a player from San Francisco that is very animated. First time I played him I thought he was talking on a cell phone in between shots. He was cussing himself out in spanish for playing bad. We bet it up pretty good when we play and it is a close game and both of us have won at it.



He does more talking than me because we usually play for enough to make me shut up.:D


Thanks John. Sounds like you're a fun guy to play. Unless we're gambling big.... If you get to the derby Id love to play some.

The only problem I have had with railbirds, when they see me playing seriously (as opposed to the cheap sets I usually play) and after they tell me "after seeing you play like that I need more weight the next time we play" lol.



I try to play my game, but I'm still learning a lot everytime I play. I am trying to experiment with different styles of play. My favorite style of play is very aggressive with flashy shots - when they work the rail birds love it (like a couple weeks ago more than once a rail bird spoke out 'That's a hell of a shot'). but my aggressive play costs me games and money, so i'm learning more of a balanced play

I hear that, man. At my old hall (Takony) we used to shoot "dedication" shots for the rail birds lol. Part of a distracted mentality for sure!



Of course it depends on the strength of your opponent as to how aggressive you're going to get. In a serious game with a good opponent I will play a tighter game to develop my side of the table and wait to force them into situations that may yield a shot at running some balls. I'm not in any hurry to win as long a I do win. But you still need to be ready to pounce and run all the balls available when you do get that shot.



I would prefer to watch a defensive game because there's much to learn in those types of games. A real one pocket fan that knows the game should appreciate a game like this.



I'm not concerned with the rail when I'm playing. Let them go watch a nine ball game if they want to see some shot making.



Not too long ago after a match I had a gentleman that watched me play for a good number hours come over to me and said that I have the type of game that people like to bet on. I took that as a compliment to my patience.


Sure sounds like it. And thanks. Yet another nod to work on patience.

I may have told this story before but it bears repeating. The last time I saw Red, Cornbread that is, we were sweating a match on the North side of Detroit. Alex was there looking all of 12 or 13. Anyways, the player we were watching was Bob Henning of Bebob Publishing. Red took a special interest in him because Bob had ghost-written Red's autobiography. At one point Bob dogged an easy shot and we commented that maybe the crowd was getting to him. Red said, "I always played better in front of a crowd. Yep, I was a show dog." I still laugh when I think of this.


Sounds about right. Show dog. Heh.


I've always felt like I had the advantage when I went on the road and played strangers in their own rooms. If I didn't know you, I knew I had the best of it. Not just because I felt like I was definitely the better player but because of all the issues players had playing in their home rooms. Many of those issues you all have mentioned here.



The feeling that they had to entertain, or had to listen to friends and others making comments every time that home boy made a mistake, or sometimes the over confidence that can come from knowing they knew the table better than me, being the stranger and never having played on that table before. Getting used to a table for a road player is something that comes very quickly.



The road agent has no baggage coming in. He is there for one purpose, win the cheese. The home court player may have come in for any number of reasons. He is there for the social atmosphere, practice, or to possibly play some guy he had his eye on the other day. God knows what, but it wasn't the singular purpose of finding a victim, and the room was full of nothing but victims. Being the unknown quantity is an asset. The railbirds almost never bother the stranger. They never know if your going to pull a gun or what. Plus for some reason railbirds always seem to focus their wrath on the local guy.



Tom

I haven't had that experience Tom, since I'm not a road agent (or even close), nor have I played one but that makes sense. Many times I wished the sweaters didn't know me :). They can be a tough crowd.



Mitch, I know I can echo your feelings when folks start to line up and sweat one of my matches. For some reason, I feel almost like I owe the crowd some entertainment and might be inclined to shoot an aggressive and tricky shot as opposed to the odds-on best shot. I think a lot of people enjoy the positive feedback you get from a well-educated crowd.



As the stakes go up, however, I really dont care what the eyeballers think - if they are after excitement, they shouldn't have sat down to watch a 1p match!

I agree wholeheartedly.



It's ridiculous if your primary objective is to take the cheese, or to play the best you can play (a goal you seem to be striving toward) but if you play primarily for recreation/enjoyment/entertainment, shooting shots for the rail can add to the fun. If it's not costing you too many losses, and you get a kick out of it, what the heck, go for it! (There's even a potential longterm benefit... players in your range and above might recognize the occasional poor choices, and even if you pull off what Grady called a "Harrigan," will know you got lucky. Might occasionally make matching up easier. :D )



On the other hand, this seems to be part of your mission to find the discipline to play smarter. So balance the two and take your choice.



That's the end of my sermon. Now my confession. I have the same problem. :eek:


Hahahh. No wonder you understood so well!! Lolol.

The hardest place to play is your home room. The people who get out of line, you know them and you know, they should know better, and it's aggravating.



I played all over the south many years and only had one problem. A guy wanted a side bet and I said no. (Claxton Georgia) Big Jackpot.:eek:



Johnny Vivas told me his life's ambition was to kill a sweater. :)

He didn't get it done.



As my friend Tano says when people get rowdy "It aint church." (Tano has no arms, he could beat many here) :)



As Tom said I was rarely bothered in a strange room.

Rod.


Thanks Rod. Post up a road story, would ya? I bet you have some good ones.
 

LSJohn

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I've got an upside down road story -- about a match in Kansas City by a local against a road player.

A very close friend of mine who played shortstop+ when he was 16 did a tour in the Navy, then a couple of years as an electrician's apprentice, got tired of the grind and started playing pool full time. He made a meager living playing mostly $5 9-ball in the joints around KC. Within a couple of years he was in dead punch and played REAL well. I don't have much to compare him to, and didn't know pool well at the time, but, REAL good.

Anyway, some alleged road player whose name I never got handily beat a pretty good local player and the guy steered him onto my friend. The guy tells the roadster to "bring him along slow" because he's fairly astute but will go off like a Roman Candle if he gets a ring in his nose.

They come into our hangout in a suburb of KC -- Mission, Kansas -- and after some brief woofing, get in action. One-shot shoot-out on the bar box, $20/game.

There was a time I could have told you almost every shot by both players, but tempus shore do fugit and my brain....

As I recall, the road player shot once in 11 games. Before that shot he had passed a shoot-out and my friend (Pat Duggan, by the way in case any of you knew him -- he died about 3 years ago) cut in a near-table-length end-rail shot and ran out. So the guy tried the next similar shot he was offered, missed it and Pat ran out.

The punch line is, when Pat made the 9 on the break in the 11th game, the road dude turns to the guy who steered him and says, almost at the top of his lungs, "You think I'm bringing him along slow enough? :D
 

tylerdurden

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I think there are a number of players who have absolutely learned that interaction with the crowd helps their game, so they are apt to do it more. I think earl and Siegel both fit in this category, and IMO earl was somehow able to thrive on emotion and rail bird confrontation.
 

baby huey

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Most people are respectful of players in matches and will not disrupt the game. What I didn't like was when someone came in and wasn't involved in my specific game and decided to take over the pool room with his banter and matching up rhetoric. I have seen some serious words exchanged during these times and I remember Billy Johnson being in a high stakes match calling out Ronnie Allen when Ronnie got just a little too loud mouthed around Billie's game. All in all, most people watching just enjoy watching and enjoy the thrill of being a rail bird and getting to pass the time watching people play pool.
 

Mkbtank

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Interaction with sweaters/rail birds

I have almost never been a rail bird myself because I cannot be in a pool room and not be playing. The time I get "off the grid" to play is too limited to squander. Although I am sure I would learn a lot watching, I just cannot pass up the opportunity to actually play. Plus I can always get a game. But I too can't stand when others start "holding court" nearby while I am playing seriously.
 

androd

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I have almost never been a rail bird myself because I cannot be in a pool room and not be playing. The time I get "off the grid" to play is too limited to squander. Although I am sure I would learn a lot watching, I just cannot pass up the opportunity to actually play. Plus I can always get a game. But I too can't stand when others start "holding court" nearby while I am playing seriously.

Yeah well "It aint Church" Hope it bothers your opponent more. :)

Grady once me you gotta make them shut up. I said you tell'em, it don't bother me.:)
He called a guy over gave him his room key, and sent him across the street to his hotel. The guy came back with a roll of cotton, Grady stuffed some in his ears and begin to play more. He won two in a row and jerked the cotton out. I said what's wrong? He said "I can't hear the balls click" :D:p
Rod.
 
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