Which Table To Play

in another thread the issue came up does tight pockets favor the weaker or stronger player when playing with a spot???

artie felt the tight pockets are better for the stronger plaer
It's not a minor thing at all.

If you were to break it down into numbers and say that you had 100 possible shots on a table with 4.5" pockets and by reducing the pocket openings to 4" those 100 shots became 70 then you have just lost 30% of your arsenal.

Now if you are a player who is very familiar with the 4" pockets then you know what shots you can and cannot make and your arsenal stands ready with a well-honed skill to back it up. For the unfamiliar player he has to guess during battle what shots go and what shots don't. That affects his choices and patterns considerably.

I played on a table that I think was less than 4" at Shooter's in Olathe KS and I was honestly afraid to shoot at my hole on shots I would make easily in the heart of the pocket on 4.25" pockets. I made a comment to my opponent that I felt like I had to jump the balls into the hole. I pulled up after two games because I couldn't fade the feeling of helplessness.

My opponent didn't even run a lot of balls. He just lagged them to the hole and played the cueball safe. I could have played that game with him as well but I was already disconcerted and decided to look for other action on more comfortable tables.[/QUOTE

I will tell it like it is no matter who says what. This comes from me playing and my Experence. THe tougher the pocket the better for the better player and shooter. Because they are more accurate.

If Scott playes the same game on the same table. It would all be different. And Scott could beat wis opponent the same way or worse by playing another match.

People dont realize its just one match and if they play again it will be different. And the other player might never win a nother match.

Or maybe Scott might not ever wi a match playing 10 to 7. But I no one thing for sure the next time they play.

IT will have a different resulte. Just like I seen players beat people playing them even. And the other player could spot them the 6 or 7 ball playing nine ball.

The tight pockets didnt beat Scott. What beat Scott is he didnt play well. And if you ask him.

I think he will agree with what I said. And its not the tough pockets that beat him. It was the way he played that beat him. Weather his mind was on the game or somewere else only Scott knows.

But Scott playes great and it does not matter to him weather the pockets are loose or tight. Because he is a player. And if Scott Plays his game. You will see a different resulte.

If anything the tight pockets should help Scott more then the other player. Because Scoot knowes the game better and is a better banker and shooter playing one pocket.

And Scott has too much experience to let a tighter pocket afect his game. He knowes what he has too do to win.

And If the spot was too big what he gave out. Thats another story. But I would say by what I watched. Scott did not play his game.

And he can play a lot better. We are all hummans. And we are not always motuvated too play good and hard .

And put all our efforts into every game we play. If Scott showes up too play. What I seen I like Scott. I dont no what they played for or if the motavation was thier.

BUt the morale off the story is the tighter the pockets the better for the better player. I have proven this over and over again. With people I have played.

And I am sure that we will agree that Scott is the better player. And the tighter the pockets favor the better player. And I did not say the better shooter. I said the better player.

billy ,viffer, and dennis so far beleive the tighter pockets favor the weaker player

billy
Please tell me your joking, bcause if your not then you have really slipped. Are you really serious when you say that ..WHEN GIVING SUBSTANTIAL WEIGHT THE POCKET SIZE DOESN'T MATTER? If two players are playing even then the better player has a better game on tight pockets, but if two players are playing a game where one player is getting substantial weight he is better off playing on 4 inch pockets or smaller. Let me give you an example, if I was giving up the 7 playing 9 ball do you think I would have a better game playing on a snooker table? Of coarse not, the player giving up weight needs a pocket size that doesn't affect his strengths, and a pocket size that will create problems for his opponent the weaker player.

If I played Frost getting 10 to 6 I would much rather play on a table with 4 inch pockets, than a table with 4-1/2 inch pockets. And this I feel very strongly about.

Don't forget i'm a doctor.

Billy I.

viffer
id rather play on 5 inch pockets the 4.5 pockets against any of them getting spotted in one pocket.

wanna debate this for 500$

dennis
Dave, there's no debate here, you do what you like with your money but I will say this: if you got 16-4 from one of those guys who gives it to you and you played on 5" pockets and broke even, then you came back the next day and played the same game on 4.5" pockets, you'd win. The tighter table takes away their ball-running capabilities and that's the thing they are counting on when you make a mistake. The tighter table isn't really going to hurt you as much as it hurts them.

bill stroud
When the better player is giving up a spot he wants looser pockets.

Notice I said looser. Pocket size is not the only factor. Pocket cut as well as the fall of the slate are also considerations. Humidity is also a big factor. What time of day you play is also important especially in more humid areas.

If you are giving up a spot never play in the evening when the dew point reaches a certain level. The pockets will get tight and hang balls.

A spot for a good player in Vegas is not the same as a spot in Tampa. Trust me.

Another big factor in choosing loose or tight pockets is your playing style.

I run balls. I win in a hurry. Not everyone plays that way.

Hopkins would do better on tight pockets because of his style.
I have never seen Artie play but if he plays what I call the "Chicago" style (very tight) then he too would do better on tight pockets.

Billy I. who plays like I do would do better on looser pockets but as I said before climate, location and time of day are huge factors.

Bill Stroud

The spot was tough but IMO, Scott was worn out from the road, he has been away from home since Derby, around a month now. I am sure they will play again and once again I will bet on Frost.

As always their will be different opinions on this issue.
I believe it has a lot to do with the style of the player giving the spot.

I would much rather carry the weight on a tougher table. Running the balls isn't a problem for me. Removing a ball from my opponent on a looser, drop pocket table is much tougher.

When they are going to 6 balls or so I can hardly afford give any, and when you can't remove them it's a problem.

I've been playing in a room with these kinds of pockets for a couple of weeks now and their is a big difference.
The people I play are asking for less weight and I'm reluctant.

Rod. <----- I play safe more than the average gofer.

PS, I've seen Jersey Red give weigh on these kinds of tables and run so many he demoralized his opponent.

One other thing.

I think the ball runners are better at giving up big spots no matter what size the pockets are. The reason is simple. Ball runners that like loose pocket can always tighten up their pocketing by using more center ball.

Tight players can never loosen up and start to run lots of balls.

Lassiter was the best ball striker on tight equipment I ever saw. He was the one to shoot one shot for your life. I was visiting him at St. Elmos' pool room in Norfolk and we went to practice some 9 ball. Well this table had the loosest pockes you ever saw. After a few game I asked Wimpy why we were playing on this particular table.

He said "Always practice on the loosest table you can find because it builds up your rhythm and confidence." "You can always tighten up your game if you need to."

Good advice.

Bill Stroud

lll said:

dennis
Dave, there's no debate here, you do what you like with your money but I will say this: if you got 16-4 from one of those guys who gives it to you and you played on 5" pockets and broke even, then you came back the next day and played the same game on 4.5" pockets, you'd win. The tighter table takes away their ball-running capabilities and that's the thing they are counting on when you make a mistake. The tighter table isn't really going to hurt you as much as it hurts them.

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I will repeat it again whether its humad or damp yhe better player the better player has a better game the tighter the pockets. And that does not mean the better shooter has the edge it means the better player will have the edge.

And thats because the better player will get better shoots.The better the shots the easier it is too make balls. Do you nunderstand this part.

THe easier they shots the more balls the better player will mske. SO if the better player makes more balls. THen he should win the game.

It comes down to the better player getting more and better easier shots. I hope people can understand it now. And it does not matter if they are 3 and a half inch pockets.

If you are the better player and you get easier shots then you will run more balls then the weacker player. Because you will be shooying at easier shots. And you will start out with more easier shots.

And if you are the better player. You will get more chances and shots then the weaker player. If the player is the better player not the better shooter then again the tighter the pockets the better for the better player.

Even if the weacker shooter is getting a spot if he is the better player. THe tighter the pocket the better for the better player. Witch does not have to be the better shooter.

When I would give out spots 11 to 2 or 3 I wanted to play on the tightest table possable. Because I want too make it as hard as possably for the weacker player too make a ball.

And when the weeker player is shooting up in the air at every shot. I want him shooting at the smalest pockets possable. I am not worried about me shooting at a real tuogh pocket. Because I will start out with a easy shot.

And I wont shoot at a hard shot. And When I start out with a easy shot. From thier its all up too me playing good position for easy shots. Its not like I am going too keep shooting at hard shots. THats not going to happen. The weaker player will be shooting at the hardest shots.

Why would I want the weacker player shooting into easy pockets. Its rediculous.

I am the better player soo if I am playing a helpless player or a champion I want the toughest table possable. Because I am the better player and I will shoot less hard shots thrn the weacker or stronger player. Because I am the better player.

Thats why If I coach Shane I want the toughest pocket possable because He will become the better player. And the tighter the pockets the better for the better player.

Just like when I played Bugs The tighter the table the better for me. Because if you out play your opponent. THe tighter the pockets the better for me because I will out play my opponent.

Because I am the better player. And its not because off luck. And If Scoot plays shannon or alex or any top player. The tighter the pocket table is the better it is for SCoot.

BECAUSE HE IS THE BETTER PLAYER. Not the better shooter but the better player.Just like playing a great straight pool player.

If Scott playes them on a real tight table he has a way bigger edge then playing them on a easy pocket table.Because he is the better player.

Like when John beat Scott If the would play on a real tiogh table Johns chance off winning would be way worse then playing Scott on a 5 inch pocket table.

Because tougher shoots are harder too make then easier shots. And the weacker player will get the tougher shots too shoot at.

So remember. If the player you are playing isa better player then you. You want a easy pocket table. So you have a better chance off making a tough shot. Instead off hanging the ball. The ball will drop. And you keep shooting.

If it hangs you mite leave your opponent a easy shot and a great player will run out on any table weather the table is hard or easy. Because when they start with a easy shot. And they play good position and the balls are all open. They will run all the balls.

A super slow table or super fast table can effect the better player more then a loose or tight pocket. Because ir will be harder for him too adjust. Because the better player relyes on his position more then a weacker player.

Her is a way you might see what I am saying . If Two people are playing. WE will use SCott and the player he played. If scott plays him even. But Scotts pocket is 3 and three quater inches or 3 and a half inches.

Does Scott have a better or worse game playing him even. If he plays into a smaller pocket. Or Scott playes into a 4 inch pocket. And the other player gets a 4 and a half inch pocket too shoot at . Who would you like them playing even.

The better player has the edge on a tighter pocket table then a looser table. If Eferine played nine ball against the best shooters. Wouldnt you want the tightest table possable. For the better player. Or if Eral played Eferine nine ball. I would like Eferine more if they played on a 3 and a half inch pocket then a 5 inch pocket.

But thats the way it is. And you can belive whatever you want.

I think also that tight pockets favor the better position player. If you get out of line on a sloppy table you can always do some pocket cheating until you get back, but on a tight table your run could be over real quick if you leave the cb just a little off your intended line.

Skin

Skin said:

I think also that tight pockets favor the better position player. If you get out of line on a sloppy table you can always do some pocket cheating until you get back, but on a tight table your run could be over real quick if you leave the cb just a little off your intended line.

Skin

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Your wright what you said skin A tight table difently helps the better position player. Very Good and Very true. When someone says something thats true . I will agree. But if its not true I will not agree

And what Skin said is 100% correct.

I would never play one pocket on buckets in the first place.

timdog24 said:

I would never play one pocket on buckets in the first place.

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I recomend for beginners too play on big pockets. Tell they learn too make balls and get thier cofedence up. And then as you improve and get better. then start playing on tighter pockets. But in the beginning you want too be able to make balls. Or the gam will not be fun for you.

I'll bet on Hagar every time on 4 inch pockets

I'll bet on Hagar every time on 4 inch pockets

The key for top players when choosing a table to play on is finding a table with the pocket size that isn't intimidating to himself, but is to his opponent.
I found that my preference was playing on a fairly tight table with 4-1/4 to 4-1/2 pockets, that pocket size offered me that luxury. But when your talking about 4 inch pockets and giving up big weight, well that's something i'd rather not do.

As far as two players playing even I feel the better position player has the best of it playing on tighter pockets. But once again we're not debating on two players that play even, this debate is on giving substantial weight and how pocket size affects the outcome of the game.

Quite simply, 4 inch pockets and smaller is not the pocket size conducive to allow yourself to play your game, and when your giving big weight you want to play on a table where your opponent has problems holding you. If your not then the intimidating factor that top players have will be negated.

Playing on 4 inch pockets reduces the capabilities of the big runs top players rely on to overcome the weight. TOP PLAYERS STEAL A LOT OF GAMES WHEN THEIR BEHIND BECAUSE OF THEIR OFFENSIVE ABILITIES. When playing on 4 inch pockets that ability is almost negated.

Maybe the reason Frost played poorly was because he was mentally defeated, when playing on a table that is talking too loudly sometimes you dont have the answers. Believe it or not, your opponent isn't the only reasons why a player breaks down, often the toughness of the table speaks as loud or louder than your opponent.

If Frost plays the same game on the same table I expect to see the same results. For those who see it differently can make a sociable wager with me.

Billy I.

I agree with Billy. On a 4 1/2x 9 with normal pockets I can play my game.
On a 5x10 with 4" pockets I am lost.

The ball runner needs some margin of error in the pockets to do their thing.
If the pockets are too tight they can't play the game they are used to and have mis handicapped themselves.

Bill Stroud

One factor with smaller pockets is that there are allot more options for takeouts. I have played most of my hours in one pocket on tight pockets and I am totally lost on allot of takeouts with the bigger pockets.

Not sure how that translates to getting/giving weight but it is a factor.

Dudley

wincardona said:

The key for top players when choosing a table to play on is finding a table with the pocket size that isn't intimidating to himself, but is to his opponent.
I found that my preference was playing on a fairly tight table with 4-1/4 to 4-1/2 pockets, that pocket size offered me that luxury. But when your talking about 4 inch pockets and giving up big weight, well that's something i'd rather not do.

As far as two players playing even I feel the better position player has the best of it playing on tighter pockets. But once again we're not debating on two players that play even, this debate is on giving substantial weight and how pocket size affects the outcome of the game.

Quite simply, 4 inch pockets and smaller is not the pocket size conducive to allow yourself to play your game, and when your giving big weight you want to play on a table where your opponent has problems holding you. If your not then the intimidating factor that top players have will be negated.

Playing on 4 inch pockets reduces the capabilities of the big runs top players rely on to overcome the weight. TOP PLAYERS STEAL A LOT OF GAMES WHEN THEIR BEHIND BECAUSE OF THEIR OFFENSIVE ABILITIES. When playing on 4 inch pockets that ability is almost negated.

Maybe the reason Frost played poorly was because he was mentally defeated, when playing on a table that is talking too loudly sometimes you dont have the answers. Believe it or not, your opponent isn't the only reasons why a player breaks down, often the toughness of the table speaks as loud or louder than your opponent.

If Frost plays the same game on the same table I expect to see the same results. For those who see it differently can make a sociable wager with me.

Billy I.

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If the table they played on is in Ga. I believe it's like the toughest table in the country. If so ..Good Luck Scott.

Billy I.