Players, Hustlers,Stakehorses and others

keoneyo

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Keone,

Was jimmy Caan a good player? Of the actors you know who shoot pool, who would you say are the best?

Jimmy looked more good playing that actual playing. But he did like to bet it up. Thing I learned about Jimmy is that he is a pro and understand what its like to deal with pressure. I was working with him on Alien Nation and he was fussing about kinda hemming and hawing during rehearsal but when the director said action he was first rate especially on his close up. Man he really shined through and was 100% focused on what he was doing.
He really taught me something.
When I worked with him on Honeymoon in Vegas he was like the capo de tutti capo. He just took over the set and did his thing.
Of the actors Id probably have to say Jerry Orbach was pretty good. Great guy too. Peter Falk was pretty good too in his days. But those guys loved 14.1,
Not too many actors I know have the patience for one hole.
 

Mkbtank

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Players, Hustlers,Stakehorses and others

Jimmy looked more good playing that actual playing. But he did like to bet it up. Thing I learned about Jimmy is that he is a pro and understand what its like to deal with pressure. I was working with him on Alien Nation and he was fussing about kinda hemming and hawing during rehearsal but when the director said action he was first rate especially on his close up. Man he really shined through and was 100% focused on what he was doing.

He really taught me something.

When I worked with him on Honeymoon in Vegas he was like the capo de tutti capo. He just took over the set and did his thing.

Of the actors Id probably have to say Jerry Orbach was pretty good. Great guy too. Peter Falk was pretty good too in his days. But those guys loved 14.1,

Not too many actors I know have the patience for one hole.


Thanks for the answer Keone. Honeymoon in Vegas was great. The original "Flying Elvis's!"
 

FastEddieF.

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I wish someone here would sort out the Tobys for us. I'm aware that a player named Toby Sweet was often in action - mostly in the east and south? I've also heard stories about another Toby in Vegas, who had a number of epic battles with Jack Cooney, but I don't know his name. Were there any others?

Toby Sweet lives in Florida bell bottoms hippie style clothes, one of the best nine ball money players of all time.Push out nine ball Toby Flarity, not sure how he spelled his last name lives in Vegas, beat Archie Karas for I heard 750 thousand playing one pocket giving up like 10-5 Jack Cooney beat Toby from Vegas for large amounts like 80,000 and up when Jack lost, Toby brag to me he beat Jack for 28,000 but didn't mention he lost 120,000 the month before. Toby bought a poolroom in Vegas with some of his winnings from Archie.
 

gulfportdoc

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I spent several months in 1967, and several months in 1969 living in L.A. and hanging out at Ye Billiard Den...It was a great poolroom, with a ton of action, good looking women, and celebrities there...I had the time of my life and could tell a lot of wild stories...

And I had it made because I met a beautiful girl who lived in the gardener's cottage of a mansion, 1 block from the poolroom at 915 Kings Road, and I moved in with her...doesn't get any better than that - living with a gorgeous girl, just 1 block from a great poolroom.

PS, Here's a pic of me back then standing in the living room of that gardener's cottage ----->


Luke, do you remember a tavern on the Strip, just east and across the street from the Whisky A-GoGo, I think on the corner of Alta Loma Rd? They had 2-3 bar boxes, and the one in front had continuous small action. It was a gold mine for me because there were only a few good players. But there was one guy I had trouble with... Your historical picture puts me in mind of him.;)

The band I was in played The Bitter End a few times on Sta Monica Blvd. It was a good sized rock palace, but connected to it in the same building was a good tavern with several bar boxes. After coming from the big track, it was hard to lose on the bar boxes. Good times.

I went to Ye Billiard Den a number of times in those days, and I may have seen you, but the place was over my head financially. The beer was too expensive, and I couldn't afford the stakes most of them played for.

I played mostly at Mr. Pockets on 6th St., the Musician's Union, and Celebrity Billiards (Tugwell hung out there). But my main room was Chopsticks Billiards on Victory in the Valley-- home of Hollywood Jack. Then when I gave up pool and snooker for 3C, I hung out exclusively at Tiff Payne's North Hyd Billiards.

A lot of celebrities were pool devotees in those days. Even Fred Astaire used to attend the World Inviationals at the Elks in McArthur Park. He had one of the pros (maybe Pete Margo?) come up to his house in Beverly Hills to give him lessons. Naturally Astaire was as stylish on the green baize as he was on the dance floor...

~Doc
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Luke, do you remember a tavern on the Strip, just east and across the street from the Whisky A-GoGo, I think on the corner of Alta Loma Rd? They had 2-3 bar boxes, and the one in front had continuous small action. It was a gold mine for me because there were only a few good players. But there was one guy I had trouble with... Your historical picture puts me in mind of him.;)

The band I was in played The Bitter End a few times on Sta Monica Blvd. It was a good sized rock palace, but connected to it in the same building was a good tavern with several bar boxes. After coming from the big track, it was hard to lose on the bar boxes. Good times.

I went to Ye Billiard Den a number of times in those days, and I may have seen you, but the place was over my head financially. The beer was too expensive, and I couldn't afford the stakes most of them played for.

I played mostly at Mr. Pockets on 6th St., the Musician's Union, and Celebrity Billiards (Tugwell hung out there). But my main room was Chopsticks Billiards on Victory in the Valley-- home of Hollywood Jack. Then when I gave up pool and snooker for 3C, I hung out exclusively at Tiff Payne's North Hyd Billiards.

A lot of celebrities were pool devotees in those days. Even Fred Astaire used to attend the World Inviationals at the Elks in McArthur Park. He had one of the pros (maybe Pete Margo?) come up to his house in Beverly Hills to give him lessons. Naturally Astaire was as stylish on the green baize as he was on the dance floor...

~Doc
They had a bar in Chicago they called Whisky a go go. It was a younger crowed. A lot of those people would go on American Band Stand. With Dick Clark.

Across the street on the second floor was Bell Clark pool room. On the second floor. That was the first time I was ever in a pool room. I went there to watch my two brothers play. I was about 15 years old. I never hit a pool ball or watched people play pool. You had to be 18 years old.

And It looked like paradise to me. The Shinny lights. The beautiful pool balls. And people flashing money and gambling. I saw Reno and Bunny Rogoff With his bierd and Castro outfit on. And a gig Walet hanging out of his pocket with a big long chain.

Believe it or not I did not no who Reno was or Bunny Rogoff. And I had no clue what a pool hustler was or did. But I remember the faces. Not there names. What I didn't no that pool was going to be part of my destine. to be.A pool hustler.

That I started playing pool when I was 18 years old. I quite the first day of the tour with Royal American show. Making any where from 25 hundred to 35 hundred dollars every 10 day fair.

I quite a good money making hustle to learn to play pool. And I even had to pay time. Imagine quitting a good hustle to learn to play pool. Not even knowing if I had any ability or skill to play the game. Don't get me wrong. I liked making money. But I always did what I wanted to do. Money was never my first priority. May be because I always made it so easy.

But that was when I fell in love with pool. In live weather we realize it or not. We learn a lot from our brothers. And when I seen Whisky a Go Go that reminded me of the olden days. And we don't get to go back in time. And do it over again.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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does it still fit??......:heh

I wish it did Larry - it's 2 sizes too small now...:(



Luke, do you remember a tavern on the Strip, just east and across the street from the Whisky A-GoGo, I think on the corner of Alta Loma Rd? They had 2-3 bar boxes, and the one in front had continuous small action. It was a gold mine for me because there were only a few good players. But there was one guy I had trouble with... Your historical picture puts me in mind of him.;)

I went to Ye Billiard Den a number of times in those days, and I may have seen you

~Doc


I used to go to the Whisky (and the Troubadour a lot), but No Doc, I didn't/don't know that bar. The bar that I used to go to was the strip club - "The Pink Pussycat" - which was just one or two blocks down from the Billiard Den. They had two barboxes in the front of the club - there wasn't a lot of pool action there, mostly drunk businessmen to hustle - but anyways, I mostly went there to score the topless dancer girls..:heh..if you were a good looking guy, those 'free love', before-aids existed days back then, were unbelievable.

- Ghost
 

keoneyo

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There were a couple of bar box places in that area. Barneys Beanery was one west of Ye Billiard Den. It was a cool place except one night a guy came in and got beat for $50 and pulled a gun. The bartender a friend of mine tried to stop it and the guy killed him right there.
The action died after that.
As far as strip and porn shops Santa Monica Blvd was the place. There was the Largo and the Body Shop. 2 old time places. Youre right Luke the sex was flowing and the Freak outs were unbelievable.
The thing was the hoy polloi used to mesh with the rockers and the hippies.
The Trip was a big rock club along with Pandoras Box and Dino's supper club was next to them owned by Dean Martin.
I worked the Book Circus on the graveyard. All the stars came late at night in undercover and bought a lot of porn from the back room. I used to do home deliveries at night and used to cash their checks at Schwabs. I cant tell you the major stars that were buying off me and my partners. Lot of it was kinky stuff. Everybody had a racket in those days.
I remember Claude a black player who used to take shoe orders from his clientele then take them off at the table.
 

beatle

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barneys beanery was a cool place and okay action when i would go over when the pool room was full of knockers for the night.

everyone wanted to play me in the pool room and got mad when i wouldnt and only played certain guys. winston played well but couldnt carry the weight from a guy that never ever drew his cueball back. he had money when i played him.
 

NH Steve

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Yeah Irvs was right next to the Raincheck room. Diliberto used to take his breaks there. A lot of deals went down there. I remember Winston. Another black guy that used to hang out there was JJ. He did all the video tapes in the early years of the matches. He now works for Ernie at Gina cue as security.

I remember when Cecil Tugwell got out of the army he used to play on the back table. He was the sweetest kid. Then he got into drugs and just turned into a different animal. One of the most talented guys I ever seen.

You remember Black Rudy? He was always flush and liked to bet high.Lenny Moore also had a lot of heart. Some real tough characters.
This would probably be Rudy -- a Stardust photo courtesy Mark Griffin.
 

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mr3cushion

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Yeah Irvs was right next to the Raincheck room. Diliberto used to take his breaks there. A lot of deals went down there. I remember Winston. Another black guy that used to hang out there was JJ. He did all the video tapes in the early years of the matches. He now works for Ernie at Gina cue as security.

I remember when Cecil Tugwell got out of the army he used to play on the back table. He was the sweetest kid. Then he got into drugs and just turned into a different animal. One of the most talented guys I ever seen.

You remember Black Rudy? He was always flush and liked to bet high. Lenny Moore also had a lot of heart. Some real tough characters.

Who knows what Martin Scorsese movie, that Lenny Moore's character, was NOT portrayed in such a flattering light?

Artie and Keone, PLEASE don't give it up too quickly, I know you guys have the answer!
 
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bstroud

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Anyone remember the ring game at the Back Room in LA.

Everyone in the area played. No one was bared.

Bill S.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Anyone remember the ring game at the Back Room in LA.

Everyone in the area played. No one was bared.

Bill S.


Well, not nobody else :D, but if I hadda been there, I would have positively allowed Ewa Mataya Laurance to be 'bared'....:heh
 

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wincardona

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Who knows what Martin Scorsese movie, that Lenny Moore's character, was NOT portrayed in such a flattering light?

Artie and Keone, PLEASE don't give it up too quickly, I know you guys have the answer!

True story, Lenny Moore was a cool guy and triple smart back in the day, I knew Lenny well. Later in his life he worked for Artie in Las Vegas "moving money" a term used for betting on sports for other people. He was portrayed by the great actor James Woods a "pimp" going by the name of Lester Diamond. Ginger McKenna , portrayed by the beautiful actress Sharon Stone was Lester Diamonds call girl, and then married to Sam "Ace" Rothstein, who was portrayed by the great Robert De Niro. This movie was well written and a true account of how things actually went down in Las Vegas in the 70's starting in 1973. Rothstein was hired by the mob to run their operation at the Star Dust Hotel in Vegas he was a sports mastermind who eventually fell for Ginger McKenna and then marries her and then the "roller coaster" ride starts.

I remember this time in Las Vegas well and this movie depicts those times accurately, if you missed it get it and watch it.

Bill Incardona
 

mr3cushion

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True story, Lenny Moore was a cool guy and triple smart back in the day, I knew Lenny well. Later in his life he worked for Artie in Las Vegas "moving money" a term used for betting on sports for other people. He was portrayed by the great actor James Woods a "pimp" going by the name of Lester Diamond. Ginger McKenna , portrayed by the beautiful actress Sharon Stone was Lester Diamonds call girl, and then married to Sam "Ace" Rothstein, who was portrayed by the great Robert De Niro. This movie was well written and a true account of how things actually went down in Las Vegas in the 70's starting in 1973. Rothstein was hired by the mob to run their operation at the Star Dust Hotel in Vegas he was a sports mastermind who eventually fell for Ginger McKenna and then marries her and then the "roller coaster" ride starts.

I remember this time in Las Vegas well and this movie depicts those times accurately, if you missed it get it and watch it.

Bill Incardona


I DOGGED it Billy, I forgot to ban you from the guessing! But, You're 100% correct! I spent a little time around Lenny with, "Pancho," He was a great admirer of people with talent, not to say he didn't have any of his own.
 

keoneyo

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Lenny always had a beautiful broad with him. Preferably a blond. My buddy Bobby Minkow had a regular game with Lenny. $50 9-ball which in '68 was a lot of money. Bobby was only 20 at the time. But had the heart of a lion.
I took him with me on a run up into Trousdale Estates (the rich part of Beverly Hills) to do a deal up there. I was 20 also. We were at a big pop stars house and the guy started to renege on the deal. Bobby took over the discussion and convinced the guy to be reasonable and handled it like a champ. The singing star handed me a check and told me to cash it at Schwabs drugstore where he had a running account as it was midnight. I balked at first as I was only dealing in cash. But Bobby cooled me down and we left. The clerk eyeballed me at Schwabs as we were in pool hall outfits, and the boss said "cash it" the moneys good.
Funny as a teenager we danced to that guys songs all the while having a certain smile if you know what I mean.
Wish I knew what happened to Minkow. He was a real mensch.
 

keoneyo

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Tell you a little story about Jimmy Woods. I was working on a film in 1976 called Eyewitness with him and William Hurt, Sigourney Weaver, etc. I think it was Morgan Freemans first film when he was doing Electric Company a kids show on PBS. A zooma zooma zooma zoom zoom zoom!
The director was a big name after directing Bullitt, Peter Yates.
One day on the set and there were like 20 Asian extras and me on the set.
I was in the middle of a scene with just me and Jimmy with the extras behind us.
Yates looks over at me and says, "Hey you! Move to your left". Now I was getting paid beaucoup bucks and had a contract with billing. I was startled at this rude behavior. I said "you mean ME???". "Yeah YOU, he said, move over to camera right!". I said "Uh I have a name and its on the contract which you signed since youre one of the execs. Go read it".
Jimmy turns around and says out loud "OK KEONE, Lets do it, KEONE.
Jimmy was trying to show respect and put Yates in his place.
Later Yates came up to me on the sly and apologized. He said "I only did that cause your name was uncommon and difficult". I looked at him and smiled and said "Well if you can remember SIGOURNEY you can easily say KEONE."
I never forgot Jimmy for that. He stood up for me. No one ever forgot my name after that.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Ghost I didn't know you hung out there. I was living there from 1967 to 1971.
I lived on Hayvenhurst right behind the Starwood nite club. I had the graveyard shift at the Book Circus up the street. I played Richard Pryor straight pool one night there and watched every hustler known to man pass through.
Hawaiian Brian, Pancho, Richie Ambrose, Crazy Bruce, Brooklyn Butch, Dalton Leong, Marvin Henderson, Freddy, Little Franky, Hollywood Jack, Lenny Moore, Cuban Joe, Bernie Schwartz, Jerry the Greek and his dog King, Cripple Shorty, etc. etc. I played every nite with an old black man Mr Murray who loved one pocket and he was teaching me the game for $2 a game. I finally beat him and he stopped playing me.


I was lucky because Brooklyn Butch took a liking to me, and told me to let him know if anybody ever gave me any trouble...one of the reasons he liked me was because I was from back east and I was Italian...even though it was 1969, Butch was still sporting that 50's Italian wiseguy look, short slick hair, black dress pants and shoes always, etc...and the funny thing was, he was always on my case to cut off my long, well past my shoulders, hair - he would constantly say to me "Get a fukkin' haircut will ya, a good lookin' young Italian guy should not be havin' that fukkin hippie-'fanook' hair" (only my fellow paisan's on here will know what fanook means)...:D.....Butch was a character...I've got a picture of me playing Butch 9ball at the Billiard Den - if I can find it I'll post it up.

- Ghost
 
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jrhendy

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I was lucky because Brooklyn Butch took a liking to me, and told me to let him know if anybody ever gave me any trouble...one of the reasons he liked me was because I was from back east and I was Italian...even though it was 1969, Butch was still sporting that 50's Italian wiseguy look, short slick hair, black dress pants always, etc...and the funny thing was, he was always on my case to cut off my long, well past my shoulders, hair - he would constantly say to me "Get a fukkin' haircut will ya, a good lookin' young Italian guy should not be havin' that fukkin hippie-'fanook' hair" (only my fellow paisan's on here will know what fanook means...:D.....Butch was a character.

- Ghost

Butch still is a character. I talked to him right after Freddie passed. He lives in Escondido north of San Diego.

I met him in LA at one of the joints and we played some $5 three red ball snooker on the 5 x 10. I had him stuck $15 and a friend of mine walked in and said "You know who you are playing? I said No. He said that is Brooklyn Butch, you piss him off he might knock you out and turn the table over on you".

Butch won the next three games, we went out to eat and have been friends ever since.
 
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