What to do?

It's hill-hill in a tournament match - you're playing a good player - it's your shot, you need one ball, he needs them all - you have pocket A - your frozen on the rail - the pockets are pretty tight, approx. 4-1/4"...

What to do?...I was in this position in a past tournament...

Try to win it now, and lag the 10 in at pocket speed? - not an easy shot, shooting off the rail...and if you miss you might leave a bank on the 10 for him to shoot after he makes his 4ball - or, if you miss the 10, he might be able to bank the 10 into the 4ball some kind of way...he could, but probably wouldn't get more than two balls if you miss...

Or, make his 4ball, and play it out with your 7-5 lead - you'll leave the straight back bank on the 10ball for him, but it's not an easy bank/bank-angle...

What's your choice?

- Ghost

PS, There is no scratch in the side if shooting the 10 ball.

Shoot the 10.

You make it, game over.

You miss it, odds are he's not running out.

One Pocket Ghost said:

It's hill-hill in a tournament match - you're playing a good player - it's your shot, you need one ball, he needs them all - you have pocket A - your frozen on the rail - the pockets are tight, 4-1/4"...

What to do?...I was in this position in a past tournament...

Try to win it now, and lag the 10 in at pocket speed? - not an easy shot, shooting off the rail...and if you miss you might leave a bank on the 10 for him to shoot after he makes his 4ball - or, if you miss the 10, he might be able to bank the 10 into the 4ball some kind of way...he could, but probably wouldn't get more than two balls if you miss...

Or, make his 4ball, and play it out with your 7-5 lead - you'll leave the straight back bank on the 10ball for him, but it's not an easy bank/bank-angle...

What's your choice?

- Ghost

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I'm rolling the 4 ball in... I don't want to give up 2-3 balls by shooting an aggressive shot when I'm frozen on the rail.

That bank on the 10 is no hanger.

Dud

If I was betting high enough I'd shoot the 10 at my pocket. If I wasn't betting high enough I might just take it out of play.

Cowboy Dennis said:

If I was betting high enough I'd shoot the 10 at my pocket. If I wasn't betting high enough I might just take it out of play.

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why would you take the tougher shot if more money was riding on it??

I would shoot the 4 in, pocket speed, rail first. If I decided to shoot the 10, I would not be lagging it. I would hit it hard enough to get it back up table if I miss it.

I'm not shooting at the ten ball no matter what. It looks like you could scratch in the side if you try to make it.

Equal players? You shoot in the 4 ball and play the odds.

Bill Stroud

bstroud said:

I'm not shooting at the ten ball no matter what. It looks like you could scratch in the side if you try to make it.

Equal players? You shoot in the 4 ball and play the odds.

Bill Stroud

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I totally agree, I would contemplate the 10 but if the scratch is in the equation then the shots off. If there is no scratch it would depend on how I was shooting but most likely the best shot is just making the 4 ball.

I will be shooting the 10 every time

ace said:

I will be shooting the 10 every time

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I might shoot Ace if I was not frozen to the rail and pocket size do come into the equation and pre-shot thought process.

Wheelchair bound

Wheelchair bound

If I was wheelchair bound, I would still shoot the 10 and try and pick up my check. Ask yourself, what would you want your opponent to shoot if the situation was reversed? Do you want him shooting at the session ball, where even if he misses you still dont figure to win the next inning?

Beard

Duck !!!

Duck !!!

I would do what I normally do, shoot the ten, pocket speed. After I opened my eyes to see if I won, I'd move on in the tournament.

4 1/4 in. pockets, I'd probably try to move the 4 ball. If that didn't look possible, I'd hit the 10 ball with pocket speed, no chance to scratch. Maybe leave it tough with good speed.
Rod.

fred bentivegna said:

If I was wheelchair bound, I would still shoot the 10 and try and pick up my check. Ask yourself, what would you want your opponent to shoot if the situation was reversed? Do you want him shooting at the session ball, where even if he misses you still dont figure to win the next inning?

Beard

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Ditto, I would just stay in the elecriic chair, and fry...if I couldn't go for that ball, at pocket speed.....But I suppose Ghoatsy has some earth-shaking, clever move in that spot ?..If so, he needs--> :help

Shoot the 10 firmly and if it's missed make sure it was hit hard enough to end up all the way uptable (in the kitchen preferably)

I would think for those who would shoot the 10 ball that you would have to feel confident you're going to make it, if not I wouldn't advise shooting it. The other options would be to either roll the 4 ball in and stay there, or play rail first on the 4 ball hard enough to travel three rails with the cue ball and leave nothing, in regard to a return shot on the 10 ball.

Considering the angle on the 10 ball shot it needs to be hit very accurately not to give up a return shot if missed. Understanding this I would choose the last option, shooting the 4 ball rail first with speed, playing the cue ball three cushions ending up near the side pocket on your opponents side of the table with the cue ball.

On 4-1/4" pockets you would do better if you made your opponent earn every thing, instead of starting him out with something relatively easy.

Shooting the 4 ball in will leave the shooter with a huge advantage needing only one ball to his opponents three balls, and it's even a bigger advantage on 4-1/4" pockets.

Playing on a big pocket table i'm probably shooting the 10 ball, and figure to either make it or hang it.
Billy I.

tonygreen said:

Shoot the 10 firmly and if it's missed make sure it was hit hard enough to end up all the way uptable (in the kitchen preferably)

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Sorry Tony, but I think you will find, that if you were to go for the 10 (which you should) you would be ill advised to shoot it hard...If you missed it, many bad things could happen...double kiss, double the pocket, and spit out toward the other guys hole, etc...In that case, you would be giving your oppo, a good chance, to get two balls, instead of one, play shape on a 3 railer, and be right back in the game...If your not comfortable shooting at 'pocket speeds' (especially banks)..I would suggest strongly, working on that part of your game.

Note;..Edit for Dr. Bill, Billy, you are sounding like a true 9 baller now...Is "pocket speed" one of your "glaring" weaknesses ?.. JK JK.....If I were to shoot that shot (even off the rail) I would make, or jaw it, 80 %, or more, and would almost never leave a return bank, after my oppo makes the 4..(min. 5 yrs ago)...
....Oh, I get it, you just wanted to gig the Beard...OK, carry on)..

If I was betting on him...

If I was betting on him...

SJDinPHX said:

Sorry Tony, but I think you will find, that if you were to go for the 10 (which you should) you would be ill advised to shoot it hard...If you missed it, many bad things could happen...double kiss, double the pocket, and spit out toward the other guys hole, etc...In that case, you would be giving your oppo, a good chance, to get two balls, instead of one, play shape on a 3 railer, and be right back in the game...If your not comfortable shooting at 'pocket speeds' (especially banks)..I would suggest strongly, working on that part of your game.

Note;..Edit for Dr. Bill, Billy, you are sounding like a true 9 baller now...Is "pocket speed" one of your "glaring" weaknesses ?.. JK JK.....If I were to shoot that shot (even off the rail) I would make, or jaw it, 80 %, or more, and would almost never leave a return bank, after my oppo makes the 4..(min. 5 yrs ago)...
....Oh, I get it, you just wanted to gig the Beard...OK, carry on)..

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... and Billy Boy didnt shoot at the 10 ball for all the money, I would turn violent.
Dont worry tho, he does know better. I would like him to provide me a list, especially with his name on it, of all the players that like to see their opponent rolling at the session ball when you need 4 and two are completely out of play.

Beard

If he doesnt back off on this point, I am going to tell Artie what he said.

wincardona said:

I would think for those who would shoot the 10 ball that you would have to feel confident you're going to make it, if not I wouldn't advise shooting it. The other options would be to either roll the 4 ball in and stay there, or play rail first on the 4 ball hard enough to travel three rails with the cue ball and leave nothing, in regard to a return shot on the 10 ball.

Considering the angle on the 10 ball shot it needs to be hit very accurately not to give up a return shot if missed. Understanding this I would choose the last option, shooting the 4 ball rail first with speed, playing the cue ball three cushions ending up near the side pocket on your opponents side of the table with the cue ball.

On 4-1/4" pockets you would do better if you made your opponent earn every thing, instead of starting him out with something relatively easy.

Shooting the 4 ball in will leave the shooter with a huge advantage needing only one ball to his opponents three balls, and it's even a bigger advantage on 4-1/4" pockets.

Playing on a big pocket table i'm probably shooting the 10 ball, and figure to either make it or hang it.
Billy I.

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See, part of the reasoning for shooting it at the hole is this.

How many other non bank opportunities am i going to get?

Although i definitely like the 3 rail shot option you stated, but from that point on, you are betting the game on you out moving them, or them making an error first to sell out a shot.

Can't fault the reasoning on the shot options being determined by pocket size, but the balls are still in positions that basically prevent them from running out with ease, IMO. It's not like they have the mumps, and you are taking a flyer at some bank while ignoring everything in front of their hole.
Shooting at the 10 can win for you, but doesn't necessarily lose you the game if you miss. You still have endgame options that are still in your favor, % wise.

If i make the 4 and go on to lose from there, i know i will be dying to have the shot at the 10 ball back. That is just a terrible feeling when that happens.
As such, i think the shooters, feel that as long as they take the shot at their hole for the win, at least they gave it a good effort. Even if they lose, they have more piece of mind, for having shot directly at their hole for the win.

SJDinPHX said:

Sorry Tony, but I think you will find, that if you were to go for the 10 (which you should) you would be ill advised to shoot it hard...If you missed it, many bad things could happen...double kiss, double the pocket, and spit out toward the other guys hole, etc...In that case, you would be giving your oppo, a good chance, to get two balls, instead of one, play shape on a 3 railer, and be right back in the game...If your not comfortable shooting at 'pocket speeds' (especially banks)..I would suggest strongly, working on that part of your game.

Note;..Edit for Dr. Bill, Billy, you are sounding like a true 9 baller now...Is "pocket speed" one of your "glaring" weaknesses ?.. JK JK.....If I were to shoot that shot (even off the rail) I would make, or jaw it, 80 %, or more, and would almost never leave a return bank, after my oppo makes the 4..(min. 5 yrs ago)...
....Oh, I get it, you just wanted to gig the Beard...OK, carry on)..

Click to expand...

Dick, looks to me that the starting position of the cue ball is either frozen or almost frozen to the end rail. If so then this shot is not only a difficult hit in terms of accuracy(which is needed) but in speed as well.(which is needed) Also playing on 4-1/4" pockets your accuracy and speed must be exceptionally good, less balls will hang up and go in on 4-1/4" pockets resulting in more return shots.

The above opinion is based off of past experiences and not on disagreeing with The Beard, even though I don't usually find that hard to do.

Billy I.