efren/scott #678

LSJohn

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The further toward the side rail, the least likely Scott would go for a thin cut on the 9. And yes, Efren hit it bad. But it was the wrong shot anyhow. It left Scott a nice little return.

~Doc

The way I'm seeing it, if Efren drew straight back to the short rail, the 2-rail was on or nearly on, and if missed I'd want Scott shooting the 9.
 

gulfportdoc

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My feeling is, unless they were playing in a swamp, for the 2-railer to come that short on a Gold Crown, Efren must have hit the OB at the right of center-- for whatever reason he did so.

~Doc
 

androd

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My feeling is, unless they were playing in a swamp, for the 2-railer to come that short on a Gold Crown, Efren must have hit the OB at the right of center-- for whatever reason he did so.

~Doc

Without at least a 1/2 ball cut, the draw will stiff the OB like that.
Rod.
 

wincardona

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Reyes misjudged the shot imo because the angle of the hit needed to pocket the two rail bank would send the cue ball toward the top pocket using a draw stroke. He simply over compensated when he made the adjustment with the hit to stay safely away from the top pocket possible scratch. The shot choice was fine, the hit was executed poorly is the way I see it.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Reyes misjudged the shot imo because the angle of the hit needed to pocket the two rail bank would send the cue ball toward the top pocket using a draw stroke. He simply over compensated when he made the adjustment with the hit to stay safely away from the top pocket possible scratch. The shot choice was fine, the hit was executed poorly is the way I see it.

Dr. Bill[/QUOTE
When shooting shots like this two rail bank we must be cognizant on the hit needed to stay away from leaving a return shot for our opponent. Hitting this shot "long" would be to hit it on the "nonprofessional" side, however, hitting it too short will also leave a return shot but not nearly as often, unless the shot is hit poorly, which was the case.

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

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2 railing the 8 ball was a bad choice in this spot. Assuming you don't make it(which it is really low percentage) if you don't leave the 8 ball on the end rail it is useless.. Scott can bank it into the 9 ball from here and if the 8 ball was closer to Efrens side it would just be an easier bank for Scott. The only way you can possibly get in trouble is by doing exactly what Efren did.. He should have moved the 9 ball for sure in this spot.
 

Frank Almanza

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2 railing the 8 ball was a bad choice in this spot. Assuming you don't make it(which it is really low percentage) if you don't leave the 8 ball on the end rail it is useless.. Scott can bank it into the 9 ball from here and if the 8 ball was closer to Efrens side it would just be an easier bank for Scott. The only way you can possibly get in trouble is by doing exactly what Efren did.. He should have moved the 9 ball for sure in this spot.

Exactly my thoughts.
 

wincardona

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Isn't that something, all along I thought two railing the 8ball was a good shot, and I still do. Prop bet.:D

Had Reyes hit the shot accurately the cue ball will end up nearer the far pocket short of the first diamond. From there there will be no return shot on the 8ball, and defending against both the 8ball and 9ball will be problematic. For a good player this option isn't that difficult to execute the way it should be executed for good results. Imo the shooter has the edge for sure shooting this option, providing he's a decent player.


Dr. Bill
 
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onepockethacker

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Isn't that something, all along I thought two railing the 8ball was a good shot, and I still do. Prop bet.:D

Had Reyes hit the shot accurately the cue ball will end up nearer the far pocket short of the first diamond. From there there will be no return shot on the 8ball, and defending against both the 8ball and 9ball will be problematic. For a good player this option isn't that difficult to execute the way it should be executed for good results. Imo the shooter has the edge for sure shooting this option, providing he's a decent player.


Dr. Bill

You can get 1 ball max or lose 2... great odds:rolleyes: If you dont make it or hang it you are going to have to balls right by Scotts hole to deal with.. Frank is with me on this and thats good enough for me.. He just might be the smartest player on this site
P.S. Unless you hang it or make it you will give up a return shot.
 

wincardona

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You can get 1 ball max or lose 2... great odds:rolleyes: If you dont make it or hang it you are going to have to balls right by Scotts hole to deal with.. Frank is with me on this and thats good enough for me.. He just might be the smartest player on this site
P.S. Unless you hang it or make it you will give up a return shot.

Stop it already, this shot is a no brainer for good players. I'll take one of 50 players that I know and bet that they will get the first ball more often than not, matter of fact i'll do it myself.

Then there are the times that the 8ball will end up on a kiss angle for the incoming player, he'll then have to figure out how not to sell out a shot on the 8 or 9ball.

After this shot is executed the 8ball will be much deeper in his quadrant of the table, you're looking at a result that was hit poorly and making a judgement off of that result.:sorry Reyes shot the shot and both Tom and the Ghost agreed that it wasn't a bad shot, matter of fact why don't you ask them what shot they would of shot in this situation.

WWYD???:rolleyes:

Dr. Bill
 
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onepockethacker

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Stop it already, this shot is a no brainer for good players. I'll take one of 50 players that I know and bet that they will get the first ball more often than not, matter of fact i'll do it myself.

Then there are the times that the 8ball will end up on a kiss angle for the incoming player, he'll then have to figure out how not to sell out a shot on the 8 or 9ball.

After this shot is executed the 8ball will be much deeper in his quadrant of the table, you're looking at a result that was hit poorly and making a judgement off of that result.:sorry Reyes shot the shot and both Tom and the Ghost agreed that it wasn't a bad shot, matter of fact why don't you ask them what shot they would of shot in this situation.

WWYD???:rolleyes:

Dr. Bill

Maybe I would move the 9 ball and leave you, Tom and ghost with your diicks in your hands:frus Its real simple Billy.. Whats the most efren could have gotten? answer 1 What could he lose? answer 2 .

Once again for the 3 wise men.:lol:lol If you don't make or hang it up you will be at a disadvantage...PERIOD
 

wincardona

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Maybe I would move the 9 ball and leave you, Tom and ghost with your diicks in your hands:frus Its real simple Billy.. Whats the most efren could have gotten? answer 1 What could he lose? answer 2 .

Once again for the 3 wise men.:lol:lol If you don't make or hang it up you will be at a disadvantage...PERIOD

Arguing this point with you is fruitless, you obviously have no backing up in you. I stated that I would gamble on this option being a good one for a good player, if you feel differently all you need to do is show up, or shut up
.cabbage head

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

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Arguing this point with you is fruitless, you obviously have no backing up in you. I stated that I would gamble on this option being a good one for a good player, if you feel differently all you need to do is show up, or shut up
.cabbage head

Dr. Bill

I will play YOU, Tom or Ghost from this position. First any of you guys can shoot the 2 railer on the 8 with you guys ahead 3 to 2 and all balls in the same position. Then I will clear the 9 ball, up 3 to 2 and all balls in same position. We can play 6 ahead. Lets see how you guys do.:heh:heh
P.S. please now don't come back with some lame excuse about having someone else shoot instead of one of you guys against me because you guys are saying you would shoot it against Scott frost for christs sake
 

onepockethacker

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So in conclusion boys and girls todays lesson is if your opponent has a ball by his hole and you have a LOW percentage make option offensive shot which will leave an easy return... You move the ball by your opponents hole so you dont have to figure out how to remove 2 balls from his hole or watch him make 2 freebies that you gift wrap him..
P.S. Incidentally if you want to find this lesson in the one pocket book... you will find it on page 1 right after they tell you the first to 8 balls wins!!
 

gulfportdoc

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2 railing the 8 ball was a bad choice in this spot. Assuming you don't make it(which it is really low percentage) if you don't leave the 8 ball on the end rail it is useless.. Scott can bank it into the 9 ball from here and if the 8 ball was closer to Efrens side it would just be an easier bank for Scott. The only way you can possibly get in trouble is by doing exactly what Efren did.. He should have moved the 9 ball for sure in this spot.
I agree that the 8 ball was the wrong shot. Efren was reluctant to enter into a wedge game, and he was trying to prove that he could make a tough shot in a poor circumstance.

Frank suggested coming off the right of the 9, bringing the CB up table via two cushions. That seems a little flirtatious with the corner pocket to me. I might kick two rails to the 9, kicking it up toward the wedge. I don't know if the 3-railer is on. You'd have to hit the CB high in order to bring the CB back up table.

~Doc
 

Mkbtank

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efren/scott #678

The 8 is the shot that I saw first, and that I want to shoot. That's how I know it's the wrong shot lol. I must say I agree with the hacker that it was not the best shot here. For the reasons he mentioned. He can get one or give up 2. And he's up in the score. And if the 8 doesn't go, and is then banked into the 9, the cue could likely be placed stuck behind the wedge afterwards. Then your one ball advantage looks perilous and there are two balls in your opponents pocket area. Just my late .02.
 

Tom Wirth

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Rob's scenario is pure speculation not based in fact. He is assuming the final resting position of both the cue ball and the eight ball. He also assumes his shot will be hit with great accuracy. Neither of these two assumptions need be the case.

He has not convinced me that the two rail shot on the eight is not the right shot. This shot has to be butchered to surrender that bank. The reason I like the bank is; if hit moderately well, it will force Scott to play defense off the eight and this may give up a bank on the nine. Let's face it, not too much harm can be done either way. The score is low and the balls are out of play. So get real!

Rob, you are so gun ho on some of your selections. Remember that four railer a post or two ago? And you're reluctant to take this shot! Where is the consistency in that?

Tom
 
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wincardona

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I will play YOU, Tom or Ghost from this position. First any of you guys can shoot the 2 railer on the 8 with you guys ahead 3 to 2 and all balls in the same position. Then I will clear the 9 ball, up 3 to 2 and all balls in same position. We can play 6 ahead. Lets see how you guys do.:heh:heh
P.S. please now don't come back with some lame excuse about having someone else shoot instead of one of you guys against me because you guys are saying you would shoot it against Scott frost for christs sake

Ok, you got me but we don't need to play the whole game out simply because the debate is about this particular option, not about who wins the game.

This is what I propose.
I will two rail the 8ball and you then will shoot your return shot, then I will shoot my shot because the initial option with banking the 8ball carries a value for the shooter on his next inning. After I shoot my 2nd. and final inning you then will have one last inning to pocket balls. The winner will be the player who pockets the most balls in the two innings they both have. Don't forget, if I pocket the 8ball with the two railer then you do not get your inning because there is no return shot for you. That's one of the reasons the two rail shot is the correct shot, if I make it I then move the 9ball. Of course you do understand that, right?

That's the way this prop will be played to determine if the two railer on the 8ball is the right shot or a bad shot.

Your reasoning for the 8ball two railer being the wrong shot is because I can only get one ball or lose two balls, my proposal fits perfectly for you with your reason, lets play. Or any one else can play who thinks the two rail shot on the 8ball is the wrong shot. The two rail shot on the 8ball will manufacture more balls for the shooter than it will for his opponent, that's the debate in a nut shell, fellas.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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The 8 is the shot that I saw first, and that I want to shoot. That's how I know it's the wrong shot lol. I must say I agree with the hacker that it was not the best shot here. For the reasons he mentioned. He can get one or give up 2. And he's up in the score. And if the 8 doesn't go, and is then banked into the 9, the cue could likely be placed stuck behind the wedge afterwards. Then your one ball advantage looks perilous and there are two balls in your opponents pocket area. Just my late .02.

Mitch, if the two rail shot with the 8ball manufactures more balls for the shooter than it does for his opponent then the two rail option has to be the correct shot, it's that simple. Forget about how many balls the shooter can get with the two railer, or how many balls he can lose if it's executed poorly. That's not the way you should look at this lay out. There are only two balls that are up for grabs and I have the first legitimate shot to score one, then fight for the other one. It's only fair that both players get two innings to manufacture balls off of, the results will be predicated on the residual value or devalue the 8ball shot manufactures, not the 3rd or fourth or tenth shot down the line since in reality there are only two balls up for grabs and the residual effect will be gone usually after two innings.

Dr. Bill
 
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