Hwypt

Tom Wirth

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I've been asked to supply a wwyd dealing with an open table and a clear shot to your pocket. Your opponent has just scratched and you need eight balls. All fifteen balls are on the table. The question is: How can you best navigate this situation so as to exact the greatest damage to your foe? Degree of difficulty on a scale of 1-5.....Well, you tell me. :)

Tom
 

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tylerdurden

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I've been asked to supply a wwyd dealing with an open table and a clear shot to your pocket. Your opponent has just scratched and you need eight balls. All fifteen balls are on the table. The question is: How can you best navigate this situation so as to exact the greatest damage to your foe? Degree of difficulty on a scale of 1-5.....Well, you tell me. :)

Tom

Is this a wwyd on the first shot? Well, I would def shoot that ball closest my hole and set the cb to the left of the spot as we look at it, and go side rail, end rail with the cb and between those 2 balls closest to the end rail on his side. If you get a good angle on the ball on the top rail it is nice cus you can shoot it, go into the stack and open up a few and have the one there to shoot next. I think this is the best path/plan to get out here.
 

Cory in dc

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Is this a wwyd on the first shot? Well, I would def shoot that ball closest my hole and set the cb to the left of the spot as we look at it, and go side rail, end rail with the cb and between those 2 balls closest to the end rail on his side. If you get a good angle on the ball on the top rail it is nice cus you can shoot it, go into the stack and open up a few and have the one there to shoot next. I think this is the best path/plan to get out here.

I think I would start with the 1-ball because it's easy now but could bite me later since it's in the way of the 14 ball (I think that's the 14). I'd hit it with a little speed, trying to clip the 2 ball, which should open the stack a little and leave me with the 15 or 11. If I miss the 2-ball wide, then I'm likely to come out for the 14 ball, which I opened up by shooting the 1.
 

wincardona

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I like placing the cue ball on the angle to play the 13ball with a fluid follow stroke and apply 1/2 tip of high left english sending the cue ball two cushions into the bottom of the stack. This shot carries a great deal of potential for several reasons, i'll explain.

Shooting the shot in this fashion you will increase your accuracy with the hit along with moving the cue ball in a positive direction opening up more balls to complete your run. Also the speed of the shot is easier to feel and control because you will be stroking the ball with a med hard speed with a good follow, and your cue ball path will be more predictable. It's hard to over stroke this shot because the stack will control the cue ball keeping it in a desirable location. This hit will often guide the cue ball off the stack to end up with a shot on the 15ball, a ball that would be ideal to fall on. From there you should have a menu of options.

Bill Incardona
 

bstroud

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I like moving the cue ball left about one inch and shooting the 9 ball with a little high and a lot of right and playing position for the one ball. If you happen to hit the right side of the 15 ball you are still OK.

If you are on one of the super tight tables I would shoot a similar shot but play to hit the right side of the 15 ball and use less English.

Bill S.
 

tylerdurden

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I like moving the cue ball left about one inch and shooting the 9 ball with a little high and a lot of right and playing position for the one ball. If you happen to hit the right side of the 15 ball you are still OK.

If you are on one of the super tight tables I would shoot a similar shot but play to hit the right side of the 15 ball and use less English.

Bill S.

I see your confusion, the wwyd to the other hole seems like a hanger, but that is the hole that is yours on the right.

I have a question here: if a guy happens to shoot at the wrong hole on you, and just so happens to not leave you a shot after shooting at the wrong hole, do you let him shoot again even though he shot a ball in your hole? What do the rules say about this?
 

androd

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I see your confusion, the wwyd to the other hole seems like a hanger, but that is the hole that is yours on the right.

I have a question here: if a guy happens to shoot at the wrong hole on you, and just so happens to not leave you a shot after shooting at the wrong hole, do you let him shoot again even though he shot a ball in your hole? What do the rules say about this?

I know nothing about any stinking rules, but if you let me shoot again, it's now my pocket. :)
Rod.
 

FastEddieF.

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I like placing the cue ball on the angle to play the 13ball with a fluid follow stroke and apply 1/2 tip of high left english sending the cue ball two cushions into the bottom of the stack. This shot carries a great deal of potential for several reasons, i'll explain.

Shooting the shot in this fashion you will increase your accuracy with the hit along with moving the cue ball in a positive direction opening up more balls to complete your run. Also the speed of the shot is easier to feel and control because you will be stroking the ball with a med hard speed with a good follow, and your cue ball path will be more predictable. It's hard to over stroke this shot because the stack will control the cue ball keeping it in a desirable location. This hit will often guide the cue ball off the stack to end up with a shot on the 15ball, a ball that would be ideal to fall on. From there you should have a menu of options.

Bill Incardona
The Doctor is right,I agree 100%
 

Cary

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I believe I'd start with the 13, run five more (the last one being a straightback on the 9) and, unless I've managed to nudge a ball or two out of the stack, punt.
 

bstroud

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I see your confusion, the wwyd to the other hole seems like a hanger, but that is the hole that is yours on the right.

Sorry wrong pocket.

I would shoot the 13 and play to get straight on the 15.
Shoot the 15 stop the cue ball.
Cut the ball on the end rail, break the stack open with shape in the one ball.

Should be easy from there.

Bill S.
 

baby huey

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One of the most frequently missed shots in One Pocket is ball in hand behind the line. It sounds stupid but it is a really difficult shot to get the rhythm just right and to play position. The thirteen ball is just the kind of shot that can be missed trying too hard to get just the right position. So, I would be really focused on just making the ball and trying to get in the general direction of the next position ball. One Pocket can turn great ball strikers into dead out of stroke. Make the ball and move on.
 

Tom Wirth

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Well, If I am dispensing cookies, Dr. Bill gets it. And his explanation is spot on. For those of you who disagree with his choice you will have to back up your claim with a stronger case.

I will not add to the good Dr.'s analysis of his shot but I will address two of the other options which were provided. Please do not be offended because as I see it, it is all a matter of percentages.

First, The thought of playing the one ahead of the thirteen carries the risk of coming up dry or at least limiting the possibility of scoring heavily in this inning should the cue ball run directly into the ten ball which is on the bottom rail. This is a real possibility and therefore if a natural roll is used to shoot this shot, a draw stroke or a tempered shot with follow and inside English would have to be employed to avoid this from happening. All of this complicates a situation which is not necessary because of the option on the thirteen.

Second, and this shot has some merit but in my opinion is the weaker of the two best shots, is to play the thirteen and run the cue ball between the ten and fifteen. The problem with this option is two fold. The speed control on this shot is a concern. If solid position on the fifteen is not achieved there may not be a decent angle to get on the ten for the breakout and position on the one. And what happens should when shooting the thirteen the cue ball runs two rails into the fifteen either directly or to the high side? This shot has the potential of leaving the shooter with a one ball run followed up with a safety.

No, the Dr.'s choice is by far the best decision in this situation. His option is easy to execute, has much margin for error, and has back up possibilities with the ten ball or the one ball should things somehow not work quite as planned.

Below is the out come of having shot this shot as Bill described. Now the question is how do you run the seven remaining balls needed to win the game. A clue; the six ball is now dead in your hole but it is blocked by the one and the two will not pass the fourteen. Be specific.
 

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bstroud

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I really don't like turning the cue ball loose from that distance.

I practice a lot of 14/1 and that kind of shot often gets stuck in the stack with no shot. I would rather wait to be closer for the breakout.

Bill S.
 

Island Drive

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I really don't like turning the cue ball loose from that distance.

I practice a lot of 14/1 and that kind of shot often gets stuck in the stack with no shot. I would rather wait to be closer for the breakout.

Bill S.

Just punch the fifteen, looks like whitey can come 6'' or more down. This lets the cut angle of the ball do all your work, is nearly a cinch slice shot when your that close and playing good.
 
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Tom Wirth

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I really don't like turning the cue ball loose from that distance.

I practice a lot of 14/1 and that kind of shot often gets stuck in the stack with no shot. I would rather wait to be closer for the breakout.

Bill S.

Bill, I agree that it is possible that the cue ball could stay lodged in the back of the stack on a shot of this kind but it is not likely to do so given the angle of approach. For argument sake let us suppose the cue ball does remain in the stack. Because of the location of the one ball you will have an out with that shot which can continue the run and should somehow that option is blocked, there is still the bank on the fifteen. In other words, the percentages are highly in favor of having a second shot regardless of the final resting place of the cue ball. With all that being said, the shot Bill recommended is by far the best option with the highest percentage for success. JMO.

If anyone disagrees, they will have to convince me with pure logic.

Tom
 

unoperro

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I think this layout really separates the one pocket players from the wannabes.
Billys reply is great( surprise surprise).

Honestly if I play a unknown I am happy to scratch on the
break and leave them playing bih to see if I am in trouble.
 
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Island Drive

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I still think tho, the rail ball with a rolling lag on the 13 is by far the best percentage for speed control. This approach utilizes less arm swing speed with the exact same results. There's more going on with a pure cut and 3 around.
 

wincardona

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Well, If I am dispensing cookies, Dr. Bill gets it. And his explanation is spot on. For those of you who disagree with his choice you will have to back up your claim with a stronger case.

I will not add to the good Dr.'s analysis of his shot but I will address two of the other options which were provided. Please do not be offended because as I see it, it is all a matter of percentages.

First, The thought of playing the one ahead of the thirteen carries the risk of coming up dry or at least limiting the possibility of scoring heavily in this inning should the cue ball run directly into the ten ball which is on the bottom rail. This is a real possibility and therefore if a natural roll is used to shoot this shot, a draw stroke or a tempered shot with follow and inside English would have to be employed to avoid this from happening. All of this complicates a situation which is not necessary because of the option on the thirteen.

Second, and this shot has some merit but in my opinion is the weaker of the two best shots, is to play the thirteen and run the cue ball between the ten and fifteen. The problem with this option is two fold. The speed control on this shot is a concern. If solid position on the fifteen is not achieved there may not be a decent angle to get on the ten for the breakout and position on the one. And what happens should when shooting the thirteen the cue ball runs two rails into the fifteen either directly or to the high side? This shot has the potential of leaving the shooter with a one ball run followed up with a safety.

No, the Dr.'s choice is by far the best decision in this situation. His option is easy to execute, has much margin for error, and has back up possibilities with the ten ball or the one ball should things somehow not work quite as planned.

Below is the out come of having shot this shot as Bill described. Now the question is how do you run the seven remaining balls needed to win the game. A clue; the six ball is now dead in your hole but it is blocked by the one and the two will not pass the fourteen. Be specific.

Even though the 6ball is dead I wouldn't play my pattern to play for the 6ball because you first must clear the 10ball then the 1ball to get on the 6ball combo..that's not easy considering where the 1ball is positioned. What I would do and how I would be thinking in this type of a situation would be to play for a good angle off the 10ball after pocketing the 15ball to go into the stack..split hitting the 11ball and 6ball and leave the 1ball as an insurance ball to complete my run. Putting all my thoughts into getting to the 6ball combination could be futile if I don't get a good shot with the 1ball to drop for the combo, and like I said that's not easy so don't be fooled with the appealing dead 6ball.

If you can diagram the pattern to drop for the 6ball I would like to see it. The position of the 1ball is lying awkwardly and trying to get to the 1ball to drop for the combo may be a mistake. Jmo.

Bill Incardona
 

Tom Wirth

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Even though the 6ball is dead I wouldn't play my pattern to play for the 6ball because you first must clear the 10ball then the 1ball to get on the 6ball combo..that's not easy considering where the 1ball is positioned. What I would do and how I would be thinking in this type of a situation would be to play for a good angle off the 10ball after pocketing the 15ball to go into the stack..split hitting the 11ball and 6ball and leave the 1ball as an insurance ball to complete my run. Putting all my thoughts into getting to the 6ball combination could be futile if I don't get a good shot with the 1ball to drop for the combo, and like I said that's not easy so don't be fooled with the appealing dead 6ball.

If you can diagram the pattern to drop for the 6ball I would like to see it. The position of the 1ball is lying awkwardly and trying to get to the 1ball to drop for the combo may be a mistake. Jmo.

Bill Incardona

Bill, I do like the idea of using the ten to loosen the eleven and six balls while playing position on the one. My only concern with this shot is that the shot may leave the cue ball jacked up over the stack. This may result in trying to force the cue ball up table for the next shot in the sequence or settling for just cinching the one. Of course if this does not happen and you can get up table after shooting the one, you are home free.

To answer your question of how to best navigate off the one for position on the combination this can be done by acquiring the angle shown in the picture below. ( white lines) This should be relatively easy to accomplish with the proper angle on the ten. From there using two rail shape to come around the stack a moderately decent window for the combo is there for the taking. (black lines) By this time, having shot a few balls in succession good touch should have been acquired. My target for the cue ball on this shot is softly into the bottom of the eight ball. Should I hit the nine along the way I will still have shape on the combination. This gives me ample room to negotiate my shot.

This is not to say this is the only way to play for the run out but if I feel I have the speed of the table down this is probably the way I would handle this out.
My decision to go one way or the other will be based on the angle I achieve on the ten.

Tom
 

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