Does this look like a foul to you?

Dudley

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To me that definitely looked like a foul... The cue ball had no hesitation in it.

Last time I hit a follow shot the cue ball had to wait for the spin to take it forward.

I'd be calling a foul if I was in the chair. Not that it matters much, most of the time a ref will say that they had to see the hit to call it. You often have to get a ref before the shot.

I would have called a foul on myself If I was the shooter but I'm dumb like that. Just they way we play in my neck of the woods.

Dud
 

tylerdurden

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If you miss the combo the guy missed after the stole 7, you dont deserve to win a game of one pocket anyway.
 

PreacherRonn

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Mesa, AZ
Enjoyed reading your responses

Enjoyed reading your responses

I can't see the shot as anything but a foul. Snatching up the 7 ball could have been a mistake. But the real blunder was putting it back on Rogers inning, allowing him to shoot it when he was in a trap. The 7 would have been better spotted two innings out so that both players had full knowledge that it was coming.

I disagree that Ray would have shot the same shot that he shot with the 7 hanging. I would have removed the 7 to fight another day.

Thanks for your comments. It was fun watching anyway. Be on the lookout this could be coming to your city soon..... LOL
 

Cowboy Dennis

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To me that definitely looked like a foul... The cue ball had no hesitation in it.

Last time I hit a follow shot the cue ball had to wait for the spin to take it forward.

I'd be calling a foul if I was in the chair. Not that it matters much, most of the time a ref will say that they had to see the hit to call it. You often have to get a ref before the shot.

I would have called a foul on myself If I was the shooter but I'm dumb like that. Just they way we play in my neck of the woods.

Dud

Dudley,

First off, I realize that we're all looking at a shot in two dimensions that actually ocurred in three dimensions so we are all lacking the complete visual of the shot. Add to that the shot is being viewed from above and away from the table at an angle. That changes everyones perception of things and we all see it differently.

That said, why should the cueball necessarily have any hesitation? It went off the side of the 10 ball not through it. If you watch the shot about 30 times you will see the cueball does indeed show a slight hesitation in my opinion, leading me to think that it was hit with a slightly below center hit.

Here's the chronology of the shot. If he had hit straight through the 10 the cueball would have hit the end rail not the side rail:


No Foul.jpg

Realizing that none of us can say for certain, here's the layout as I see it. Yes, the 1 ball did hit the 4 ball before going in. If you look at the red line you will see where the cueball would have hit (approximately) had it been a push shot & double-hit:

no foul2.jpg

All of that aside for a moment, I think any player I've ever known would shoot at his pocket from where the 7 originally was left (before it was removed from the table):

steal the 7.jpg

Let me make this very clear to everybody, I think you are all blind & crazy to call that shot a foul from the view shown:):D:p (not you though Dudley but I would never have let you call a foul on yourself on that shot.)

Dennis
 

Skin

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I looked at it a few times and tried to freeze the frame on the follow through to see if he pushed the cb, but the video wouldn't freeze there. I tried to listen for a double hit but didn't hear one. It's not obviously a foul in the video so I wouldn't have called it. Sometimes, even live, the call is so close on a shot that you just have to let the other guy have it - a tie goes to the runner sort of thing.

Skin
 

Dudley

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San Jose, CA
Dudley,

First off, I realize that we're all looking at a shot in two dimensions that actually ocurred in three dimensions so we are all lacking the complete visual of the shot. Add to that the shot is being viewed from above and away from the table at an angle. That changes everyones perception of things and we all see it differently.

That said, why should the cueball necessarily have any hesitation? It went off the side of the 10 ball not through it. If you watch the shot about 30 times you will see the cueball does indeed show a slight hesitation in my opinion, leading me to think that it was hit with a slightly below center hit.

Here's the chronology of the shot. If he had hit straight through the 10 the cueball would have hit the end rail not the side rail:

Dennis


If he was cutting the 10 as you say then it would have had an arcing hesitation as the follow is taking it forward.

From my perspective the ball went unnaturally straight---> Only possible by pushing through the cue ball. He did it with a very short stroke though so you can't tell except by the way the cue ball traveled.

Dud
 

Cowboy Dennis

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If he was cutting the 10 as you say then it would have had an arcing hesitation as the follow is taking it forward.

From my perspective the ball went unnaturally straight---> Only possible by pushing through the cue ball. He did it with a very short stroke though so you can't tell except by the way the cue ball traveled.

Dud

Dudley,

I'm not certain whether he fouled or not but I believe nobody can call a foul from the posted video. From the video I believe there was no foul.

Take this scenario:

foul or not.jpg

If you shot the 9 in your pocket and the cueball hit the rail by the 14 ball I would say you fouled.

If you shot the 9 in your pocket and the cueball hit the rail by the 12 ball I would say you didn't foul.

But, if it hits in-between the 12 & 14 then you may get a legitimate argument for either scenario. I think that's what happened in this layout, the in-between hit. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter going by the posted video.

Dennis
 

John Brumback

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If that wasn't a pushshot right there,there should never be a push shot fouled called.He pushed, shoved,and flubbed it and he knew it too.If you watch his body language as soon as he did it,he knew it was a foul too.If the opp would have jumped out of his chair,Roger would have let him have the called foul,imo.That was one of the most obvious fouls I have ever seen in my life.Cballs don't go through other balls like that:eek: Not even Efren can do that:rolleyes:

I thought that I have seen it all but stealing that 7ball takes the cake,LOL
John B.
 

Dudley

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San Jose, CA
Dudley,

I'm not certain whether he fouled or not but I believe nobody can call a foul from the posted video. From the video I believe there was no foul.

Take this scenario:

View attachment 5981

If you shot the 9 in your pocket and the cueball hit the rail by the 14 ball I would say you fouled.

If you shot the 9 in your pocket and the cueball hit the rail by the 12 ball I would say you didn't foul.

But, if it hits in-between the 12 & 14 then you may get a legitimate argument for either scenario. I think that's what happened in this layout, the in-between hit. I'd give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter going by the posted video.

Dennis

This is the way we see it differently. With the ball that close there is no way the ball can travel forward in a relatively straight line (with any speed) without pushing the cue ball unless it hesitates for a moment then pulls forward. At a softer speed it is possible to have it start moving almost immediately but it looks very different than it did in the video.

If you back the cue ball up about a foot and shoot the shot you can see the arcing paths that the ball might take by shooting the shot with follow. It will never travel forward without hesitating first. Especially if it has some forward speed to it... the faster the ball ends up moving forward the longer it hesitates.

So if the cue ball takes off at a rapid speed without waiting for the follow to pull it forward, the tip contacted the cue ball more than once...--> foul.


From my perspective of course.

Dud
 

Cowboy Dennis

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This is the way we see it differently. With the ball that close there is no way the ball can travel forward in a relatively straight line (with any speed)
Dud

Dudley,

The cueball & 10 ball are lined up to hit the endrail. After the shot the cueball hit the siderail. It's not difficult to see that the 10 ball was cut at an angle. The cueball did not travel forward in a relatively straight line.

No big deal, we all see things differently. This thread is the very reason that I've never, that I can remember, let anybody watch a shot in a game that I was playing. I've never trusted anyone to know what they were looking at.

Dennis
 

Dudley

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San Jose, CA
Dudley,

The cueball & 10 ball are lined up to hit the endrail. After the shot the cueball hit the siderail. It's not difficult to see that the 10 ball was cut at an angle. The cueball did not travel forward in a relatively straight line.

No big deal, we all see things differently. This thread is the very reason that I've never, that I can remember, let anybody watch a shot in a game that I was playing. I've never trusted anyone to know what they were looking at.

Dennis

I know we won't agree on this but that's OK.

It is possible to foul without the ball traveling in a directly straight line with the stroke used. Cutting the ball only changes the angle the ball travels but it doesn't mean that it is a good hit imo.

You can set up the balls with a .06" gap and strike thru the object ball at different angles and still foul. The angle you strike through the two balls will change what angle the cue ball travels but that won't eliminate the double hit action that happens.

There is a point where the angle allows you to hit it without a foul but in my opinion the shot that we have been discussing is not one of these instances.

Dud
 

Dudley

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San Jose, CA
If that wasn't a pushshot right there,there should never be a push shot fouled called.He pushed, shoved,and flubbed it and he knew it too.If you watch his body language as soon as he did it,he knew it was a foul too.If the opp would have jumped out of his chair,Roger would have let him have the called foul,imo.That was one of the most obvious fouls I have ever seen in my life.Cballs don't go through other balls like that:eek: Not even Efren can do that:rolleyes:

I thought that I have seen it all but stealing that 7ball takes the cake,LOL
John B.

Agreed...:D

Dud
 

8andout

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On purpose or not?

On purpose or not?

I see no reason for wanting to push the cueball, at high speed towards 2 balls that are framing the pocket, unless the combo was not there and he needed to push the 10 ball to a different angle. that would be the "shot of the century" if done on purpose. i think he miss hit the cueball and got a lucky roll on position. i hope i'm wrong.
 

tylerdurden

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If that wasn't a pushshot right there,there should never be a push shot fouled called.He pushed, shoved,and flubbed it and he knew it too.If you watch his body language as soon as he did it,he knew it was a foul too.If the opp would have jumped out of his chair,Roger would have let him have the called foul,imo.That was one of the most obvious fouls I have ever seen in my life.Cballs don't go through other balls like that:eek: Not even Efren can do that:rolleyes:

I thought that I have seen it all but stealing that 7ball takes the cake,LOL
John B.

As usual you are right on the money.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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If that wasn't a pushshot right there,there should never be a push shot fouled called.He pushed, shoved,and flubbed it and he knew it too.If you watch his body language as soon as he did it,he knew it was a foul too.If the opp would have jumped out of his chair,Roger would have let him have the called foul,imo.That was one of the most obvious fouls I have ever seen in my life.Cballs don't go through other balls like that:eek: Not even Efren can do that:rolleyes:

I thought that I have seen it all but stealing that 7ball takes the cake,LOL
John B.

Dear CatfishBreath,

Whatsamatter, the rope break on the tire at the ole fishin' hole?:p Didn't chop enough wood to keep the still goin'?:). I guess you're just plain bored so let me explain something to. If you watch his "body language" as soon as he did it, as you suggest, you will see a person standing on one foot with the other leg stretched out over the corner pocket so he could reach the shot. He takes a couple seconds to return upright, is that the "body language" you saw?

Both commentators said it was a great shot and I didn't notice any giggling between them when they said it. How could an otherwise intelligent person like you (schmoozing now:D) possibly call a foul from that far away & above the table? Is that how you would like it for yourself?

Now go hitch up the team & hit the "back 40".

P.S. I never thought he stole the 7, I thought it was an innocent mistake.

Dennis
 

John Brumback

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Dear CatfishBreath,

Whatsamatter, the rope break on the tire at the ole fishin' hole?:p Didn't chop enough wood to keep the still goin'?:). I guess you're just plain bored so let me explain something to. If you watch his "body language" as soon as he did it, as you suggest, you will see a person standing on one foot with the other leg stretched out over the corner pocket so he could reach the shot. He takes a couple seconds to return upright, is that the "body language" you saw?

Both commentators said it was a great shot and I didn't notice any giggling between them when they said it. How could an otherwise intelligent person like you (schmoozing now:D) possibly call a foul from that far away & above the table? Is that how you would like it for yourself?

Now go hitch up the team & hit the "back 40".

P.S. I never thought he stole the 7, I thought it was an innocent mistake.

Dennis

Ok.And I thought you were a good detective.NOT!:eek: You mean to tell me that you didn't notice the first guilty looking look and move and then the jiggling around to get his big butt off of the table?Go watch it again rustytruck.(I know Rogger and have hung around with him a little,hence the big butt remark) I knew going in this was going to be a tuff task,arguing with you,but....You are wrong on this one. That foul was so bad.... I would have called that one on myself.Like somebody said,they had to be in with each other.No good player would have let that slide.

Have I asked you this before,about the sign in my brothers shop where we paly cornhole and ping pong and stuff ? ( I think I have) It says..."when we are at your house,we will play by your rules" I'm going to make you one anyway and send it to ya.( you need one by that ole GC)I still owe you for that HUGE bottle anyway.Still have some of that left too.It's beer season. Now go think and come back with somethin better.....It's rainin and stormin here so I got all day.:mad::p Have a good day,good buddy.Please take it easy on me:eek: Catfishbreath
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Ok.And I thought you were a good detective.NOT!:eek: You mean to tell me that you didn't notice the first guilty looking look and move and then the jiggling around to get his big butt off of the table?Go watch it again rustytruck.(I know Rogger and have hung around with him a little,hence the big butt remark) I knew going in this was going to be a tuff task,arguing with you,but....You are wrong on this one. That foul was so bad.... I would have called that one on myself.Like somebody said,they had to be in with each other.No good player would have let that slide.

Have I asked you this before,about the sign in my brothers shop where we paly cornhole and ping pong and stuff ? ( I think I have) It says..."when we are at your house,we will play by your rules" I'm going to make you one anyway and send it to ya.( you need one by that ole GC)I still owe you for that HUGE bottle anyway.Still have some of that left too.It's beer season. Now go think and come back with somethin better.....It's rainin and stormin here so I got all day.:mad::p Have a good day,good buddy.Please take it easy on me:eek: Catfishbreath

Dear CatfishBreath,

It's stormin' & rainin' here too. It's as dark as 10 p.m.. I'd be willing to wager with anybody that I've watched the shot more times than anyone here. I've watched the balls (all of them), I've watched the shooter's every move.

I don't know the players and don't care who they are or any other damn thing, I'm basing my opinion on the video only. The shooter "jiggles around" to get off the table because he's standing on one leg and has much weight on his left hand as a result of his stretch. That's why he has to push himself up once before finally standing up, we've all done that, what's the big deal?

You talk about the first "guilty looking look" yet the scoreboard is in the way of his face when I watch the video. I don't see a look at all.

Back to the drawing board for you CFB:p.

Good to hear you opened the bottle:).

Dennis
 
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