Order

Ok,

Hear are the questions regarding the order that good or great players follow when coming to the table playing one pocket against another good or great player.

What is the first and or the most important thing to consider when it's your turn to shoot, and what's the next thing to consider? Probably a really dumb couple of questions, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right and I'd like the definitive answers from some of the really good one pocket minds.

Order of thoughts until you actually shoot please.

Thanks in advance

Jeff sparks said:

Ok,

Hear are the questions regarding the order that good or great players follow when coming to the table playing one pocket against another good or great player.

What is the first and or the most important thing to consider when it's your turn to shoot, and what's the next thing to consider? Probably a really dumb couple of questions, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right and I'd like the definitive answers from some of the really good one pocket minds.

Order of thoughts until you actually shoot please.

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

I try to keep it simple, although it really is not depending on the circumstances.

Can I put myself in a position to win this game with this shot?

Can I lose the game if I shoot it poorly?

Jeff sparks said:

Ok,

Hear are the questions regarding the order that good or great players follow when coming to the table playing one pocket against another good or great player.

What is the first and or the most important thing to consider when it's your turn to shoot, and what's the next thing to consider? Probably a really dumb couple of questions, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right and I'd like the definitive answers from some of the really good one pocket minds.

Order of thoughts until you actually shoot please.

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

No such thing as a dumb question. The only thing dumb about it is if it is never asked!!

Oh and to answer your question: Make sure he's not playing under this name---------> :lol:lol

The Score

The Score

RA said, "what is the score?"

Jeff sparks said:

Ok,

Hear are the questions regarding the order that good or great players follow when coming to the table playing one pocket against another good or great player.

What is the first and or the most important thing to consider when it's your turn to shoot, and what's the next thing to consider? Probably a really dumb couple of questions, but I'm not sure I'm doing it right and I'd like the definitive answers from some of the really good one pocket minds.

Order of thoughts until you actually shoot please.

Thanks in advance

Click to expand...

I'm not disciplined enough to systematize this and stick with it, but as a pure thought experiment, what I think I should be thinking:

1. What's the score and does it affect the degree of caution or aggressiveness I should choose?

2. Does the skill or mindset of my opponent have a bearing on the kind of shot I should choose?

3. If the shot seems obvious, can I find a reasonable alternative without making my opponent start thinking "shot clock"?

4. Of the reasonable choices, what is the upside, downside, and likelihood of execution of each?

5. If I shoot the shot I like best, how will my op respond?

6. After making my choice, is OB or CB the priority?

7. Stand behind CB and see the whole table.

8. Visualize the CB and OB paths. Decide on english/CB strike point.

9. Settle in; relax; breathe; clear my mind and focus only on OB target point until CB makes contact.

10. Rinse and repeat... move my coin. :heh

Maybe my mind is too simple. All I'm thinking about is what am I giving up if I shoot this shot.

I almost always wait for the balls to quit rolling.

I think of my shot options and then I think of what the table will look like after each shot and what my opponent can do to me from there because you could be putting them in a position to trap you worse then you already were.

Excerpt from page 2 of my 3 page One Pocket Philosophy printout ----->


Your shot choice should always be predicated on the correct analysis of several factors: the primary ones being: Table layout, ball score, match score, pocket size, table conditions - and also the One Pocket playing style, knowledge, skill set, heart, and ego tendencies of your opponent....and of course, all shot choices must factor in your own skill set/ability.

So, all of that said, every time that you step to the table (unless you have an obvious ball to make, you have a significant ball-count lead in the game, or you're in a trap) you should be determinedly, unrelentingly, looking to aggressively attack...but if you can’t find a viable offensive shot of any type, then you don’t force the issue – that’s where the smart part comes in…..Instead, you play a suffocating safety/put your opponent in a trap - this most often meaning: leaving your opponent frozen against a ball or balls so that he has nothing but negative or low percentage shot options available to him...and if that’s not possible, then you at least will re-position the ball layout in some way that helps your cause - i.e. move balls as close as possible to your pocket, or move balls from near his pocket or on his side of the table over to your pocket's side of the table, or tie up balls on his side, or open up balls and banking/shooting lanes on your side of the table - and/or leave him facing balls from a snookered position, jacked up, or with an awkward angle...and while doing any of this, if possible always endeavor to leave the cueball frozen on the rail - don‘t under-value this - it severely limits your opponents options and execution when he can only address the top of the cueball...

And let me also stress this...before playing any important safety, it's crucial to analyze precisely, the very best place to leave the cueball in order to leave your opponent in the toughest possible return shot position...that said..before you shoot, whenever this can't be accurately determined from your shooting position..walking over to where you are thinking of leaving the cueball, and correctly envisioning your opponent's responding options is something that you should always do.

- Ghost

!. What can I do to improve my chances to win without selling out.
2. What can i do to stymie my opponent and entice him to make a mistake.

Listen to my gut, more. Take more time. Always take more and more time. Double check everything and take more time...

what is a good shot to shoot that gives me the best chance of winning without my opponent thinking i play better than the spot. i dont want to shoot a complex shot and have my opponent quit when i can win every nickel in his pocket if i play it right.

so basically i never shoot a shot my opponent cant make.

beatle said:

what is a good shot to shoot that gives me the best chance of winning without my opponent thinking i play better than the spot. i dont want to shoot a complex shot and have my opponent quit when i can win every nickel in his pocket if i play it right.

so basically i never shoot a shot my opponent cant make.

Click to expand...

This is good. This ties into what I was saying. When you are stalling you hurry up and shoot usually, because you know that players hate slow play, and you do not want them to become disgruntled. If you are not careful you will get into a habit of shooting too fast, even when you are playing for keeps. I think Scott shoots too fast sometimes. Play more like Alex is my motto...

Thanks guys for your thoughts. Interesting how different people think about their shot options.


Personally I'm looking hard for big offense when it's my turn, make balls, move balls to favor me, rearrange the furniture if possible to my side, create a jail break from around his pocket towards mine.

If none of that's available, I'm trying to find the perfect spot to lay the CB to rest, a place where it's going to be difficult for him to return the favor or move any of the balls that favor me, while trying to move a single ball that favors him.

This is how I'm trying to do it lately, but I still have trouble with the risk vs. reward shots. My mind easily reverts to the old days when the shot I'm facing now was a semi-hanger then, and I think I can still execute it with ease...... NOT! I still want to let my opponent know I will shoot at my hole, especially with the game in the balance! It backfires now!!! I miss and he thinks I'm a gopher, which of course, I am!

I'm adjusting slowly to the skill set I have now and it's becoming easier to judge which and what I can actually execute properly, but it's hard to kill that gopher in me.

Thanks again for your thoughts

Jeff

jeff this came from a post by onepockethacker
..........
Its not all about what ball can I make right now.. its about what shot can I do that will put me in the best position to win the game..

Obviously when I have an open shot I try to stay positive and think positively, all along with playing the score as i'm running balls. As you run balls you will constantly find yourself confronted with decisions on what ball to shoot that will give you the best chance of winning, whether it be an easy shot to limit your ball production or a tough shot to increase your ball running production, but at the same time always playing a good cue ball. If i'm confronted with a threatening position I always look to leave distance and try to leave the cue ball close to the rail as my chief ally's, unless the position precludes me from doing that, then I use my intelligence at the table to try and figure a way out which is very hard to describe, only experience will give you the best answers and we all have our own experience on the table. Experience will give you knowledge, and knowledge is power.

Of course you should factor in table conditions and your opponents speed and preference of shots. In situations where you're undecided which option to choose lean toward the option that you feel your opponent won't like because of his inabilities.

And finally, understand your ability as the game progresses, understand that during the course of a game or match your speed may fluctuate, this happens more often as we age and you must program your self to make the necessary adjustments in order to survive.

Dr. Bill

One Pocket Ghost said:

Excerpt from page 2 of my 3 page One Pocket Philosophy printout ----->


Your shot choice should always be predicated on the correct analysis of several factors: the primary ones being: Table layout, ball score, match score, pocket size, table conditions - and also the One Pocket playing style, knowledge, skill set, heart, and ego tendencies of your opponent....and of course, all shot choices must factor in your own skill set/ability.

So, all of that said, every time that you step to the table (unless you have an obvious ball to make, you have a significant ball-count lead in the game, or you're in a trap) you should be determinedly, unrelentingly, looking to aggressively attack...but if you can’t find a viable offensive shot of any type, then you don’t force the issue – that’s where the smart part comes in…..Instead, you play a suffocating safety/put your opponent in a trap - this most often meaning: leaving your opponent frozen against a ball or balls so that he has nothing but negative or low percentage shot options available to him...and if that’s not possible, then you at least will re-position the ball layout in some way that helps your cause - i.e. move balls as close as possible to your pocket, or move balls from near his pocket or on his side of the table over to your pocket's side of the table, or tie up balls on his side, or open up balls and banking/shooting lanes on your side of the table - and/or leave him facing balls from a snookered position, jacked up, or with an awkward angle...and while doing any of this, if possible always endeavor to leave the cueball frozen on the rail - don‘t under-value this - it severely limits your opponents options and execution when he can only address the top of the cueball...

And let me also stress this...before playing any important safety, it's crucial to analyze precisely, the very best place to leave the cueball in order to leave your opponent in the toughest possible return shot position...that said..before you shoot, whenever this can't be accurately determined from your shooting position..walking over to where you are thinking of leaving the cueball, and correctly envisioning your opponent's responding options is something that you should always do.

- Ghost

Click to expand...

Wow,
That's a lot to mull over every time you go to the table!

So is this why it takes Pagulayan several minutes to shoot all but the simplest shots? Is he looking over every conceivable offensive and defensive shot that is available on every turn at the table, and when he falls down on a shot, then gets up, then falls down on another, gets up, then another, and so on and on it goes, is that just his way of double checking the angle for CB control and successfully executing the shot? Or is it part stall or snake charming, and not really necessary? His pre-shot routine seems meticulously slow.

Then conversely, does Frost need to take more time, or does his mind just work faster on the analysis of all the shots available, or does he just pick the first one he likes and shoots it? Because he plays much faster than most players.

Jeff sparks said:

Wow,
That's a lot to mull over every time you go to the table!

So is this why it takes Pagulayan several minutes to shoot all but the simplest shots? Is he looking over every conceivable offensive and defensive shot that is available on every turn at the table, and when he falls down on a shot, then gets up, then falls down on another, gets up, then another, and so on and on it goes, is that just his way of double checking the angle for CB control and successfully executing the shot? Or is it part stall or snake charming, and not really necessary? His pre-shot routine seems meticulously slow.

Then conversely, does Frost need to take more time, or does his mind just work faster on the analysis of all the shots available, or does he just pick the first one he likes and shoots it? Because he plays much faster than most players.

Click to expand...

Sometimes Alex does seem to grandstand for lookers-on, but sometimes I think he also gets down on balls to see how he feels about the shot (angle, speed, CB, stuff like that.) I think that Alex would say that he is not necessarily a "natural" one pocket practitioner, but rather that he applies his (considerable!) strengths to leverage the discipline in his favor.

My take on Frost is that he calculates a table 2-3 times as fast as anyone I've ever witnessed. Many times he will shoot a heady shot in seconds that would take *any* other player a half-minute and more to come up with. Part of it is that he is a fast, rhythm player; the other part is that he has played a LOT of high-pressure, high-stakes one pocket. While a situation might look novel to us, there are patterns that present themselves over time.