2016 dcc

jrhendy · Feb 4, 2016

12squared said:
Taken from a series of articles:

There were 375 players in the 9-ball Banks event.
There were 397 players in the One Pocket event.
There was a record 406 entries in the DCC 9-Ball event.

Hope this helps.

Greg told me there were approx 490 in the banks and I also heard the same thing from some other sources. Maybe the payout would help determine the number.

Scrzbill · Feb 4, 2016

NH Steve said:
Yes the hotel should provide a shuttle, but based on other costs for service precedents, can you imagine what they would charge, lol?

I rented a car. One, I had a very bad experience in Houston and wanted my own food as much as possible and two, a cab ride to the hotel and back would be at least $50. each way. Double that with John arriving at a different time, so splitting the car with John cost us about $15 dollars extra a piece. It was a price I was willing to pay to get my own food. If I go next year, I will gladly shuttle people to the airport for a reasonable price that would be compatible with any charge the hotel would have, lol.
I am torn about going again. It is a long haul for me with my back and those plane seats. My second flight I had to sit in a very cramped seat and had to be wheel chaired off. It took me about four days to recover from the flights home. My other problem with the derby is getting action. There are no tables. The guys from Chicago lock up the back corner table each year. Scooter usually ties up a table leaving two or three tables for the rest of us.
If it wasn't to watch Alex play in the finals again this year, I don't know if the trip would have been worth it. His match against Efren got him into his defensive mode and from there it was all over. I think the first game he played wit Efren, he needed eight. His first shot was a 200 mph bank shot that was lying on the top rail a few inches from the pocket. John said he would never get out from there and a few minutes later he is shooting for ball number seven. It was worth the trip it to watch his demolition in the finals.
It's not the same sitting at home watching it on the TV screen.

NH Steve · Feb 4, 2016

2016 dcc

The tournament desk on site told me there were 475 in banks and I got the impression they had turn some people away.. They also told me 397 in one pocket!!

LSJohn · Feb 4, 2016

LSJohn said:
Thanks.

I was under the impression that each of the divisions had been over 400 entries at one time or another, but I've recently seen the claim that at least one of the three main divisions set a Derby record this year.

One reason I wanted to know was to attempt to calculate the total prize fund IF buy-back money was included. I was told at Derby by someone we would expect to know that the buy-back money all went to Diamond. I'll try to do some figuring based upon these numbers and post whatever I find.

Banks entry fee $110

375 entrants X $110 = $41,500

Prize fund $57,400 (represents 318 buy-backs @ $50)

So, buy-back money went into prize fund, not to Diamond.
==========

One Pocket entry fee $135

397 entrants X $135 = $53,595

Prize fund $64,375 (represents 145 buy-backs @$75 -- seems low)
===========

9 Ball entry fee $160

406 entrants X $160 = $64,960

Prize fund $85,900 (represents 210 buy-backs @ $100 + $60 more-- seems low, and where the hell does 60 dollars come from?)

Bottom line, inconclusive, but some of the buy-back money seems to me to be missing from 1P and 9 Ball.

==========

On a related subject, do any of you know or have reason to think you have a good guess about how Diamond comes out financially on the Derby each year? I have always assumed that it was a small loser for them, but the same seemingly credible source that told me that Diamond got the buy-back money said Diamond makes a killing.

LSJohn · Feb 4, 2016

LSJohn said:
Banks entry fee $110

375 entrants X $110 = $41,500

Prize fund $57,400 (represents 318 buy-backs @ $50)

So, buy-back money went into prize fund, not to Diamond.
==========

One Pocket entry fee $135

397 entrants X $135 = $53,595

Prize fund $64,375 (represents 145 buy-backs @$75 -- seems low)
===========

9 Ball entry fee $160

406 entrants X $160 = $64,960

Prize fund $85,900 (represents 210 buy-backs @ $100 + $60 more-- seems low, and where the hell does 60 dollars come from?)

Bottom line, inconclusive, but some of the buy-back money seems to me to be missing from 1P and 9 Ball.

==========

On a related subject, do any of you know or have reason to think you have a good guess about how Diamond comes out financially on the Derby each year? I have always assumed that it was a small loser for them, but the same seemingly credible source that told me that Diamond got the buy-back money said Diamond makes a killing.

Ah, I see above that the numbers for entrants I was using were probably too low. If that's the case, I think it's reasonable to assume that at least a chunk of buy-back money does not flow to the prize fund. If that's the case, I think I need to figure I was dead wrong assuming Greg was losing money on the Derby.

12squared · Feb 4, 2016

jrhendy said:
Greg told me there were approx 490 in the banks and I also heard the same thing from some other sources. Maybe the payout would help determine the number.

The article I found on AZ Billiards could have had an error, could very well have bee 475 in the banks. This makes sense because in the 2 other times I went to DCC banks always had the most entries because it was the smallest entry fee, you get to play w/champions and your pass is good for the whole event.

****** NOTE: I just read the very first article on day one of the Banks, and they say there were 475, so you guys were right ******** (I first read the article on day 5 which stated 375)

The record that was sent was the 406 in 9-ball, previous year it was jut over 300 so like a 25% increase.

Again, feel free to research the articles on AZ Billiards as tat's where I got the info.

Dave

John Brumback · Feb 4, 2016

475 in the banks. John B.

Billy Jackets · Feb 4, 2016

LSJohn said:
Ah, I see above that the numbers for entrants I was using were probably too low. If that's the case, I think it's reasonable to assume that at least a chunk of buy-back money does not flow to the prize fund. If that's the case, I think I need to figure I was dead wrong assuming Greg was losing money on the Derby.

I for one, hope they keep making enough money to have it for many years to come.
When you think of how much money they have to put out up front hoping enough people show up, it would be unamerican to not make money off the venue.
They should ask Greg to run the Us Open.
If it even exists this year.

LSJohn · Feb 4, 2016

Billy Jackets said:
I for one, hope they keep making enough money to have it for many years to come.
When you think of how much money they have to put out up front hoping enough people show up, it would be unamerican to not make money off the venue.
They should ask Greg to run the Us Open.
If it even exists this year.

I couldn't agree more. I didn't think about the likelihood that my questioning and figuring could imply that I'd resent Diamond making money. I just had looked at the monumental effort and cost of putting it on and always assumed that the coin-op table-time and the $10 registration fees wouldn't even come close to covering it. I was quite surprised when told Greg was doing very well with it.

Thanks for giving me a nudge to clarify.

gulfportdoc · Feb 4, 2016

LSJohn said:
Ah, I see above that the numbers for entrants I was using were probably too low. If that's the case, I think it's reasonable to assume that at least a chunk of buy-back money does not flow to the prize fund. If that's the case, I think I need to figure I was dead wrong assuming Greg was losing money on the Derby.

I've never seen an accounting. But it's hard for me to imagine how Diamond makes any profit from the event itself. There may be some vendor money, although Greg may have to share some of that with the facility. Presumably the facility halls for the actual pool tournament are comped, providing that enough hotel rooms are rented.

However the DCC surely directs a lot of public attention to Diamond Billiard products. And whatever amount ends up in the red part of the balance sheet is written off as advertising expenses. Diamond's labor costs are held down due to the proximity of their factory, but it is surely a significant expense.

So I would be surprised if the DCC tournament provides any direct income to Diamond, but that it is worth it for the advertising and public relations value. Otherwise they could not afford to keep having the events.

~Doc

NH Steve · Feb 4, 2016

2016 dcc

Settle down guys -- buy back money goes toward the all around.

LSJohn · Feb 4, 2016

gulfportdoc said:
So I would be surprised if the DCC tournament provides any direct income to Diamond, but that it is worth it for the advertising and public relations value. Otherwise they could not afford to keep having the events.

~Doc

That's what I always assumed, but the numbers I'm coming up with figuring entry fees and buy-backs + advertised added money implies otherwise. I was told that Harrah's added substantial money, but I don't know whether that might be calculated before or after anything Harrah's might charge Greg. I don't think I should say who told me about the substantial amounts Diamond earns on it in case he's wrong, but he's someone we'd all be inclined to figure he knew.

Like Jackets said above, I hope Greg does do well with it.

kollegedave · Feb 5, 2016

jrhendy said:
Great to meet you Dave. It seemed busy as usual to me. With all its downside, it is still the only game in town to see most of the best players in the world and it seems like we are getting more players from new parts of the world every year.

John,

It was great fun to meet you as well. He probably deserves his own thread, but I would like to thank Chicago Mike for putting the meeting together.

On the AZ forums, some people posted that the numbers were up in all the events. This is great news. Someone suggested that since I have been for the last 3 years, I might be getting used to the number of people...could be.

However, so many good things in pool don't last. I have a hard time believing that the end of the DCC is not closer then we think. Of course, I hope I am wrong. It does seem to be the best thing going in pool right now...by far.

kollegedave

straightback · Feb 5, 2016

kollegedave said:
John,

It was great fun to meet you as well. He probably deserves his own thread, but I would like to thank Chicago Mike for putting the meeting together.

On the AZ forums, some people posted that the numbers were up in all the events. This is great news. Someone suggested that since I have been for the last 3 years, I might be getting used to the number of people...could be.

However, so many good things in pool don't last. I have a hard time believing that the end of the DCC is not closer then we think. Of course, I hope I am wrong. It does seem to be the best thing going in pool right now...by far.

kollegedave

Dave, I kind of think the opposite - it has been going since '98 and I seriously doubt they would continue at a loss for two decades. I do see them moving from the casino, though, which feels too commercial and is expensive. I liked the close, homey, even gritty feel of the old Executive Inn that meshed with our knockabout subculture.

Scrzbill · Feb 5, 2016

straightback said:
Dave, I kind of think the opposite - it has been going since '98 and I seriously doubt they would continue at a loss for two decades. I do see them moving from the casino, though, which feels too commercial and is expensive. I liked the close, homey, even gritty feel of the old Executive Inn that meshed with our knockabout subculture.

Best thing about the executive was the way you could watch the matches. Bleacher seats that allowed you to be above the tables and you didn't have to stand all day. Drawback was that awful dining that they had even though I can say the food was authentic southern, over cooked and fried. :lol

2016 dcc

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