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Old 10-03-2016, 09:13 AM
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Tom Wirth Tom Wirth is offline
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Default Tight pockets vs. Loose

I started a conversation with Joey A. ( a great guy and I hope I have the opportunity to commentate a match with him again ) while doing commentary on one of the matches at Lacy's. I asked him; Do you feel tight pockets favor the shooter or do they favor the mover? We had a vigorous discussion and I would like to know what you think about this topic.

It is my contention that tight pockets favor the shooter. I explained my reasoning then and in this thread I will share it again after I have heard yours. Please don't simply offer an opinion without explaining your conclusion. It's the "why" that I will find interesting. Maybe you can convince me to change my mind, but I doubt it.

Thanks,

Tom
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:36 AM
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cincy_kid cincy_kid is offline
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In my opinion, tight pockets favor the mover. The reason I feel this is way is because with tighter pockets you are going to have more misses. It doesn't matter if the player is a good shooter or a poor one, he will miss more with tighter pockets.

Now, when you know there will be more misses by both players, it opens up an advantage for the player who moves the balls better, towards their hole and gets the first opportunity to shoot at their hole.

If the pockets were loose, the better shooter is going to run out a majority of the time but when they are tight, not so much, therefore giving the advantage to the tactician who is setting up the table to their advantage.

my 2 cents...
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:55 AM
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jrhendy jrhendy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
I started a conversation with Joey A. ( a great guy and I hope I have the opportunity to commentate a match with him again ) while doing commentary on one of the matches at Lacy's. I asked him; Do you feel tight pockets favor the shooter or do they favor the mover? We had a vigorous discussion and I would like to know what you think about this topic.

It is my contention that tight pockets favor the shooter. I explained my reasoning then and in this thread I will share it again after I have heard yours. Please don't simply offer an opinion without explaining your conclusion. It's the "why" that I will find interesting. Maybe you can convince me to change my mind, but I doubt it.

Thanks,

Tom
I believe there is a slight edge to the mover because you may have an opportunity to 'gather' balls near your pocket while sending the cue ball down table because the shooter is less likely to fire at his hole on tight pockets with easy shots near his opponents pocket if he misses. You also should outmove him around the stack and get the first offensive shot at your pocket.

This turns the shooter into more of a mover which is not his strength. If you can turn a shooter into a wannabe mover, you should have the best of it.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:18 AM
DickP DickP is offline
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It seems like tight pockets make it easier for both players to find a safe harbor for the cue ball - far easier to leave yourself safe when no shot at distance is a sure thing...
I think a "mover"s skills are not at a premium with tight pockets. Isn't it a distinguishing trait of "movers" that they put a premium on keeping pressure on their pocket and hiding the cueball? If so, the tighter the pocket, the harder to maintain effective threats near it, and the easier to get out of traps.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:24 AM
jtompilot jtompilot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Wirth View Post
I started a conversation with Joey A. ( a great guy and I hope I have the opportunity to commentate a match with him again ) while doing commentary on one of the matches at Lacy's. I asked him; Do you feel tight pockets favor the shooter or do they favor the mover? We had a vigorous discussion and I would like to know what you think about this topic.

It is my contention that tight pockets favor the shooter. I explained my reasoning then and in this thread I will share it again after I have heard yours. Please don't simply offer an opinion without explaining your conclusion. It's the "why" that I will find interesting. Maybe you can convince me to change my mind, but I doubt it.

Thanks,

Tom
Joey asked me about that after your conversation. I would rather play a champion on a tight pocket table and here's my reasoning.

Let's look at 9 ball or straight pool. The champions can run rack after rack after rack and never miss on a 5" pocket. Mr. 400 won't run 50 balls on a 4 1/8 pocket table. I've played lots of players much better than me and they will go for their hole on that tight table and miss more often than normal. That has given many chances that I would not normally have. I refuse to play a champion or straight shooter on anything larger than 4 1/2" pockets.
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Old 10-03-2016, 10:55 AM
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These are all good points to consider. Please keep them coming. I would like to here opinions from some of you who consider yourselves more of a shooter.

Do you feel you have a better chance against movers when playing on loose tables?

Tom
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:27 AM
TomRoden TomRoden is offline
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Default I'm with the majority.

I think the tighter pockets would benefit the mover. To echo a few members, moving balls to your zone is invaluable. Great question.
Tom, we have a friend in common,Nick Bewley. I've known Nicky since he was 12.
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Old 10-03-2016, 12:43 PM
beatle beatle is offline
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it is the fast cloth that has changed things not the pockets. with super fast cloth you can get position too easily. that hurts the weaker player and the thinking player as the great shooters get out so easily.

tight pockets ruined the game for me as i always believed part of the game was cheating the pocket to get position and that took a whole different skill to use it effectively.

all that said i would rather play a great player getting a spot from him with either very tight pockets or very loose pockets not in between. as with the tight pockets i get extra shots to win. and with the super easy ones i can get out almost as easy as him.


as far as nine ball goes tight pockets make the top players unbeatable.
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Old 10-03-2016, 01:51 PM
1pwannabe 1pwannabe is offline
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There may be a psychological advantage for the shooter that helps with the confidence game that's critical to winning. If the mover outmoves the shooter, gets a chance to shoot at his hole, and then hangs it most of the time, that might take a toll on his mental game.

Whereas the shooter isn't too fazed because they still make the ball most of the time, and they get position more often to get a few balls at a time. When I watched Shannon Daulton shoot on that insanely tight $ table at the Derby, he made it look easy and rarely missed. All the other regular guys that played on that table struggled far more and over time they missed more and more.
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Old 10-03-2016, 02:17 PM
Frank Almanza Frank Almanza is offline
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Tight pockets take away a good portion of the game away form the shooter.
There are many situations where you can advance a ball toward your hole and leave your opponent at the other end of the table even though you're giving up a shot to his hole but with a bit of distance. We do this a lot when we can position a ball near our hole. You're giving up a shot that has no position for him if he pockets that ball but costly if he misses it. He's playing for one ball, and if he makes it he hopes to advance another ball or maybe playing to bank another one.

A good ball striker will reconsider shooting at these types of balls with tight pockets but with bigger pockets he will take his chances. Situation like this gives the mover an extra chance for offensive to his hole.

At our monthly tournament at the Hard Times in Bellflower the feature table has very tight pockets and I find myself feeling comfortable in leaving those types of long shots to good shooters. I'm talking about the type of shots that will sell out a lot if missed. Even good shooters like Santos Sambajon, who is as good as they come in regards to pocketing balls, will shy away from many of these shots. So in this respect I say that tight pockets move the edge over slightly to the mover.
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